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When are People Too High To Drive?

vta

Active member
Veteran
When are People Too High To Drive?


cannabis California -- A cop pulls over a motorist who's driving like he's drunk, but the officer suspects the driver may be high on marijuana. Unlike with alcohol, there's no objective way for police to detect whether somebody is impaired while driving under the influence of marijuana. There's no breath test for THC, pot's active ingredient, and no 0.08 limit to drive like California law sets for alcohol in the blood.

Now, as Californians consider making the state the first in the country to legalize the recreational use of marijuana, police officials are concerned that Proposition 19 could put an extremely difficult burden on police: How will they determine whether a driver is too drugged to drive?

The blood alcohol concentration in one's breath pretty closely tracks how much booze is in a person's blood. Not so for THC, which is absorbed by the fat in a person's body and stays there for days or weeks after the marijuana is consumed.

That's because pot isn't metabolized by the body the same way alcohol is, said Steven Gust, an official at the National Institute on Drug Abuse. So just having THC in your system doesn't mean you're too intoxicated to drive.

That means officers base arrests only on observations, field sobriety tests and, ultimately, their judgment. To improve that judgment, the California Highway Patrol uses the Drug Recognition Expert program to train police throughout the state. More than 1,200 current officers have received the training and 55,000 arrests have been made using the program's evaluation techniques since 1992.

While there is no simple roadside THC test being used in California, police in Australia and parts of Europe have started using saliva tests during stops. Those are likely years away from general use and have raised some legal questions, Gust said.

But even if California police start using the saliva tests, the problem of no legal standard for THC intoxication remains.

Having a legal THC limit, for driving or public intoxication, hasn't been necessary because marijuana is illegal, said San Mateo Police Chief Susan Manheimer, who also heads the California Police Chiefs Association.

"It's a lot of science and years of work (to set a limit). Who's to say that any level is OK?" she asked.

The effect alcohol has on drivers has undergone decades of testing. The thousands of deaths attributed to drunken driving each year also pushed lawmakers and researchers to focus on coming up with a standard as well as increasingly stringent ways to enforce it, officials said.

Currently, prosecutors who want to prove drugged driving need to show the driver was under the influence and, as result, couldn't safely operate a vehicle. Prosecutors also need a positive drug test.

California has taken a less hard-line approach than that of 15 other states, including Arizona, Nevada and Utah, which have adopted the stance that any detectable level of THC is illegal. Manheimer said lack of a "per se" law, which makes illegal any detectable amount, and the unavailability of a simple roadside test have made it difficult to convict stoned drivers.

She predicted the situation will only get worse if voters pass Proposition 19 in November.

But Joshua Dale, head of the California DUI Lawyers Association, had this to say about Manheimer's concerns: "It's a bunch of hooey."

He said if an officer has made a valid arrest, the jury is good and so is the prosecutor, getting a drugged driving conviction is no easier or harder than in alcohol-related cases. If police want another layer of proof, he said, they should videotape and audio record stops for suspected driving under the influence. The evidence, if shown to a jury, will be enough to get a conviction as long as the person was impaired.

It's hard to say how big of a problem drugged driving already is in California because the Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't track the issue. But California arrested 214,800 drivers and convicted 162,000 of them of DUI, which includes drugs and alcohol, in 2008 -- the most recent year available.

A 2007 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration study does give an idea of drug use nationally among drivers. The survey found 16.3 percent of nighttime weekend drivers tested positive for drugs, including 8.6 percent who were using ?marijuana. The survey also found cocaine in 3.9 percent and over-the-counter and prescription drugs in 3.9 percent.

But Dale Gieringer, head of the California wing of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, asks, "So what?"

He said marijuana use was twice what it is now in 1979 and there wasn't an epidemic then of stoned drivers running over people or smashing into each other.

"We've been there before," he said. "There is no difference. Just enforce the law."

Source: Daily Democrat (Woodland, CA)
Author: Joshua Melvin, MediaNews Group
 

Kalicokitty

The cat that loves cannabis
Veteran
Drunk people always think they're fine to drive.

Myself, I know when I'm to high, and I don't drive, mostly because of super high paranoia rather then me thinking I won't be able to effectively control my car.
 

DevilWeed

Member
I find that the higher I am the slower I drive. That doesn't make it right, but i don't think it can be compared to alcohol. It's a tough issue...
 

Throwgar

Member
The problem here is that alcohol intoxication does NOT affect the body and mind the same way that marijuana intoxication does. It's apples and oranges. We need to do the same types of reaction time testing that we did for alcohol. PROVE that smoking pot makes for slower reaction times.
 

