Why I am voting no on prop 19!

[Bacchus]

I do not understand how being able to legally grow a garden in my back yard is NOT a step for freedom?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

It all depends on what other freedoms are being taken away or if penalties for existing offenses are going to be ramped up.

When the government opens a door it shuts five others. Nobody gets something for free... unless you're a congressman.

 

[215forLife]

It all depends on what other freedoms are being taken away or if penalties for existing offenses are going to be ramped up.

When the government opens a door it shuts five others. Nobody gets something for free... unless you're a congressman.

Totally agree!!

Here is what it says in the initiative about that very issue:
"(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;"

Basically the initiative will allow LOCAL governments to make up whatever penalty they want if you didn't buy your weed from a license holder like Richard Lee. If that tax stamp isn't on your ounce of weed you still go to jail, you still get fined. So much for the little guy...

 

[krunchbubble]

Oh and here is yet ANOTHER CALIFORNIA LAWYER SINGING THE SAME TUNE I HAVE FOR THE LAST YEAR NOW.

damn, all the bashing and you guys dont even consider that this thread may be the truth. i bet most of you didn't even get past paragraph 2 before your anger took over and decided to belittle 215forlife.

he showed actual proof from attorneys in his thread, who know the cannabis law. im sure there word is a little bit more regarded then some smokers who think they know how its going to go down on this forum.

open your eyes, you were just shown proof how prop19 will effect medical patients. instead of causing shit, maybe read a little, you may learn a thing or two?....

 

[echo_chamber]

Sorry, Marijuana is just a plant, you cant make plants illegal, and you cant defend keeping Marijuana illegal, that makes zero sense....

Too much information, too complicated. The reality is there is NOT ONE GOOD REASON for a plant to remain illegal. All laws in the United States are Amendable, nothing is set in stone. We dont want Marijuana illegal because we can go to jail for it, not because some corporation or politician will make some money on passing this legislation, dont be rediculous. This whole movement is about keeping people out of jail. I'm really surprised many of you are in support of keeping our brothers and sisters in Law Enforcements scope by voting no on this bill, just so you can feel good that "corporate america" is not cashing in on a new trade..hilarious....

The ONLY reason this legalization law is up for adoption is ONLY because of the bad economy, we will not be getting another chance at keeping everybody out of prison for marijuana posession again anytime soon.

Those of you voting against this are against the Government/Corporations making money on Marijuana which is part & parcel with LIVING IN AMERICA.. This is a CAPITALIST country, and you want to get off tax free legally, not ever gonna happen, and never has worked that way.

The reality is with this bill nothing changes other than people will be able to possess up to an ounce and grow for their personal use, the only people this screws over are:

Law Enforcement
Black Market Growers
Drug Cartels.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Ask her yourself then... ask Dale G too... He doesn't seem to throw around the insults like some of you.

So your parading around some second hand emails that are witten by people who obviously have stakes in 215 praying that 19 fails and this is some how supposed to substantiate an argument in your favor?

Its obvious they cant even convince themselfs of their own bullshit.

Heres some example ..... except unlike lekita pepper and dale g, I will provide EVIDENCE to back up my statements rather than biased specultion

Let's say you had two pounds of marijuana from what you managed to save from YEARS of growing under Prop. 19's restrictive limits, since the pro-19 folks are telling people you can legally hang onto anything you can grow and save from year to year -- despite Prop. 19's ounce limits. (Theoretically, I think this claim is true, based on the Prop's language. Practically speaking, I doubt most MM patients would be able to save anything from year to year, since growing one "garden of 25 square feet/1 plant is not enough for most people's problems, and certainly not enough when two or more patients in one household have to share a plot as required.)
> A warrant to search inside would turn up your hoarded two pounds -- and bingo! it's now up to you to defend yourself from a charge of growing for sale!

(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.

