Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[HempKat]

I remember knowing someone that felt it was best to keep the night/day temps very close and he had killer yields... I'll try 2 get ahold of him n see why he thinks this.

I think the budrot thing is that when the temp drops, if there is moisture in the air, colder temps will cause it to condense faster, course god proper ventilation could solve this unless you are like in the tropics...

Yeah ventilation is the key to avoiding bud rot but high enough humidity is part of the cause. Anything above 65% you need to be careful of or better yet avoid. That's why it's recommended not to let the humidity get much above 50-55%. Your friend's temps were good for lights on and you don't have to have that big change in temp to get resin to form, it's just believed that the temp drop at night helps it to form better. Although this isn't exactly proven but rather theory, at least when I first read about it.

I think your friend's yields was more a matter of good food and care then it was a factor of minimal temp fluctuations.

 

[Japanfreakier]

nature loves fem seeds, if it didn't cannabis wouldn't have the ability.

 

[HempKat]

I see in your above post you changed your opinion from lacking vigor etc to more expensive or produce nanners. Although you may be right about the being more expensive...

You stated that fem seeds produce half ass nothings, and lack the vigor of standard seeds....



I was just pointing out that your quite wrong...

I think I showed more then enough evidence to illustrate that fem seeds are indeed vigorous and apparently lack nothing but ball sacks...

Well no actually what you should proved that it's possible for fem seeds to be vigorous and not produce nanners but just because one batch of seeds gave you a good crop doesn't mean that all feminized seed is good. Just like one batch not showing vigor and producing nanners doesn't mean that all feminized seed is bad.

Really what you proved was that in a good environment with good care feminized seeds can produce very respectable yields. You don't get results like you got without knowing what you're doing. My contention has been though that when you know how to grow properly alot of the advantages of feminized seed become a moot point because you'll likely get as good a result from a standard non feniminzed seed of the same strain. I'd be more interested in hearing how feminized seed helped you in particular? What did they actually save you and was it worth the extra cost in your opinion?

 

[HempKat]

nature loves fem seeds, if it didn't cannabis wouldn't have the ability.

Hey there was someone here talking about a small Hempy Bucket grow but I forget who it was. Anyway if you're still following this thread, this guy above JapanFreakier is familiar with that exact type of setup and gets very impressive results with it. So I'd recommend you pick his brain for advice if he's willing to pass on what he knows?

 

[blazeoneup]

Well no actually what you should proved that it's possible for fem seeds to be vigorous and not produce nanners but just because one batch of seeds gave you a good crop doesn't mean that all feminized seed is good. Just like one batch not showing vigor and producing nanners doesn't mean that all feminized seed is bad.

Really what you proved was that in a good environment with good care feminized seeds can produce very respectable yields. You don't get results like you got without knowing what you're doing. My contention has been though that when you know how to grow properly alot of the advantages of feminized seed become a moot point because you'll likely get as good a result from a standard non feniminzed seed of the same strain. I'd be more interested in hearing how feminized seed helped you in particular? What did they actually save you and was it worth the extra cost in your opinion?

I agree with your point. But the same goes for standard beans as well. One batch may not be equal to the next and this is life there is no perfection so good come with the bad and thats fem or standard seeds IMHO.

At the time that I done that specific grow, I had to tear down a grow and relocate and start back over. No moms I did have some standard beans of various strains though.

Knowing that I am running rdwc (recirculating deep water culture) I was worried about popping standard seeds into the system and end up with my typical female to male ratio which at that time was roughly 80% female to male ratio from my personal experience with standard beans.

So 12 plants end up with 2 males that would leave me with 2 empty buckets on the system and I wasnt trying to deal with that I had been without a crop for quite a while at the time and needed a good run to get me back on track. I decided fem seeds were my best option at the time, (no one to get cuts from) so I purchased 30 fem seeds 10 beans of 3 strains.

I popped those beans took the 12 best looking plants put them into the system, Put the other 18 in soil. In the end I ended up getting no males no nanna's perfect sensimilia end product, I averaged 2.1 lbs per 1k and was very pleased with the results. The other 18 produced another 1.5-1.7 per light in soil.