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
This is actually a good point and needs to be addressed. For one thing ppl have been driving high for over 40 years on cannabis and if this were a problem then there would be accidents everywhere. They have done tests with ppl on cannabis they have proven that they don't have problems driving it's alcohol and not cannabis that impairs you when you drive , and everyone knows it. Also they give you Cessamet which is a THC derivative that if they do give the so-called THC breathalizer test and detect THC in your system do you get pulled over for the presciption meds? This is just another money grab and we all know this aswell. peace out Headband707
 
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The new test will involve the officer quickly throwing a small toy ball at you and saying "think fast". If the ball bounces off your head you go to jail. If you catch it your free to go.
 
B

Buffoonman

I know I'm to stoned when I can't tell if a hill is up or down. Never had an accident though as normally will be doing about 15 miles an hour. If somebody beeps it's panic city.
 
I hate when people bring up this "issue": ya know, the whole "drug tests don't mean you're fucked up" thing.

It is indicative of the inherent unfairness in pre-employment drug tests, which don't measure if you're high right then, but if you have gotten high in the past couple of months. Thanks for not judging me by my character and skills, employers!

Similarly, the BAC limits (while valuable in many cases) are not the same for everybody. Personally, I've seen people get really drunk at BAC lower than the legal limit, and I've seen people not drunk at higher BAC (playing with a breathalyzer is kinda fun tho). Not advocating drunk driving (not by any means); just suggesting that it's not the absolutely flawless tool people sometimes think it is.

People love easy answers; black and white-ness makes things simple. That's why there's an exact number: .08 that means you're messed up, even if you were messed up at .04! Ridonkulous
 
B

Buffoonman

I've no doubt smoking can slow your reaction times but driving slower compensates this. In reality though its probably not a good idea to drive whilst to stoned.
 

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
You know I have to say that this WHOLE drug testing BS in the USA is really a bunch of horse shit and I'm so thankful they don't do that here and we run just FINE without it thanks. BTW if they brought that shit here I would fucking move ! I understand it if you have a pilot or somone incharge of a train but for the rest of you poor suckers give me a break here. What the hell do they think they are doing testing everyone for what they are putting in their mouths then judging them for the rest of their lives and not even looking at their talents?? WTF is going on here? Who came up with this idea and why the hell is it sticking? Why are the" people "not standing up and say WTF!!!!!?? The Gov is way too far in my business get the fuck out. You are just a Gov. remember this I elected you to run things and not into the ground the way you have been!!!! Can I get an AMEN!!! LOL peace out Headband707
 
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When are People Too High To Drive?


cannabis California -- A cop pulls over a motorist who's driving like he's drunk, but the officer suspects the driver may be high on marijuana. Unlike with alcohol, there's no objective way for police to detect whether somebody is impaired while driving under the influence of marijuana. There's no breath test for THC, pot's active ingredient, and no 0.08 limit to drive like California law sets for alcohol in the blood.

Now, as Californians consider making the state the first in the country to legalize the recreational use of marijuana, police officials are concerned that Proposition 19 could put an extremely difficult burden on police: How will they determine whether a driver is too drugged to drive?

The blood alcohol concentration in one's breath pretty closely tracks how much booze is in a person's blood. Not so for THC, which is absorbed by the fat in a person's body and stays there for days or weeks after the marijuana is consumed.

That's because pot isn't metabolized by the body the same way alcohol is, said Steven Gust, an official at the National Institute on Drug Abuse. So just having THC in your system doesn't mean you're too intoxicated to drive.

That means officers base arrests only on observations, field sobriety tests and, ultimately, their judgment. To improve that judgment, the California Highway Patrol uses the Drug Recognition Expert program to train police throughout the state. More than 1,200 current officers have received the training and 55,000 arrests have been made using the program's evaluation techniques since 1992.

While there is no simple roadside THC test being used in California, police in Australia and parts of Europe have started using saliva tests during stops. Those are likely years away from general use and have raised some legal questions, Gust said.

But even if California police start using the saliva tests, the problem of no legal standard for THC intoxication remains.

Having a legal THC limit, for driving or public intoxication, hasn't been necessary because marijuana is illegal, said San Mateo Police Chief Susan Manheimer, who also heads the California Police Chiefs Association.

"It's a lot of science and years of work (to set a limit). Who's to say that any level is OK?" she asked.

The effect alcohol has on drivers has undergone decades of testing. The thousands of deaths attributed to drunken driving each year also pushed lawmakers and researchers to focus on coming up with a standard as well as increasingly stringent ways to enforce it, officials said.