Right there in the language. THE RESULTS OF ANY HARVEST AND PROCESSING. Which means you could have 500lbs in your house. DEA says 1 plant = 1 lb. Maybe i grew 500 plants in a 5x5. They cant prove shit and it was written for no possession amounts in your residence. Plain, simple, clear.

Prop. 19 only "excepts," for medical purposes as previoulsy allowed in 11362.5, "possession and consumption" -- not cultiavtion and dsitribution. So if Prop. 19 passes, patients have no right to cultivate more than everyone else, and no right to distribute via collectives.

6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.


8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

Again, its like these people are either too ignorant to understand the language, didnt bother reading it, or more likely are just misinterpreting the language to misguide voters into voting NO. And wehn they come out and say they are workingfor dispensaries, its obvious you can no longer take what they say unbiasedly.



>>>>i call em like i see em. you keep bringing this same bullshit to the table, then when we prove that this is all speculated hearsay bullshit,, you just run off and start a new thread hoping to draw peoples attention that havent fine toothed combed your 215 fear mongering. but ill make sure that you dont fool anyone.

keep making these threads,, ill keep showing people what a hidden interest asshole you really are.

damn, all the bashing and you guys dont even consider that this thread may be the truth. i bet most of you didn't even get past paragraph 2 before your anger took over and decided to belittle 215forlife.

he showed actual proof from attorneys in his thread, who know the cannabis law. im sure there word is a little bit more regarded then some smokers who think they know how its going to go down on this forum.

open your eyes, you were just shown proof how prop19 will effect medical patients. instead of causing shit, maybe read a little, you may learn a thing or two?....

Why in he fuck would I believe a dispensary's lawyer WHO OBVIOUSLY HAS ALOT TO LOSE IF 19 PASSES.....???

Thats like McDonald's lawyer telling you that big macs wont clog your arteries..... but hey HES A LAWYER RIGHT... and when do lawyers ever lie?????

The CA STATE LEGAL ANALYSIS has already gone through prop 19 and paints a far different picture then what this asshole whos making alot of money representing dispensaries has to say about it.



hmmmm who will i believe? the lawyer whos profiting off 215. or the lawyer whos paid by the state of california to draft an analysis on an upcoming proposition in the november election...

i wonder i wonder i wonder....

 

[guest456mpy]

krunchbubble,
You are quite wise, but miss the point.
Lawyers are officers of the court. If it's legal they will lose money on the cases no longer tried. It is in their interest to keep it illegal, including spins to make you vote their way. Anyone who wants to keep it illegal is only trying to make money.

We cannot waste the momentum built up towards legalization, just so folks can earn some money. It's just not right.

 

[lost in a sea]

you guys need decriminalisation so that you have the right to freely grow the plant,,

if you willingly vote for legalisation then you are like all the other idiots that were tempted by the apple,, bite it and you swap more rights for privileges from the state,,

all these people that think that it will make the world a better place are kidding yourselves,, it wont change anything apart from give the authorities more powers over you in cali,, and potentially create a postition where people start expecting corporations to grow them their dope..

its bad news,,

and they just play all the idiots that want to believe in the system over and over and over again,,,

and lawyers stand to make money either way so that bull

 

[echo_chamber]

All American laws are amendable. If this bill can "pass" it can be ammended.. I still have not seen ONE good reason to keep Marijuana, a plant, illegal, putting millions of Americans at risk of losing their freedom, job & stability...

you guys need decriminalisation so that you have the right to freely grow the plant,,

if you willingly vote for legalisation then you are like all the other idiots that were tempted by the apple,, bite it and you swap more rights for privileges from the state,,

all these people that think that it will make the world a better place are kidding yourselves,, it wont change anything apart from give the authorities more powers over you,, and potentially create a postition where people start expecting corporations to grow them their dope..

they just play all the idiots that want to believe in the system

 

[lost in a sea]

i cant believe that (in the most corrupt country in the world!) you guys believe in all this,,

america is fucked

the crown only tightens its grip and you guys are calling for it

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

>>>

Ask her yourself then... ask Dale G too... He doesn't seem to throw around the insults like some of you.

