The Anti-Prop 19 Dream Team

[JackTheGrower]

There are 59 days until Tuesday, 2 November 2010.

Prop 19 isn't my choice for a step forward since it looks to discriminate against the poor renter such as myself.

I find it very hard to vote yes for this because I am voting against myself and may find the language of Prop 19 will take away my medical garden status I have worked so hard to have in 10 years of being a medical Patient since I rent and have been rather open about my life.

However, I see that our elected officials are stepping up to oppose the vote of the people.
In a way the "Political Power brokers" are being asked to risk their positions and rally the vote against.

After all who is a Conservative middle class voter going to believe.. Someone reminding them they have followed the Party Line this far now gather once again under Political Controls of old.

So I feel saying I will vote Yes on Prop 19 is needed at this time.

I introduce this thread to follow the Political powers against. Please donate articles and news.
We should see who gets tapped on the shoulder to oppose the People of California.
That and a countdown thread to the vote.

Today is 59 days until Tuesday, 2 November 2010.

Less than 2 months and this should get interesting.

The Polls show 47% in favor and 43% opposed now with Central Valley being the source of the shift away from 50%

I can see Prop 19 passing and I can see prop 19 not passing but I don't see the margin of percentage of either being very large.

Prop 19 gambles that it offers the best compromise and therefore it didn't need the Central Valley in fact Lee himself warned about Central Valley competing with Bay Area production.

Lets see if Prop 19, although it alienates Cannabis people from voting for it, can pull off the Big Gamble.

So there is an Anti-Dream team now. The Sheriff from LA is the head of that? D. Fienstien is a Co-Chair..

Who else is collecting Tax funded pay-checks and is fighting against the people?

Why are we allowing these people to campaign on our tax money?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Sheriff Lee Baca ( L.A. ) announced that he would lead efforts against a November ballot measure to legalize marijuana for personal use.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein To Chair No On Prop 19

Meg Whitman, Jerry Brown are both no on Prop 19.

Who else is leading up the opposition.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Kerlikowske and former drug czars John Walters, Barry McCaffrey, Lee Brown, Bob Martinez, and William Bennett.

 

[JackTheGrower]

No on Prop. 19’s list of supporters includes:

Mothers Against Drunk Driving, the California District Attorneys Association, the California Chamber of Commerce, the California Police Chiefs Association, Attorney General and Democratic Party gubernatorial candidate Jerry Brown, Association of California School Administrators and Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman.

 

[VirginHarvester]

I've heard that this "legalization" actually takes away rights we should have if it were true legalization. Why wouldn't they let people grow their own, unless maybe the bill was written with the input of entities that want to be responsible for supplying your meds?

I'm very suspicious of this bill because an article I read said it could be worse for us than having access to dispensaries.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I've heard that this "legalization" actually takes away rights we should have if it were true legalization. Why wouldn't they let people grow their own, unless maybe the bill was written with the input of entities that want to be responsible for supplying your meds?

I'm very suspicious of this bill because an article I read said it could be worse for us than having access to dispensaries.

Exactly what effect this Initiative will do is an interesting question.

I have my worries about it. But I am tired now. I've tried motivating folks and educating folks so all I have faith in is the people will continue to violate bad Cannabis laws.

Prop 19 isn't Legalization it is Decriminalization.
For the poor who rent and have more than one Adult in the household they will find this Prop 19 doesn't grant rights to individuals. Poor folks who rent may find they have no liberty to have gardens since prop 19 requires the land owner's permission.

The question is: Will the public get motivated to collect signatures for 2012?
We can have whatever Cannabis laws we want if we just get the people to act. Many folks I gathered signatures from didn't want to donate their time to help.

That is the problem folks not wanting to actually do more than talk.

Vote your mind but do vote.

 

[GoozMan]

I see your point. I myself am voting yes for 19. Among whatever effects this prop will have, I see this as an opportunity for everyone to cultivate their own marijuana, and in my view that is priceless. I also recognize that if I was earning my living through the cultivation and sale of cannabis I would probably be against it. People have to vote towards their own self-interest, and majority wins. If this doesn't pass, I will at least feel ok that the democratic process deemed it so. If more people want this to fail, then so be it.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I don't know what the future holds. I am watching the opposing sides for clues but so far the only clue is that each has their own political interests in mind with their position.

I am sure Jerry Brown would like to be President and Meg Whitman would like to be President. Can't get there by embracing Cannabis freedom I am sure.

 

[JackTheGrower]

The World Congress of Families warn of the dangers to children and families of Cali

The World Congress of Families warn of the dangers to children and families of Cali

Why do these things seem so right-wing to me?

I offer the article without too much being made of it.

I am watching the who and what's of this Election on both sides of Prop 19.