Out of the 30 beans I ended up 30 nice females and quite honestly there was very little variation in them, I got 3 phenotypes from the mazar 2 pheno types from the blueberry and the strawberry cough well they were pretty much one in the same.

Overall I was very pleased with the outcome, and If I ever get in a position where I needed females only from beans I'd surely grab some fem seeds.

My opinion on fem seeds, Based on the run I posted about above and 2-3 other runs using them as well, I believe fem seeds are perfectly good and worth the extra penny.

I also think that people who have had bad experiences with fem seeds, Should blame the breeder not the method/technique. Breeder error is what results in bad beans.

Hermie beans from fem seed, I'd have to believe the strain has hermie tendencies regardless and if you were to run standard beans of the same strain you would end up with some hermies in there as well..

I think the technique/method for fem seeds does work and works well, giving that it was applied correctly and also that the strain used does not have hermie tendencies.

 

[HempKat]

I agree with your point. But the same goes for standard beans as well. One batch may not be equal to the next and this is life there is no perfection so good come with the bad and thats fem or standard seeds IMHO.

At the time that I done that specific grow, I had to tear down a grow and relocate and start back over. No moms I did have some standard beans of various strains though.

Knowing that I am running rdwc (recirculating deep water culture) I was worried about popping standard seeds into the system and end up with my typical female to male ratio which at that time was roughly 80% female to male ratio from my personal experience with standard beans.

So 12 plants end up with 2 males that would leave me with 2 empty buckets on the system and I wasnt trying to deal with that I had been without a crop for quite a while at the time and needed a good run to get me back on track. I decided fem seeds were my best option at the time, (no one to get cuts from) so I purchased 30 fem seeds 10 beans of 3 strains.

I popped those beans took the 12 best looking plants put them into the system, Put the other 18 in soil. In the end I ended up getting no males no nanna's perfect sensimilia end product, I averaged 2.1 lbs per 1k and was very pleased with the results. The other 18 produced another 1.5-1.7 per light in soil.

Out of the 30 beans I ended up 30 nice females and quite honestly there was very little variation in them, I got 3 phenotypes from the mazar 2 pheno types from the blueberry and the strawberry cough well they were pretty much one in the same.

Overall I was very pleased with the outcome, and If I ever get in a position where I needed females only from beans I'd surely grab some fem seeds.

My opinion on fem seeds, Based on the run I posted about above and 2-3 other runs using them as well, I believe fem seeds are perfectly good and worth the extra penny.

I also think that people who have had bad experiences with fem seeds, Should blame the breeder not the method/technique. Breeder error is what results in bad beans.

Hermie beans from fem seed, I'd have to believe the strain has hermie tendencies regardless and if you were to run standard beans of the same strain you would end up with some hermies in there as well..

I think the technique/method for fem seeds does work and works well, giving that it was applied correctly and also that the strain used does not have hermie tendencies.

Okay fair enough having a disruption that set you back to square one I can see you not wanting to wait for the seed plants to mature, take clones and then put the clones in your rdwc. To me though money is too tight, to be honest I've never bought seed. I came close to buying some C-99 once but when I asked Gypsy if he would be getting any (his store was out of stock) Gypsy offered me some for free as testers. In fact that was the only time I ever grew feminized seed. Which by the way that grow went much the way yours did as far as vigor and yield. Although I did get a couple of plants with late flower hermie growth. Didn't get seeds though because I harvested right after I spotted it.

Also good point about breeder quality the layman understands so little of breeding that they tend to assume any breeder who sells seeds is a good one. Just like any other industry though there are good ones, bad ones and ones inbetween.

Anyway back to my point, being that I can't really afford to buy, if I did buy I'd buy standard, save some money and just accept that maybe I got to treat the from seed plants as mothers and expect any harvest to come from clones. It's really only a small deviation from growing out feminized with the only real drawback being the time for the clones to root and veg to a decent flowering size. Since you just spent around 2 months getting the moms to maturity.

So I guess I'm really saying that there's nothing per se wrong with Feminized seed but to me it's just not worth the extra money. I mean if someone offered me a strain I wanted to try, in feminized form, for free I wouldn't turn it down necessarily. Otherwise I'll just stick with standard and expect to work mostly from clones.