So your parading around some second hand emails that are witten by people who obviously have stakes in 215 praying that 19 fails and this is some how supposed to substantiate an argument in your favor?

Its obvious they cant even convince themselfs of their own bullshit.

Heres some example ..... except unlike lekita pepper and dale g, I will provide EVIDENCE to back up my statements rather than biased specultion

Let's say you had two pounds of marijuana from what you managed to save from YEARS of growing under Prop. 19's restrictive limits, since the pro-19 folks are telling people you can legally hang onto anything you can grow and save from year to year -- despite Prop. 19's ounce limits. (Theoretically, I think this claim is true, based on the Prop's language. Practically speaking, I doubt most MM patients would be able to save anything from year to year, since growing one "garden of 25 square feet/1 plant is not enough for most people's problems, and certainly not enough when two or more patients in one household have to share a plot as required.)
> A warrant to search inside would turn up your hoarded two pounds -- and bingo! it's now up to you to defend yourself from a charge of growing for sale!

(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.

Right there in the language. THE RESULTS OF ANY HARVEST AND PROCESSING. Which means you could have 500lbs in your house. DEA says 1 plant = 1 lb. Maybe i grew 500 plants in a 5x5. They cant prove shit and it was written for no possession amounts in your residence. Plain, simple, clear.

Prop. 19 only "excepts," for medical purposes as previoulsy allowed in 11362.5, "possession and consumption" -- not cultiavtion and dsitribution. So if Prop. 19 passes, patients have no right to cultivate more than everyone else, and no right to distribute via collectives.

6. Provide easier, safer access for patients who need cannabis for medical purposes.


8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

Again, its like these people are either too ignorant to understand the language, didnt bother reading it, or more likely are just misinterpreting the language to misguide voters into voting NO. And wehn they come out and say they are workingfor dispensaries, its obvious you can no longer take what they say unbiasedly.



>>>>i call em like i see em. you keep bringing this same bullshit to the table, then when we prove that this is all speculated hearsay bullshit,, you just run off and start a new thread hoping to draw peoples attention that havent fine toothed combed your 215 fear mongering. but ill make sure that you dont fool anyone.

keep making these threads,, ill keep showing people what a hidden interest asshole you really are.

damn, all the bashing and you guys dont even consider that this thread may be the truth. i bet most of you didn't even get past paragraph 2 before your anger took over and decided to belittle 215forlife.

he showed actual proof from attorneys in his thread, who know the cannabis law. im sure there word is a little bit more regarded then some smokers who think they know how its going to go down on this forum.

open your eyes, you were just shown proof how prop19 will effect medical patients. instead of causing shit, maybe read a little, you may learn a thing or two?....

Why in he fuck would I believe a dispensary's lawyer WHO OBVIOUSLY HAS ALOT TO LOSE IF 19 PASSES.....???

Thats like McDonald's lawyer telling you that big macs wont clog your arteries..... but hey HES A LAWYER RIGHT... and when do lawyers ever lie?????

The CA STATE LEGAL ANALYSIS has already gone through prop 19 and paints a far different picture then what this asshole whos making alot of money representing dispensaries has to say about it.



hmmmm who will i believe? the lawyer whos profiting off 215. or the lawyer whos paid by the state of california to draft an analysis on an upcoming proposition in the november election...

i wonder i wonder i wonder....

 

[echo_chamber]

i cant believe that (in the most corrupt country in the world!) you guys believe in all this,,

america is fucked

I hear ya, but the reality is we are governed by the laws of this corrupt government, which we do have a say in changing. Thus this bill being put forward...

What i cant wrap my head around is how someone can support marijuana being ILLEGAL for any reason... How someone could support keeping something illegal over monetary reasons is inexcusable...