MEDIA ADVISORY, Sept. 7 /Christian Newswire/ -- The World Congress of Families -- with affiliates on five continents and members in 65 nations -- warned of the dangers to children and families of California's Proposition 19 on the November ballot, which legalizes marijuana in the state.

WCF Managing Director Larry Jacobs noted: "In the past 40 years, liberal social experiments have taken a devastating toll on families and children. Now, the same radicals who brought us no-fault divorce in the early 1970s are pushing drug legalization."

Jacobs continued: "You don't have to be an expert in the field to know that drugs hurt children, destroy families and ruin lives. It is axiomatic that legalization leads to easier access to marijuana, which in turn leads to greater drug use."

World Congress of Families V was held in Amsterdam in August 2009. From 1984 to 1996, the Dutch liberalized their laws regarding possession and use of cannabis products. As a result, marijuana use for young people (18-20 years of age) jumped from 15% in 1984 to 44% in 1986.

"Only the mothers and fathers who've seen their children's lives destroyed by drugs -- who've seen once promising futures literally go up in smoke -- can understand the impact of drugs on families. Those who use marijuana as adolescents are far more likely to graduate to heroin and cocaine," Jacobs commented.

The World Congress of Families is proud to stand with groups like the Drug Free America Foundation, the League of California Cities, the Association of California School Administrators, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, the California Police Chiefs' Association and Save Our Society from Drugs in opposing Proposition 19.

In 2004, Drug Free America Foundation Executive Director Calvina Fay spoke on "Drug Legalization In The New Millennium" at World Congress of Families III. Her speech may be accessed online at www.worldcongress.org/wcf3_spkrs/wcf3_fay.htm.

Dr. John Howard is the founder of the Howard Center for Family, Religion & Society, parent organization of WCF. Dr. Howard was a member of the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse (1971-73), the first Presidential Commission to consider the problem. His paper, "Legalized Marijuana: A Pending Disaster," is available online at www.profam.org/docs/jah/thc.jah.marijuana.htm.

For more about World Congress of Families, go to www.worldcongress.org . To schedule an interview with Larry Jacobs, contact Don Feder at 508-405-1337 or [email protected].

The World Congress of Families (WCF) is an international network of pro-family organizations, scholars, leaders and people of goodwill from more than 60 countries that seek to restore the natural family as the fundamental social unit and the 'seedbed' of civil society (as found in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, (1948). The WCF was founded in 1997 by Allan Carlson and is a project of The Howard Center for Family, Religion & Society in Rockford, Illinois (www.profam.org). To date, there have been five World Congresses of Families -- Prague (1997), Geneva (1999), Mexico City (2004), Warsaw, Poland (2007) and Amsterdam, Netherlands (2009). For more information, visit our website: www.worldcongress.org.

"Only the mothers and fathers who've seen their children's lives destroyed by drugs -- who've seen once promising futures literally go up in smoke -- can understand the impact of drugs on families.

I think he means being arrested for Cannabis. I'm sure he doesn't mean Viagra or Valium.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Covina police chief Raney takes vocal role against marijuana initiative

Covina police chief Raney takes vocal role against marijuana initiative

Covina police chief Raney takes vocal role against marijuana initiative
http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_16004579

COVINA - The campaign opposed to the Proposition 19 marijuana-legalization campaign has some big names lending their influence.

Last week, U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca announced they would co-chair the effort against the proposed law.

And for the past few months, a local heavyweight has been appearing on television and other news outlets to speak out against the idea - Covina police Chief Kim Raney.

Known to Valley residents because of his department's response to the 2008 Christmas massacre, Raney is one of two spokesmen for the California Police Chiefs Association, which has taken a staunch stance against the initiative.

"This is really about letting the voters know what the facts are," Raney said. "We feel it's our responsibility to educate our community, educate our voters, not on the campaign rhetoric but on what the real issues are, and hopefully they'll make an informed decision."

Raney's role is critical for the no campaign because the viewpoints of people connected in some way to law enforcement have taken a central role in the entire debate over marijuana.

Proponents have gathered endorsements from about two dozen former and retired officers, chiefs and district attorneys, plus the National Black Police Association.

"There are dozens of leading law enforcement officials who are supporting Prop. 19, people who have been on the front lines of our failed drug law, and
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seen that it's not working," said Dan Newman, spokesman for the yes campaign. "What's surprised people is the breadth and depth of support."

But the no campaign claims endorsements from a wide range of groups and individuals, including gubernatorial candidates Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown and both candidates for attorney general, Steve Cooley and Kamala Harris.

"The argument against is across party lines because all those people who are charged with public safety and protecting our state see the consequences at stake," Raney said.

The marijuana initiative decriminalizes possession of less than an ounce of the drug for adults over 21, implementing a tax that proponents say could generate $1.4 billion each year that could stabilize California's shaky finances. It will appear on the Nov. 2 ballot.

