What traits are passed on by the male and female plants

[DocLeaf]

What traits are passed on by the male and female plants

A simple analogy is to think of 'traits' in dog terms. If a breed crosses a labrador with a poodle , in the pups on average they'll get 25% that are more labrador, 25% that are more poodle, and 50% that a 'labradoodle'. Besides physical appearance, some pups will display the soft mouthed traits of the labs, while others may be sharp mouthed like poodles. Temperament, and dominance or recessiveness and metabolism will also vary between siblings... based on the genetic traits passed on by both the dog and bitch parents,, and the grand-parents.

In the above the breeders select the labradoodles with the best temperament over appearance,, and slowly work toward producing pure labradoodle pups in every litter until appearance is met. At which point the breed will be recognised by the kennel clubs and other official bodies of doggy people... lol

It's exactly the same in the ganja breeding game,, parents pass on traits depending on their dominance or recessives in that generation,, which will pop up in the next generation, or the one after.

The traits passed on then depend on the genetic substance (genotype) of the plant material,, and has nothing to do with the way or method it is grown (phenotype).

Peace out
DocLeaf

Quick Note:

Genotype = the genetic make up of a specimen (the plant)

Phenotype = the environmental influence over the genotype and morphology (how it grows)

Specimen = a unique individual or specific plant used in reference, including specific clones.

 

[DocLeaf]

How do you know it's your best male?

We normally top them and see which one grows back with the most vigor,,, after selecting them on health, leaf shape, and smell

 

[bigwity]

We normally top them and see which one grows back with the most vigor,,, after selecting them on health, leaf shape, and smell

i select males based on smell tric coverage and stretchyness.
what i wanna know doc is how many plants do you grow out cos if its not high numbers your a hack in the eyes of most. i wonder how many you must grow to be a real breeder

 

[RollmeoneKenobi]

Thanks Chimera, it is always great to hear your advice!
I guess there is no getting around progeny tests to see which combination has the best results.

 

[Chimera]

Interesting stuff, Chimera! I'm curious though - Why is it that we (at least think we can) 'see' the parents in the progeny? Do the polygenic traits 'center' around a certain family of traits that are similar to the P1s?

Hi Beta,

I perhaps could have been more clear or eloquent in what I wrote previously... it's not that you can't see the effects of the parentals in the progeny, you certainly can.

What you can't do is look at the progeny that may have traits from the mother plant, and then say these traits are ALWAYS passed on from the mother. Of course you can see traits from parents.. you may have your mom's hair colour or dad's nose, but that doesn't mean you can say "noses are passed on from father's and hair colour is passed on from mother's".. which is essentially what people are claiming when they say that specific traits are inherited from either the mother of father.

It's all about the genotype... the actual combination of genes inherited from the mother or father, and how these genes interact to determine the phenotype for that given trait in the offspring.

Make sense?


Polygenic traits are much more complicated, because as the name suggest they are the result of multiple (poly) genes that are interspersed throughout the genome on different chromosomes, and even if they are on the same chromosome they are likely located on different linkage groups spaced over the chromosome.

To really follow these effects you at least need to determine the regions of the chromosome on which they are located via a linkage map, or a molecular technique called Quantitative Trait Analysis (QTL's).. this is a way of 'teasing apart' what genes are combined together to result in the overall trait which we might call yield, potency, or flavour. All of these traits are under the control of many genes, which act together in concert to produce what we may see as one trait... but the reality is that these traits don't fit the "one gene - one trait" hypothesis.

I don't know if I answered your question, but I hope that helps a little.

Respectfully,
-Chimera

 

[Chimera]

in my experience i dont belive you need a gaol to achive just cross what you want and see what you get grow them out pick the best its that simple.

Breeding is selecting and moving a populations towards a goal.. if you aren't making selections or have a goal, you aren't breeding... you are just making seeds - simple enough, no?

Remember- the production of seeds in cannabis is the DEFAULT- it takes more work to not make seeds than it does to make them.... to not make seeds and produces sinsemilla (literally, without seed) you have to remove the males. To make seeds, you do nothing but grow all plants that sprout and let them carry out their natural life cycle. Which do you think takes more effort? .

Making seeds in cannabis is nothing special, making special seeds in cannabis is something else entirely.

Respectfully,
-Chimera

 

[DocLeaf]

what i wanna know doc is how many plants do you grow out cos if its not high numbers your a hack in the eyes of most. i wonder how many you must grow to be a real breeder

We've selected male plants 1:1 (sensi star) donated and male plants 1:200 (bubble dust),, with similar results in off-spring. We personally think it is better to work with fewer healthy specimens, than 100s of rope plants,, in the hope of finding a nice male plant.