Currently, prosecutors who want to prove drugged driving need to show the driver was under the influence and, as result, couldn't safely operate a vehicle. Prosecutors also need a positive drug test.

California has taken a less hard-line approach than that of 15 other states, including Arizona, Nevada and Utah, which have adopted the stance that any detectable level of THC is illegal. Manheimer said lack of a "per se" law, which makes illegal any detectable amount, and the unavailability of a simple roadside test have made it difficult to convict stoned drivers.

She predicted the situation will only get worse if voters pass Proposition 19 in November.

But Joshua Dale, head of the California DUI Lawyers Association, had this to say about Manheimer's concerns: "It's a bunch of hooey."

He said if an officer has made a valid arrest, the jury is good and so is the prosecutor, getting a drugged driving conviction is no easier or harder than in alcohol-related cases. If police want another layer of proof, he said, they should videotape and audio record stops for suspected driving under the influence. The evidence, if shown to a jury, will be enough to get a conviction as long as the person was impaired.

It's hard to say how big of a problem drugged driving already is in California because the Department of Motor Vehicles doesn't track the issue. But California arrested 214,800 drivers and convicted 162,000 of them of DUI, which includes drugs and alcohol, in 2008 -- the most recent year available.

A 2007 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration study does give an idea of drug use nationally among drivers. The survey found 16.3 percent of nighttime weekend drivers tested positive for drugs, including 8.6 percent who were using ?marijuana. The survey also found cocaine in 3.9 percent and over-the-counter and prescription drugs in 3.9 percent.

But Dale Gieringer, head of the California wing of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, asks, "So what?"

He said marijuana use was twice what it is now in 1979 and there wasn't an epidemic then of stoned drivers running over people or smashing into each other.

"We've been there before," he said. "There is no difference. Just enforce the law."

Source: Daily Democrat (Woodland, CA)
Author: Joshua Melvin, MediaNews Group


hell myself i smoke some DJ Blueberry then hit the track the blueberry seems to help with R/A (reaction Times) off the line
 
It's more about how experienced the smoker is than how much they have smoked that day. Novice smokers might want to avoid driving until they are used to being high. Veterans should have no problem at almost any dose.
 
M

Magic Man

I get smoked out and drive all the time, even taking 2-3 joints with me if it's going to be a long trip. Always keep them close enough to eat quick if i have to though :yes:
 

Faraway

Member
Was driving slow the other day a little high. Went through an intersection & then FLASH...Oh shit, I think my pic was taken...front of my car was just shy of the otherside. So now I'm waiting for the ticket in the mail. If I wasn't high I would have floored it, then slam on the brakes so I would hit anyone. I got a ticket because I got high, as the song goes.
 
N

Nick Sand

I have never been too high to drive off of weed and I don't know anyone who has been. I am talking a whole pan of brownies stoned here. Sleep deprived... now that is a different story.

Was driving slow the other day a little high. Went through an intersection & then FLASH...Oh shit, I think my pic was taken...front of my car was just shy of the otherside. So now I'm waiting for the ticket in the mail. If I wasn't high I would have floored it, then slam on the brakes so I would hit anyone. I got a ticket because I got high, as the song goes.


I thought that the traffic cameras were ruled unconstitutional in the US. Where are you located?
 

!!!

Now in technicolor
Veteran
The whole idea of trying to determine how much of a drug is in a person's blood to determine their ability to drive is ridiculous. It's idiotic and I'm surprised people take it at face value.

Sure there's an alcohol test. Maybe they'll make a pot test when it's legal, but what about an Ambien test? A Benadryl test? A test for people too tired? A test for people with road rage?

I can chain smoke fat blunts and I'll still be good to drive. But sometimes I'll be completely sober and VERY tired and NOT OK to drive at all. In fact, I've nearly gotten into accidents, the only thing waking me up are the sudden horns I hear from a car I'm about to collide into because I'm falling zZz on the wheel.

I can't drive on Ambien. I sleep walk on Ambien, and there are reports of people driving on Ambien without any recollection of doing so. I also can't drive if I take too much Benadryl or too much of a benzo. Once I tried driving on shrooms and the road started rippling and I couldn't tell if lights were green or red—I just left the car and walked home.

We need a way to test if a person is ABLE to drive REGARDLESS of what is in his system. Some people are just bad drivers sober or not. We need a way to test a person's coordination and decision making in real time—Oh it's called a field sobriety test. The current tests suck but this is the direction we should be going.
 

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