seeds keep dieing

[kaarma]

Hi,
I'm new to hydro and with only 2 soils grows. I had no problem with starting seeds in paper towel and then in soil but I have 50% failure with rapid rooters. Once seed cracks I put it in wet rr, that is in 3" net pot and hydroton in bubbler. i started 3 seeds at a time and only 1 seed survives. i ve done that 3 times. lost 6 seeds. Any suggestions or links?
Thank you

 

[morrisgreenberg]

maybe your putting the rooter plugs into your bubbler too soon. they may be getting drowned. before i x-fer young seedlings i use rockwool or STG cubes, and i wait till the roots are healthy enough to take a new system. what happens is the young seedling is 100% dependant on the rooter for all of its moisture, so when you add it to a hydro system it may be constantly getting soaked and staying soaked, this is why i wait till i have a few tap roots sticking out of the plug around an inch so the seedling no longer depends on the plugs for moisture, also on transplant you should place your plug approx. 1/2 inch above the water line to prevent constant soaking, too much water will kill a baby in the crib

 

[MAZEinaHAZE]

i'd leave the cracked seed in the wet rapid rooter....in the propgation tray, with a 1/4" to 1/2" of water on the bottom and a lid/dome over top until the seeds have secured their taproot, shed off its shell.....and at least one set of leaves have grown. Then you can still keep in RR ( or transplant ) with no lid/dome.

But really, don't get over anxious......don't speed up the natural growth of the plant. We are our own worse enemies .....

Be gentle, baby them cause they are babies........

As per transplanting them to 3" netpot/hydroton and bubbler.....wait until the roots have broken thru the RR. I think that by having the water level below netpot, and the fresh seedling just starting out, there is not enough constant moisture and you could the starving them ( sorry to disagree Morrisgreenberg )....

my RR's can get totally soaked, and stay that way for a while ( in the early stages of life ) and too much water is NEVER an issue. Dry is death.....

 

[Japanfreakier]

transplanting too early prolly

 

[FreezerBoy]

Paper towels have no magic powers. Their advantages are limited to root breakage and death. The problem could be the seed stock, the towel, it could be the Rapid Rooters but, I doubt over watering or transplanting early.

I drop seeds in my rockwool bubbler where 100% media saturation is the key and transplant the moment of sprouting, before roots show. If I can't see them, I can't break them.

The only times I've lost a sprout after transplanting into the big tub is from too little water. Hydroton adsorbs it doesn't absorb, it doesn't wick. If the tap root is too high above the water line, it dries out and kills the plant in less time than a good night's sleep. Keep the waterline in direct contact with the sprout media. Because the water is heavily aerated, saturation prevents drowning.

Don't produce an air gap until roots are longer than the gap you introduce.

 

[Japanfreakier]

Freezer he us using rapid rooters, not rockwool. I wouldn't want to put a rapid rooter with a seed that has just sprouted into a bunch of water.

 

[MAZEinaHAZE]

why not Japanfreakier ?? They are made for just that reason. I have 100% success with cutting or seeds in RR...and they are totally wet the entire time.

The negative would be a stem of a plant, sitting in a soaking wet RR for an extended period of time. Then stem rot will occur.....

 

[morrisgreenberg]

Maze i agree with most of your thought except the issue about water level. i dont do DWC but E&F, if you have roots that are ready for x-plant, they will act ass scavengers, always on the hunt for water. since he has a bubbler system, enclosed, the moisture of the air within the system should be enough to sustain the roots untill they are long enough to reach the water, and at that point the roots will grow very fast, it should take maybe a day to reach the water level.since its a bubbler system it will create an aeroponic like mist, the constant bubbles busrting giving a little spray effect onto the hanging roots. what i mean is bringing water to the roots does not give the root incentive to grow. i just had a seedling die on me, i am using STG 1inch cubes for the first time and they hold way too much water, the baby rootling just turnied into mush even after poping her head out

 

[morrisgreenberg]

Freezer he us using rapid rooters, not rockwool. I wouldn't want to put a rapid rooter with a seed that has just sprouted into a bunch of water.

me too, both will soak up,i come from the school of thought of the more oxygen the better. instead of having a waterlogged starting media like RR or RW i would prefer to keep barely moist so that oxygen can penetrate and as i said in my earlier post, the less water retained in your starting media the more you will encourage that tap root to break free in search of water

 

[morrisgreenberg]

Paper towels have no magic powers. Their advantages are limited to root breakage and death. The problem could be the seed stock, the towel, it could be the Rapid Rooters but, I doubt over watering or transplanting early.

I drop seeds in my rockwool bubbler where 100% media saturation is the key and transplant the moment of sprouting, before roots show. If I can't see them, I can't break them.