According to Newman, the measure would help squash drug cartels operating in the state and save time and resources dedicated to enforcement.

"This is really modeled after the end of alcohol prohibition," he said.

Raney, who worked as a narcotics officer in Covina throughout most of the 1980s, dismisses that idea.

"It would be naive to think they are going to walk away from that market," he said. "It would legitimize distribution branches."

In his media appearances, Raney often stresses some of the same points, which focus on the contention that the initiative is poorly worded, unlikely to generate the revenue proponents tout and likely to have unintended consequences.

He says the initiative puts the federal Drug-Free Workplace Act in jeopardy because employees could no longer be tested for marijuana use, and highway patrol officers would be limited because there is no accepted scientific measure to test if drivers are under the influence - marijuana stays in people's systems far longer than alcohol does.

Another concern is simply what legalization will do to local communities.

"The introduction of another intoxicant is forever going to change our social fabric," Raney said, adding that the marijuana of today is far more potent than what it was 30 years ago, when possession was a felony. "If you look at the shift in our society, you don't know what the future holds if you start going down that slope."

The Covina City Council has backed Raney by joining the no campaign.

"It's a controversial issue," said Councilman Bob Low, who said he understands the benefits marijuana can have for medical purposes. "The bottom line is, until we can get a handle on the discreet distribution of marijuana, the chief is on the right target. He's taking a position that enhances Covina's reputation."

Also, representatives for the no campaign are happy with what Raney has done for their cause.

"Raney has been a strong opponent of Prop. 19, he's been doing a lot of work in getting the message out about the dangers of the initiative, and obviously we're grateful for that," said no campaign spokesman Roger Salazar. "He's been very effective."

Raney is certain voters will ultimately reject the initiative. But if it passes, the argument could rage on in the form of court challenges.

In the meantime, Raney will stay busy speaking to the media as it gets closer to the election.

"In our opinion it's time for a national debate," Raney said. "That debate should be, 'Are we as a society ready to accept another intoxicant into our society, and are we prepared for the unintended consequences?' "

I wonder if Raney understands we are in the Middle of a National debate in which each State can decide for itself?
He seems to have a Federalist point of view.

So far I don't read anything new in Raney's position that hasn't been repeated before.
I'm kind of hoping that I will see some bright thinking from the opposition. So far nothing new.

I wonder if Raney would support a Law making parking lots for Bars illegal?

Someone ask him.

 

[amannamedtruth]

Lame

Lame

All profiteers.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I need to watch what happens. It is more important than a win or lose.
This is history unfolding.

 

[GoozMan]

Wow Jack, this is the best prop 19 thread i've seen so far. Very smart. I wish I had something to add, I'll keep my eyes open, and I'm reading what you've got. I read a post elsewhere that said it'll take big business getting involved in order to get anything through the political gate. ???

 

[Faraway]

Seems weird that people who are law enforcement & people breaking the law(pot smokers) are both vote no on prop 19. Same vote but different reasons. How much will the history books say....

 

[JackTheGrower]

I don't know how this story ends yet.

I am mentally ready to carry on fighting for true legalization.

But, ah, you are right it is never fun to promote legalization to grow sites for the most part. We would think it would be an easy sell.

I read that one of Boxers aids got busted with the sticky.

An aide to Sen. Barbara Boxer was arrested Tuesday and charged with possession of marijuana after he was stopped during a security screening while entering the Hart Senate Office Building in Washington at about noon.

Another victim of the war.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Black Police Association Gives Thumbs Down To California Pot Legalization Initiative

Black Police Association Gives Thumbs Down To California Pot Legalization Initiative

Black Police Association Gives Thumbs Down To California Pot Legalization Initiative.

In what looks to be an about face a once bright endorsement has grown dark.

Looks suspect at this point doesn't it?

ast month we told you how, in somewhat of a coup, backers of the California initiative that would legalize pot possession scored the endorsement of the National Black Police Association. It was a coup because law enforcement has been well allied against Prop. 19, which would let Californians 21 and older hold one ounce of pot.

It turns out that the NBPA is not the only national African-American cop group around, and that its feelings on the matter aren't universal among black officers. Turns out the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement (NOBLE) last week released a thumbs down on Prop. 19.

When the NBPA endorsed the measure it noted that drug laws are disproportionately enforced when it comes to African-Americans, and the group's nod came only weeks after a study revealed that blacks in L.A. County were four times as likely as whites to be arrested on suspicion of possessing the drug.

NOBLE acknowledges the the problem but argues decriminalizing pot is not the answer:

No the answer to discrimination isn't keeping the Black men and women out of jail is it.

Bull-shit.

We have laws on the books that make exceptions so that minorities can have something close to equality on many levels but when it comes to the Law Enforcement industry they believe in keeping it status quo.