The more homogeneous the male parent line,, then the less variation usually occurs in the off-spring... but otherwise there is no magic number... so we look to use healthy male plants with a desired characteristic... and see what happens

Hope this helps

 

[bigwity]

ive got some lush crosses and ive selected them but not fromm massive numbers so am i a hack or a breeder cos we must distingush ourselves from the common pollen chuckers lol. i understand most principles of breeding. what i wanna raise is
if i pollinate lots of seeds just to make seeds im a hack right? even if over a few years i grow out all the seeds and keep the best plants for future crosses.
but if i make seeds and grow them all out in a shorter time and i make a theory up guessing what im gonna get, then im a breeder.
i think its just a vain attempt to make people sound like pros. if i cross two plants and end up growing offspring and keeping the best offsping whats the difference guys come on. i belive all pollen chuckers are breeders its just some can plot roughly what they are gonna get. peace out bigwity

 

[Phillthy]

For some reason people think they can look at the phenotypes of the mother and father, and then the phenotype of the offspring and makes rules and determinations about what was inherited from whom... all te while ignoring the fact that phenotypes are the result of genotypes.

Very few traits are maternally or paternally linked in cannabis... one of the only I've been able to confirm is variegation... which is a chloroplast DNA trait, inherited from the mother.

.... it just doesn't happen, and there has been ABSOLUTELY ZERO evidence published anywhere to support the claim that any traits are inherited from the maternal or paternal side..... anything else is just pure speculation or misinterpreted data.

-Chimera

i think there may be some confusion here about actual genetic makeup and sex linked traits. sex linked traits only show on the sex they are linked to. colorblindness in male humans for instance. the female carries the gene bu it is only manifested in male offspring.

there is tons of evidence that we get 50% of our genes from our father and %50 from our mother and in plants it is just the same. that is why out crosses will yield many more pheno types (physical manifestation of genotype or genetic makeup). to discredit phenotype as a tool would not be wise. if you can see the trait you want then you are looking at that traits phenotype. select for it, recombine it to other plants that have it and eventually you will have made this genotype dominant and it will always be expressed in the offspring (phenotype). without actually seeing the genetic coding in front of you, phenotype is all we have to go by. testing the stock will later determine whether these traits are dominant and recessive and further selecting and working will either make them dominant or recessive per the breeders wishes.

A simple analogy is to think of 'traits' in dog terms. If a breed crosses a labrador with a poodle , in the pups on average they'll get 25% that are more labrador, 25% that are more poodle, and 50% that a 'labradoodle'. Besides physical appearance, some pups will display the soft mouthed traits of the labs, while others may be sharp mouthed like poodles. Temperament, and dominance or recessiveness and metabolism will also vary between siblings... based on the genetic traits passed on by both the dog and bitch parents,, and the grand-parents.

In the above the breeders select the labradoodles with the best temperament over appearance,, and slowly work toward producing pure labradoodle pups in every litter until appearance is met. At which point the breed will be recognised by the kennel clubs and other official bodies of doggy people... lol

It's exactly the same in the ganja breeding game,, parents pass on traits depending on their dominance or recessives in that generation,, which will pop up in the next generation, or the one after.

The traits passed on then depend on the genetic substance (genotype) of the plant material,, and has nothing to do with the way or method it is grown (phenotype).

Peace out
DocLeaf

Quick Note:

Genotype = the genetic make up of a specimen (the plant)

Phenotype = the environmental influence over the genotype and morphology (how it grows)

Specimen = a unique individual or specific plant used in reference, including specific clones.

i like what you say here doc except for the part that says that phenotype is the method in which it is grown. phenotype is the physical expression of genotype. is is what the genetics make up that we can see, smell, touch, etc. both are equally as important in breeding dogs or plants.

Breeding is selecting and moving a populations towards a goal.. if you aren't making selections or have a goal, you aren't breeding... you are just making seeds - simple enough, no?

Remember- the production of seeds in cannabis is the DEFAULT- it takes more work to not make seeds than it does to make them.... to not make seeds and produces sinsemilla (literally, without seed) you have to remove the males. To make seeds, you do nothing but grow all plants that sprout and let them carry out their natural life cycle. Which do you think takes more effort? .

Making seeds in cannabis is nothing special, making special seeds in cannabis is something else entirely.

Respectfully,
-Chimera

well said

 

[beta]

.

 

[sloe1427]

Femenized seeds almost ALWAYS hermaphrodize.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

This is @ BETA

You seem to have a confusion on the issue of genotype versus phenotype. The reason you don't solely make selections based on phenotype is because of negative recessive genes. I'll make it as simple as possible: If S is superdank bud and is a dominant trait, when you grow out a superdank individual you never know if it's an SS or an Ss genotype. You know the phenotype is superdank and that all the crappy plants you grew were ss but you don't know until after you breed what the genotype of the winner plant was. This is as simple as I can make it but the reality is that there is no SS 'superdank' type out there. Everything we desire is controlled by many genes spread all across the genome.

 

[Baba Ku]

IMO, during the selection process for an F1 it is numbers that matter most. I think that selection at this juncture should involve choosing healthy plants, and not so much by phenotype expression. Actually wide variety is probably more important at this stage than trying to narrow the Ne numbers down.
Once a good amount of the numbers has been chosen, an open pollination with all the candidates is in order.
Once the F1's are popped, THEN you can start to look for the phenotype expressions and cull more vigorously in the F2 population.
Something about the F2 population that allows us to start to see what is what. The recessive and dominance is easily seen then.
Screwing ourselves out of Ne numbers in the first generation is the biggest mistake most make.