The only times I've lost a sprout after transplanting into the big tub is from too little water. Hydroton adsorbs it doesn't absorb, it doesn't wick. If the tap root is too high above the water line, it dries out and kills the plant in less time than a good night's sleep. Keep the waterline in direct contact with the sprout media. Because the water is heavily aerated, saturation prevents drowning.

Don't produce an air gap until roots are longer than the gap you introduce.

sorry for all the posts but freezer boy i have to respectfully disagree with you, first because RW wicks up water way too good, having 100% media saturation goes against the grain here. not a good idea to keep the bottom of a piece of RW in constant contact with water, no matter how well aerated. your use of RW will work well for you personally i am sure because RW itself is a touchy media and decent experience is need like you have with it. i wouldnt tell a person having dying seedlings to do that, i would recommend what i have said earlier and what Maze has said, keep them in a tray under a dome until you have strong roots, atleast an inch worth. personally whatever media i use for starting seeds i keep a 1 inch layer of perlite under the cube in a tray, its to nice and airy with little moisture, it makes my roots grow out like curly spahgetti. to me access of oxygen is a young seedlings best friend. when soaking that RR try to squeeze eccess water out and leave it moist under a dome, if need be pick up the RR and see if it is too light, this will tell you if it need a lil spray of water

 

[Japanfreakier]

why not Japanfreakier ?? They are made for just that reason. I have 100% success with cutting or seeds in RR...and they are totally wet the entire time.

The negative would be a stem of a plant, sitting in a soaking wet RR for an extended period of time. Then stem rot will occur.....

What's supposed to happen to a RR sitting in water?

 

[kerlito]

transplanting too early prolly

i think it , and maeby rapid rooter get to much humdity

 

[kaarma]

thank you for the discussion.
the RR was on top of hydroton and the water was bubbling at the bottom of the net pot. the RR was soaked but I thought since it was getting oxygenated water that the soggy was ok.

 

[kaarma]

Paper towels have no magic powers. Their advantages are limited to root breakage and death. The problem could be the seed stock, the towel, it could be the Rapid Rooters but, I doubt over watering or transplanting early.

I drop seeds in my rockwool bubbler where 100% media saturation is the key and transplant the moment of sprouting, before roots show. If I can't see them, I can't break them.

The only times I've lost a sprout after transplanting into the big tub is from too little water. Hydroton adsorbs it doesn't absorb, it doesn't wick. If the tap root is too high above the water line, it dries out and kills the plant in less time than a good night's sleep. Keep the waterline in direct contact with the sprout media. Because the water is heavily aerated, saturation prevents drowning.

Don't produce an air gap until roots are longer than the gap you introduce.

Thank you for the reply.
Do I understand you correctly that you place the cracked seed into the RW, put it into a net pot surrounded by hydroton. I see that the RW sits in or on top of the water. Does the seed make it through the hydroton?

 

[FreezerBoy]

I don't pre-treat seeds in any way. No soaking, cracking or paper towels. Just drop the seed in the cube. Once it sprouts, seedling is placed in a netcup of hydroton and placed in the DWC.

In this stage, when the tap root is tiny, should the cube dry out, the seedling dies. This dry out can happen within a few hours. Having contact between netcup and waterline may not be sufficient to water the cube as Hydroton doesn't wick. To insure the cube stays wet, raise the waterline in the tub so there is direct contact between cube and water.

In a few hours, root will break out of the cube into the hydroton. In a few days, roots emerge from the net cup. When roots are 3-4 inches below the bottom of the pot, lower waterline 1" below the pot. Some maintain a 1" gap religiously, I allow the gap to drop as much as 6-8 inches between top offs once plant is mature. A mature plant merely needs the top roots to be damp.

The following shows root growth in DWC, the first two (days 6 & 11) are NOT ready for a lower waterline. Shot #3 (day 15) is OK to lower the waterline.

 

[kaarma]

So you put the seed in a presoaked cube and place it in a tray with 1/4" water with a dome over? Do you think the rapid rooter will do the same or should I go back to the store for more RW? My seeds tried to leave the RR do you have that problem?

 

[kaarma]

I'll read through your links Freezer boy.

 

[FreezerBoy]

These days I start seeds in my Rockwool bubbler. While you can create the need for domes in cloning, seedlings expect and desire an endless open sky. Domes can only harm them.

I'd advise against leaving media in standing water. If the water isn't heavily aerated, shake excess water out of the media and water lightly every day.

I don't understand the statement...

My seeds tried to leave the RR

The only time I've seen a "seed" escape the media is when it's empty and cracked open by the sprout which pushes it up and out of the way.

 

[kaarma]

HI FB
Update!!!!! I started 2 free seeds the 19th and both are 1 inch tall. I started them in RR, no soaking etc. I soaked the RR then dropped the seed in. I kept the RR wet but not soaking, open air.
I think the seedlings that tried to "escape" the RR were upside down. The roots came out of the RR.
Thank you for your help. I enjoy your grown threads, love the names.