N-G-W.com Killed Your Crop? Now What? Post observations/efforts at recovery here.

[ImaginaryFriend]

On 9/11/2010, U.G.U posted this thread documenting the presence of Diisobutyl phthalate in hose distributed/sold by N-W-G.com. This chemical is used as a plasticiser used in flexible PVC--the translucent blue hose, or now in the increasingly available black that plumbs so many gardens.

This is the printed advertisement on the side of the toxic pipe:

This agent off gasses toxins that are then taken up by the plant during respiration. The plant yellows and dwindles. A common report is that growers afflicted by this pipe end up with only 20% or less of their expected yield, often popcorn bud.

This is a shot of a typical leaf:

Many growers first mistake this for a nutrient deficiency (Mag, sometimes N) then some kind of lockout, then some kind of root disease. And the roots do often look quite shitty in hydro grows plumbed by this crap hose.

Here's a typical plant suffering from this toxicity:

The question becomes: Now that you know what you've got going on, what do you do?

The hose should be removed not only from the system but from the environment. It off gasses, so even if it's not attached, it will continue to damage your plants if it shares common air space.

In his original thread, U.G.U posted (post 138) these observations:

This is how mine recovered after I removed the hose. Room 1 got the hose changed on day 1 flower I yeiled 8.5lbs off 10k. room 2 had 2 weeks of no tube and of veg before flower yeilded 9.5lbs off 10k and room 3 had an entire month of no tube and veg I yielded 10.5 off of 9k. One thing I have to tell you all rooms seeded room 1 was bad, 2 half as bad, and 3 hardly any. One of our good friends swapped his out 30 days into flower he had 6k and got 3.75lbs. Our other friend same story 30 days in flower before he changed it got 2.5lbs off of 4k. But it was better than if they had left it the whole time. Our best room with the tube all the way through was 6oz a light. Worst was 4 oz a light.

He took the time to share in more with me earlier today:

Really it is better to start over unless your plants are still in veg and savable. If you are in flower you are pretty much toast. It takes a full 30 days in veg to come out of it. with really reduced light. And even then I had every stain I grew herm. even the one that had the full 30 days in veg prior to flipping. the 1st batch had 1 week recovery before flower. They were covered in seeds 10 to a gram. 2nd run had 2 week recovery it had about half the seeds and the 3rd had a month it had 1/4 the seeds. ...

If you skipped the above quote, please note that all of the plants that U.G.U finished--even the one's not already in flower, morphed to HERMAPHRODITES after being exposed to the off-gassing.

Post 143, U.G.U:

Some strain are way more hardy than others. We had at least 30 different strains go into the different rooms. some could not even get past 8 inches in veg before they looked so bad you had to pull them. others you could get all the way through veg(sorta) and die within 30 days of flower. And the one that did the best (6oz a light) we got 30 days into flower before any real bad yellowing. We were able to keep them some what green by doubling the nutes and doing foliar sprays.

snoopytime, post#97 in U.G.U's warning thread:

I changed mine out & the yellowing has stopped progressing, but UGU said they take 30 DAYS to recover from exposure which seems about right as all my plants are still frozen - they haven't grown a millimeter since I replaced that NGW shit on saturday. But, they had all frozen before I ripped it out.

Some people have considered dropping light (bilbo's thread here) noting that the damage was most extreme where the light was most intense.

Based on U.G.U's observation that he was able to overfeed his girls to keep them a bit more lively, my initial feeling is that an effective protocol might be:

1. Clean out the room of the shit pipe.
2. Flush to get rid of any residual shit.
3. Get back to growing. Hit them with light and moderate nute levels.

KEEP IN MIND THEY ARE LIKELY TO HERMI!

That said, I'm in coco now after repeatedly loosing my rDWCs to this shit pipe... so I can't be the one to try it.

Best of luck out there.

Feel free to post to this thread if you have any success (or failures)...

 

[snoopytime]

Hey great idea to start this thread. People may be reading this for months to come that just happen to google it next year lol (but not funny). I can say for sure some strains get hit hard and some brush it off 50%. My strain that brushed it off the most was K-Train - it powered thru stretch and grew some small clenched fist sized nugs, all the while slowly dropping fan leaves but it still cranked out an oz a plant which is a lot in my experience with NGW hose.

The worst was Bananna OG - that fucker shocked out like it was tazed and turned into a 14 inch shit stick with yellow scarecrow hair. The main cola is the size of a guatemalan dime.