 

[stagger lee]

I agree w/hempkat that theres no fair way of saying feminized is good or bad, its kinda like saying pizza is good or bad. Some places have great pizza some shitty. There are way too many breeders offering shitty feminized that show the intersex trait too easily when stressed.Theres obviously some breeders that go the extra mile when selecting/finding the right true females and offer great feminized seeds. But I think every1 can agree that its a difficult selection process that probably takes time and patience, some breeders that offer many fem strains might feel pushed into releasing feminized genetics to quickly and not taking the time to select properly. some good some bad. So their not 100% good or bad,all else is just stereotyping IMO

 

[bigwity]

i refuse to pay such inflated prices seeds are such a rip off and there is no way to tell what quality your getting plus you may get duds id much rather make some of my own and do some swapsies with my mates

 

[Baba Ku]

I would like to enter in my two cents here if it's OK.
Many of the arguments I see laid out here against the use of feminized seeds seem to be hinged on the preferences and habits of the person arguing against them, as well as their pre-conceived notions. Not much is actually being discussed about what fem seeds really are.

Arguments have been made that perhaps a person is just lazy and doesn't want to wait until preflowers show. Well, what about the person who grows a whole box or tent full of plants 12/12 from seed? Would fem seeds not be a good thing for them to use?

And what about the field grower? Fem seeds allows a grower to place his plants out in the field, and then come back in the fall to all female plants. He didn't have to make a second (most likely two or three more trips) to get males culled out of his patch.
Oh sure, many may argue he should be using a clone tree or some other method. But that is going back to YOUR preference.

There are lots of good reasons to use fem seeds. And unless someone could show that they were inferior to regular bred seeds then the above arguments are similar to arguing what the best colored containers are.

And many will pop right up and state they can show them inferior. But I would challenge them to prove it. Seems many think that just their thoughts on the matter is proof enough. Heck, some people have had huge rocks thrown at them in this thread for simply stating their opinion and a few facts. Rocks thrown by those who really have no real clues as to what they are talking about. More akin to a kids group, than a group of adults offering sage advise.

Instead of relying on opinion central for all your info, try actually studying the issue for a change. Those who have actually studied the horticulture and genetics of breeding tend to understand these things, and those who haven't make it painfully obvious by their words in these threads.

I won't go deep into it here, but I can tell you for certainty that fem seeds have a great worth in the breeding world, besides the worth they present to the growers.
Fem seeds is a great tool for the professional breeders. Breeders who actually understand the science behind feminized seeds and know it's worth. The breeders also know why you folks fight and argue about the issue too. They know exactly why. But to try and convince some of you is like hitting a brick wall. Even worse in many instances, as many a good person has been trampled by the mean words of the blatantly ignorant.

Just like blazeoneup seeing a great consistency in his plants from fem seeds. There is a good reason for that. And if you folks would actually put on your study caps, instead of continuing to pass on bad info and basic hearsay, then you too would know why he experienced the consistency in the plants that were grown from fem seeds.

Some of you smart old folks try it for yourself if the physical and holdable is all you can really handle. Grow out the regular stock of a reputable breeder and along side of that grow their feminized offering of the same strain. I can almost guarantee you that you will see more consistency in the fem plants, and for good reason too. It is just that you folks don't seem to have info concerning the why's and why not's. It seems everything is based on your opinions and speculation.

To simply state that evolution is the reason we shouldn't use fem seeds is a ridiculous statement to make. It shows me that this person really is just typing and not putting forth much effort to actually type something of worth. Thing is, they are correct in that evolution is key, but they seem to not have any knowledge past that. People that actually know about the genetics of cannabis breeding can show you exactly why and how evolution comes into play. You people throwing these baseless charges out can't even explain what you really mean, let alone the real truth of the issue.
And not knowing what you are talking about hardly gives your the right to throw bad words and baseless charges at others who actually have taken the time to study the subject.

I have seen lots of good info coming out of this thread, and if Hempkat can't answer most likely another older member can.
But when it comes to this issue, it seems to have taken the shape of the other threads that either get shut down, or they fade away into the dust because folks are tired of wasting their good thoughts on the blatantly ignorant. It is especially disheartening to see the dumbass charge get thrown out by dumbasses.
Of any place on this board I would like to see wise up, it would be this one. I have respect for us old guys and the experience we can offer up to young and new growers. But when the knowledge turns into the typical ignorant bullshit, it is a big disappointing bummer.