So I add the NBPA to the dream team. A nice spin of public relations to look like they are defending minorities then back in line with the "Man." when he says jump. They Jump.

 

[JackTheGrower]

There are 54 days until
Tuesday, 2 November 2010.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Delete this please.

The previous post showed up.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Communities In Action and Save Our Society from Drugs Align Forces Against California

Communities In Action and Save Our Society from Drugs Align Forces Against California

Communities In Action and Save Our Society from Drugs Align Forces Against California Proposition 19

Organizations Join Forces Ahead of Sept. 11 Orange County Debate

SAN DIEGO, Sept. 9 /PRNewswire/ -- In order to strengthen their collective position throughout California, two anti-drug organizations are uniting their efforts in their campaign against Proposition 19 and the legalization of marijuana. San Diego-based Communities in Action, led by that organization's director John Redman, a ten-year veteran on drug policy and marijuana laws, is coordinating its efforts with Save Our Society from Drugs, led by national drug policy expert, Calvina Fay, who has advised on drug control strategy and policy under three White House administrations.

The alliance is designed to coordinate research and the latest statistical studies regarding Proposition 19 and marijuana issues in California.

John Redman says: "California is one of the largest states in the country in terms of physical dimension, population and sheer number of voters. By merging our resources, the two organizations can more seamlessly and efficiently communicate to the California voters on the wide range of issues regarding Proposition 19 that are confronting this state's diverse voter base."

Calvina Fay says: "There is something in Prop. 19 that the proponents are keeping quiet and that the public may not understand. Prop. 19 allows for the cultivation of marijuana in an area up to 25 square feet, a space that can accommodate as many as 25 full grown marijuana plants which have been known to grow as tall as eight feet and can produce up to 240,000 cigarettes. We already have a problem with large scale marijuana grows in our national parks; if Prop. 19 is passed, residents in California can expect to see pot plants growing over their fences. How do we keep children away from a dangerous drug growing in their own backyard?"

John Redman is scheduled to appear in a debate opposing Proposition 19 on September 11, 2010. Mr. Redman will be debating former Orange County Superior Court Judge James P. Gray at Irvine United Congregational Church, 4915 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA. The event will begin at 1:30pm.

wow 240,000 Cigarettes from one Cannabis plant.. These guys have their facts so not-right. It's not tobacco.

It is almost like they are only pandering to the ignorant.

So I can grow 25 8 foot tall plants in a 5x5 space? Wow I would love to talk to their Gardener that did that. I'm guessing they don't have proof.

That would be like 1,920,000 Joints per grow..

They should change the name from War on Drugs to "Too Stupid to Stop."

 

[JackTheGrower]

Ex-DEA Administrators Call on Obama to Sue if CA Voters Legalize Pot

Ex-DEA Administrators Call on Obama to Sue if CA Voters Legalize Pot

[ url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20016126-503544.html] Ex-DEA Administrators Call on Obama to Sue if CA Voters Legalize Pot [\url]

As California voters gear up for a November 2 vote on Proposition 19, a ballot measure that would legalize the growth, possession and distribution of marijuana, nine former administrators of the Drug Enforcement Administration have issued a preemptive call to the White House: If Prop 19 passes, they say, President Obama should sue.

The Associated Press reports that in an August 24 letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, the former DEA officials wrote that the potential legalization of marijuana would challenge federal authority and merit a lawsuit against the state - much like the one Mr. Obama has filed in protest of Arizona's controversial immigration law, which the administration say contradicts national policy.

"We would expect the Department of Justice to act just as swiftly and for the same reason," the DEA administrators said of the potential passage of Proposition 19.

The upcoming vote has incited heated national debate on the issue of cannabis legalization, and Californians once again find themselves in a position to set national precedent with a controversial ballot measure. If passed, Californians 21 and older would be the first Americans with the legal right to use marijuana recreationally.

Proponents of the measure argue that legalizing pot would allow for increased regulation of it, and that taxing the drug could bring much-needed revenue to the state. But Gil Kerlikowske, Obama's drug czar, argued in an op-ed to the Los Angeles Times that while it would be "impossible to predict precisely the consequences of wholesale legalization," he could say "with near certainty" that marijuana use would increase with the passage of Prop 19 - and so would the social costs associated with drug use.

But whether or not the Obama administration would be willing to intervene in the matter is unclear. The Justice Department has not issued a statement in response to the letter, and unlike with the case of immigration, the president has not made the legalization of marijuana a central focus of his political agenda.

Poor Sports all worried they will lose. States rights and the Voting public scare the shit out of them.

So what would a Decriminalized California do to their Apple Cart?

I for one am trying to stay cool as we are not in a position to declare victory yet. Our lasted poll numbers 47% approval to 43% against are really too close to call.
Voter turn out will decide the fate of Prop 19.