Every human has the natural born right to smoke and grow any plant they desire, its a matter of the rest of you catching up to that fact.. Dont let money or politics influence your opinion, that is not what this is about...

 

[guest456mpy]

you guys need decriminalization so that you have the right to freely grow the plant,,

if you willingly vote for legalisation then you are like all the other idiots that were tempted by the apple,, bite it and you swap more rights for privileges from the state,,

Actually if cannabis is decriminalized there can still be penalties for cultivation or possession, you need to get your terms straight. Decriminalization could possibly lead to legalization, or actually re-legalization, which is the ultimate goal.

 

[lost in a sea]

decriminalisation is the abolition of criminal penalties,, through law courts anyway. seperating it from the state..

they are so clever at shit like this,, always fucking us more and more and hiding it behind something that sounds like you are getting more rights..

whilst it is illegal here (not in N america) i have a pure relationship with my plants,, and that is more important to me than growing legally with tags around the stems of my plants,, and filling out forms for the state to keep tabs on me and when i am growing too much,,

fuck em

 

[Hazelnuts]

Totally agree!!

Here is what it says in the initiative about that very issue:
"(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;"

Basically the initiative will allow LOCAL governments to make up whatever penalty they want if you didn't buy your weed from a license holder like Richard Lee. If that tax stamp isn't on your ounce of weed you still go to jail, you still get fined. So much for the little guy...

Well durr, of course there's gonna be a punishment for illegal weed, just like there's a set punishment for illegally distilled liquor right now. And if you think Richard Lee can take over ALL of California, you should get back in your nuclear bunker and put on your tinfoil hat. And no, if that tax stamp isn't on the ounce of weed, you just say you grew it at home, as it's set to be legal in prop 19, since you're gonna be allowed to carry one ounce of weed around no matter if you bought it in a legal store, in a med. dispensary (then you'll be allowed to carry a lot more) or grew it yourself.

 

[echo_chamber]

decriminalisation is the abolition of criminal penalties,, completely seperating it from the state..

they are so clever at shit like this,, always fucking us more and more and hiding it behind something that sounds like you are getting more rights..

So you are saying even though the law is passed, it will not be legal to possess up to one ounce or grow a 5x5 for personal use, keeping you out of jail within those limits, until complete federal legalization takes place?

 

[guest456mpy]

decriminalisation is the abolition of criminal penalties,, completely seperating it from the state..

I like the world you live in, too bad it's not reality.

Vote your way and I'll vote mine, but I'm not fooled by the likes of you.

 

[IWanaGetHiSoHi]

reality is we are governed by the laws of this corrupt government, which we do have a say in changing. Thus this bill being put forward...

Exactly what say do you think "we" have in changing anything when the Govt is concerned? Maybe you've been living with blinders on? Your Vote Does Not Matter. Your Opinion Does Not Matter. The Truth Does Not Matter. All that matters in the eyes of the Govt is cashing out before they're sussed out as the Criminals they really are ...

 

[Kalicokitty]

to put Lee's competition (the small and medium growers) out of business.

This your fear, that you will be out of business, plain and simple.
This is the reason for the giant propaganda sandwich your OP is.

DO you really think that anyone believes that several commercial growers here suddenly became "Men of principle" and are concerned about the poor in rental housing, or taxs, or 1 oz carry limits?

Come on, you're insulting everyones intelligence here when you try to claim that.

I've said before I would have more respect for these people if they would just come out and say "fuck everyone else, I got a good thing going here, and I don't want it to change"
I can understand that, I think it's selfish and short sighted, but I can appreciate it, the economy sucks, and you're worried about your income.
Just please stop pretending it's something more noble then that, because we all know it isn't

 

[igrowone]

i do get a kick out of people that define words however they want to
if decriminalization was legalization, it would be called legalization
NY has decriminalization for MJ, had it for years, and believe me, MJ is not legal in NY