I do however have every faith that if the truth is ever to be put out there, it would come from an old cats thread. Please help my optimism to be fruitful. Don't let me down and continue on an ignorant path that any kids could take.

FWIW I am a grower that is past 50 years in age, and have been smoking pot since 1972 and growing it nearly as long.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

lol guys been sending me neasty PM's and now he finally posts the great white hope for the fem seed maybe my "scientific data's" wrong but that never trumps personal expierence and if you run your life based off this kinda madness i can only imagine over 50 tons of cats maybe a trailer iole lady left many moons ago only pussy you can keep around so can't fight with that so you insist on arguing with people in PM until they shoo you away
ahhhhhh!!!! classic now all ya need i a yohoo stain on your shirt and spaghettios for chow

preaching to the choir here i call them lazy and i gave you a solid fail proof way to keep your security in tact and not have to roll the dice with these beans weather they're going to preform like they claim and if you just chuck seeds out there and end up with males in a reg seed pack well i'd say thats your own stupidity anyone i know that grows outdoor starts everything indoors have a nice day

 

[Baba Ku]

See what I mean.

 

[bigwity]

plus if i get males i keep pollen for future crosses. fems have there place though.

 

[Baba Ku]

I think many get the impression that those who advocate the worth of fem seeds are trying to say that it is the way to go. On my part that is quite the contrary. I have grown several plants out from fem seeds, but I do not grow them as a rule. Only ones I may have made myself usually. Nor do I really care if anyone cares to purchase or grow them. What I do care about it is the truth. The truth in all issues concerning cannabis actually. I don't want half baked bullshit, do you?

Now, when fems are talked about the "hermie" thing always comes up. Well, let's look at that a bit. When a reputable breeder makes seeds for a fem offering, he is not just taking a pick of plants willy-nilly and chucking pollen. No, he is selecting from the best and most stable of his stock for a pollen donor. *In many instances the simple fact that he is actually selecting just past what his standard seed offering was selected to, provides the opportunity for the fem progeny to be even more stable and consistent than the standard seeds will offer. Hence the experiences blazeoneup and myself have experienced when it comes to higher rates of stable and consistent plants from fem seeds.

Now, take your method for another example bigwity. Sure you can collect the pollen and chuck it about, but what do you have? You really have no idea if it is laden with intersex prone genes or not. Yet you would use it for further breeding. That is fine to do, and who really cares. But, what you are doing is what brings about the unstable stock and the perpetuation of the intersex trait in dominant fashion. Like I said, nothing wrong with that at all in the private realm. But, that doesn't work so well in the pro world of commercial seed offerings.

*(I want to mention that many of the fem version of regular standards are in reality a backcross of the strain...example; a breeder offer regular WW and femmed WW. The femmed version in many instances will actually be WWbx1. Knowing this may help to understand why the stability and consistency thing exists)

 

[Baba Ku]

*(I want to mention that many of the fem version of regular standards are in reality a backcross of the strain...example; a breeder offer regular WW and femmed WW. The femmed version in many instances will actually be WWbx1. Knowing this may help to understand why the stability and consistency thing exists)

While I am at it, let me expand on this a bit...
Like I am saying, many fems will actually be a BX of the original offering. And if that particular strain has a pheno that is highly sought after, then it is in most all likelihood that the breeder actually selected for that particular phenotype expression when he was searching for a proper pollen donor. Or at least he would probably include it in his lineup of mothers. I say that because he may actually have picked all of the phenotypical expressions (the best of those at that) to use for his fathers. The seeds may well indeed have two or more mothers that donated the pollen used for the final commercial offering.

All these facts point to the superiority of the practice, not to it being of less worth.

 

[kotton_mouth]

hey hempkat
i have a 5 gallon set up in my closet i am sprouting my seed in a lil brownie looking thing but im a lil confused on what to do next??

how long after it sprouts should i put it in the bucket?

dose it need light as soon as it sprouts??

do i add more soil to a cup and put it under the light then a week later transplant to bucketr with rocks?