But back to recovery, I can FOR SURE see new green growth. I cut my CO2 off as UGU suggested until yesterday. Now that I see new white roots popping out everywhere, and new vibrant lime green growth, I put my CO2 back on in the flower room to help these poor bastards catch up as much as possible.

My recent observations indicate something interesting, even though growth had been paralyzed, natures clock was still a' tickin. That is to say, all my plants that got NGW gassed their first week or two *missed the stretch* but now that they snapped out of it, they started growing again where they were at chronologically

So although they didnt stretch at all, they are not just starting to stretch, they are throwing up their last big fans and pistils are coming out now.

 

[bilbobonger]

Glad to hear things are lookin up snoopytime. Yeah, definitely seems to affect some strains more than others. Might of had something to do with the fact that I was using soil as apposed to coco, but my masta kush plants seemed to have powered through. Shit yield, just over an elbow outa two thousand watt lights. Only got two ounces outa the headbands though.

 

[snoopytime]

As a rough estimate from my experience, heres what you should do:

Remove all hose from anywhere in the house.
Flush and fill with regular nutes and some bennes or sterilizing agent of your choice to help the thrashed roots fight off yuck since they cant do it themselves yet maybe.
Back lights way off & shut off CO2.
Go to normally aspirated as in vent pulling clean air in the room.
Expect the only change for the first week to be: No NEW Yellowing.
2nd week should start seeing some new green popping out. You can clearly see the timeline looking at fanleaves going down the stem after the 2nd week. The lower leaves that grew up in diisobutyl phthalate will be completely washed out with little to no green. The middle leaves will have green 1st half closest to the petiole, the outside half that grew up in shit will be washed out. The topmost newest leaves will be solid green. See attached pic:

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Have you guys experienced the hermaphrodite tendency noted by U.G.U?

If you are in a med state, with available quality clones, not into flower yet, and this hermi problem is pretty consistent, it might make better sense to chop, clean, and start fresh and new...

 

[Tr33]

This really makes me wonder about that POS Easy Cloner 120 I bought, this thing stinks like new plastic and I have had 20% success rate as compared to my Botanicare 165 cloner where I get 100% strike rate every single time since I first opend the box.
I'm really pissed that I spent $250US on this pos easy clone 120 and it stinks to high heaven of this plastic scent off gassing. Every time I open it to check root I get a face full of smelly fumes.

 

[bilbobonger]

Have you guys experienced the hermaphrodite tendency noted by U.G.U?

Haven't been working with seeds, so I don't know about the hermis, but my masta kush clones started spitting out lots of bananas late in the game... They did the same thing in several other locations though, so I think it might of had more to do with the strain/cut than anything else.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Bilbo, are you monocropping, or do you have other genetics in the effected area?

If you do, are they maintaining true female characteristics, or throwing nanners too?

 

[bilbobonger]

Bilbo, are you monocropping, or do you have other genetics in the effected area?

If you do, are they maintaining true female characteristics, or throwing nanners too?

Yup, nothin but jacks this time around. Don't know about the nanners yet, still vegging. Probably about ready to flip the lights, but I want em to snap outa their funk first.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Hope they stay girls for you!

Best of luck.

 

[bilbobonger]

Hope they stay girls for you!

Best of luck.

Thanks ImaginaryFriend. This cut's been going around my circle here for a while now. Never seen any bananas on em before, so if I get some, we'll no why.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

THCV cropped through the NGW toxicty reported in U.G.U's original thread here. Some of his weaker strains were slayed but his bubba cross made it through:

No seeding.

Good quality.

Underweight.

I guess some of that's kinda good...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Well,

I have some shit news to report.

In my current grow I had five feet of this hose total, and only two of it inside the panda tent.

My 'ladies' are one week into flower, and suddenly a female cut that has been female for four years is suddenly a male. One female pre-flower on the whole plant.

I have no signs of yellowing at all. Plant growth has not been delayed, and has met my expectations.

But now I'm growing males.

So my new advice is:

Cut And Run Bitches... Cut And Run. Don't wait to find out how fucked you might be. Do something else and fast.

EDIT: It's only fair to say that I got a really shit -- but female -- yield of this genetic running a RDWC with it as primary feed lines... Who the fuck knows why or how they did a total flip flop on me.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Well,

I have some better news to report.

I may be a retard that can't tell male preflowers from female,

or,

I may have begged enough.

But today showed female preflowers.

So, maybe bitches, you should ride this one out...