 

[Billy Burroughs]

hey hempkat
i have a 5 gallon set up in my closet i am sprouting my seed in a lil brownie looking thing but im a lil confused on what to do next??

how long after it sprouts should i put it in the bucket?

dose it need light as soon as it sprouts??

do i add more soil to a cup and put it under the light then a week later transplant to bucketr with rocks?

this is DWC i'm assuming i'd let it root real good so leave it in your cloning dome and what not till it starts showing signs of growth is typically how i do done it with rapid rooter's or root riots thats what the brownie thing is called and once it shows good solid signs of roots i'd put it into whatever net basket your going to grow it out in and in whatever medium your going to use and throw it into your DWC setup and rock n roll
i'm not a hydro guy myself but i don't see the point in putting it into another cup to let it root in there and then putting it into your medium and into your bucket set up
everyone that i know that runs RDWC no one does DWC but same deal just with cycling water and they all put there stuff into there bydro set ups after growing it out in a red beer cup with coco in it then transplant that to hydroton then i have another friend who runsd an ebb n flo tables he uses rockwool he starts with the cloning cube then that cube slides right into the big ones and thats that
the guy that does the transplant to coco thing i'm not sure why he does it but he is a member here and if you want you can contact him i'll send you his username in your private box K
he's been running his RDWC for a good year now and he lets them get root bound in coco then puts them in his buckets but he also doesnt do the 2week veg deal and i don't think he does full res changes not real sure what he has going on there to be honest lol but the advice i gave ya i'm thinking is probablly beter advice than transplanting them to coco then into hydroton he does a full 2 month veg on his plants i have no idea why but hees his name and fire away tel him i sent yu in the subject line

well you dont have a mailbox but it's on your profile wall if you need to ask him that is

 

[Weezard]

Can't "fix" some t'ings.

Can't "fix" some t'ings.

See what I mean.

Yes, sadly.

I use the ignore function for for just this reason.

It's heartening to see a well thought out, intelligent post.
Mahalo for that last one.

We're it not for folks like yourself, Hempcat and a few others, (they know who), I'd bag this, and go read a book.

Aloha y'all

Wee

 

[kotton_mouth]

thank you billy im going to let it grow in the rapid rooter's lol then i will let it grow untill i see its first set im thinking then i will transplant to the baskt an rock and roll!!!!

1 more thing once i see the set i put it under the light???
until then i leave it in darkness???

 

[blazeoneup]

Thanks for the negative rep, Billy Burroughs... Btw the message was funny Got a good laugh from it...

You may disagree with my opinion, But one things for certain my opinion is formulated from experience and experience speaks loudly.

Personally I am not a fem seed pusher, I dont go telling people buy fem. I just simply dont agree with your view, based on my experience with fems, I see things quite differently. To go giving me negative rep was kinda childish but I'll just jump the band wagon and return the favor.

It's your right to use whatever beans you want to grow with, As it is anyone elses, I posted my experience with them and that's all I am gonna say. You throw such hate towards fem beans, have fun with your pollen chucks....

 

[Billy Burroughs]

i dont use the ban feature freedom of speech
and blaze i've been so concerned about the rep i gave you i cant even remember what it was but i'll look into it
TY Weezard i'm not as tactful as Hempcat but i do know how to grow marijuana and i hate the fact it cost me so much to learn so little been doing it for quite sometime and in that time i've used on fem seed and that was all it took for me to realize wow and this was a HTCC winner wow how did they ever get it through the herm cycle have a man posted on it 24/7 scissors in hand just waiting for nanners
and evolution has a huge role in mother nature if it wouldn't have been for our genetic markers will to survive to reproduce we wouldn't be here today same goes for marijuana if that plant has the will to survive i don't care what you've done to it to "make it a true female" that's horse manure laziness flat out most outdoor farmers i know don't just toss seeds out on open fields either it's a very long painstaking process takes about a yer or more to get your next years crop properly ready and to get your numbers to where you want them and this is achieved by germinating growing out then cloning and cloning till you have your set number then you grow these out for 2 months or so then you take them one time to your grow spot so there's no reason as this gentleman explained for there to be any security breach everything that's there you already know is female plain and simple