couple questions regarding pH drift

[fargone]

Ok, This is my first grow. I'm running a DIY aerocloner as a mother cab of sorts (providing my one and only plant is a female). I plan on building a proper mother cab once it shows sex.

Alright where I'm running into trouble at the moment is understanding my pH levels better and what they mean along with my ppm count.

I'm familiar with the old adage of ph goes up ppm goes down- plants require more nutes and the like. I don't know that this is where my problem lies.

Ok, to the issuse at hand my pH is mentally retarded. I use straight tap water after it's been left sitting for a minimum of 48 hours to let the chlorine evaporate. The pH of said tap water is usually around 7.4 but I have seen it as high as 8.1 O_O with a ppm count that's fairly steady around 140ppm.

Ok, so I'm currently using the lucas formula with just FNgrow no additives or anything of the like. I add the nutes(shakeshakeshake) to the water and mix mix mix, the pH after adding nutes is at 6.5 steady( I do have a tri-meter got it for 100!). At this point i shake the crap outta my pH down which i purchased at my local shop. I added my pH down bringing my pH to 5.6(not 100% sure if this is a good starting point or not) This is when it gets a bit stupid for me, the pH starts it's quick climb north. Over the course of an hour it went up from 5.6 to 6.0. This was last night at around 10pm i figured i'd let it settle and see what it was at in the morning. well it went up to 6.3. I've tried aquarium ph down also with pretty much the same results it just took longer to spike back up but does eventually reach 6.3ish

So I'm wondering is it possible that my pH down is of lower quality(it is the shops brand not GH or anything)?. And thus causing me headaches. The plant looks healthy still with just some minor crinkling of early fan leaves which i assume I did by accidentally dropping the pH down to 4.5 for about 15-20 minutes. All new growth looks ok to me...


I've already mixed up a new batch of nutes because i was afraid of the ph down becoming so strong that it was toxic to my plant.

Ya the pH went up .2 just while i was typing this any ideas?

 

[robbiedublu]

I've never understood why new growers start out using a hydro system. Too many variables for someone with no experience. Switch to soil or coco is my advice. Sorry I cant answer your question, it could be many different things. If your grow shop sells their own brand of pH adjustors I would start by asking them what the problem might be.

 

[fargone]

To be honest I started with hydro because the equipment was readily available to me at low to no cost, I did jump off the deep and tho didn't i lol

 

[stillsmokin843]

No worries that just what it does. I guess it changes from your medium after a week or 2 it will stablize but will still drift. Just not as irratic. Ya have the meter so no worries make sure ya get the solution to calibrate you tester. Make sure it stays accurate. You'll get it good luck

 

[fargone]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I calibrated yesterday as well using 4.0ph and 7.0ph and 1500ppm fluids.

Drifting all the way up to 6.3 is ok? should I just monitor it and make sure it doesnt go much farther north or maybe i'll get lucky and it'll drop and stabilize?

 

[El Toker]

To be honest I started with hydro because the equipment was readily available to me at low to no cost, I did jump off the deep and tho didn't i lol

Hydro is much more forgiving than soil for beginners. If you mess up the nutrients all you have to do is empty the reservoir and start again, not an option for soil growers.

pH is OK anywhere between 5.1 and 6.5. pH can rise or fall, a sharp fall usually indicates the start of root rot. It usually rises and that's easily managed with a few drops of phosphoric acid.

There's no need to let the water stand for 24 hours, that's for tropical fish that don't like chlorine. Cannabis plants don't have a problem with it, in fact it probably helps reduce infections in the hydro system, that's why it's in the water in the first place.

 

[Bush Dr]

Are you aerating the rez?

Because that'll usually cause the pH to rise

 

[stillsmokin843]

Didn't say it was ok its just what it does 5.8 to 6.2 is what I keep 6.3 won't kill nothin just keep an eye on it. They say plants take in diff nutes at varied ph levels. So guess mabey it is kinda of a good thing. Make sure your using the right soulition it should only be 2 kinds one for ph and one for ppm depends on the unit some 1500 and some use 1382 just read and make sure its the right one for your model number. Hope that answerd any q. Hope it works out for ya

 

[fargone]

Are you aerating the rez?

Because that'll usually cause the pH to rise

Nope, only aeration going on is from the droplets going back into the res. which i'm sure is tiny. I was thinking about adding one tho..thoughts?

Didn't say it was ok its just what it does 5.8 to 6.2 is what I keep 6.3 won't kill nothin just keep an eye on it. They say plants take in diff nutes at varied ph levels. So guess mabey it is kinda of a good thing. Make sure your using the right soulition it should only be 2 kinds one for ph and one for ppm depends on the unit some 1500 and some use 1382 just read and make sure its the right one for your model number. Hope that answerd any q. Hope it works out for ya

Yup, my meter requires 4.0/7.0/1500ppm, all in line on that one. nute uptake is def my main concern here, I'm starting to feel I might have had my first unnecessary freak out tho I have been reading for about a year but i guess until you experience something you really have no idea wtf you're doing. Thank you for your time Stillsmokin843 i appreciate it.

 

[!!!]

Starting out with hydro is fine. I don't think anyone should start out with coco/soil if they plan on migrating straight to hydro asap. You'll have to go through the learning curves anyway and none of it is really as hard as it seems. pH up makes the pH go up, down does the opposite, the pH and ppm need to be at a specific level, and you have to water continuously or a # of times per day (as in ebb/flow) and that's honestly all you need to know to grow good bud in hydro.

Anyway what chemicals are listed on your pH up and down bottles? A good product will contain a chemical that remains stable and doesn't break down. Using things like vinegar as pH down will work temporarily but slowly begin raising your pH again.

Are you checking pH of an active res (w/ plants) or you're seeing the water pH fluctuate while sitting dormant in a bucket somewhere?

Before you use any pH down, does the water pH fluctuate? Try keeping the water in the same environment as your res and check if the pH changes after you add nutes and before adding pH down, to see where the problem lies.

Have you tried distilled water?

As for aeration, you can put an air pump to go on when the water pump goes on (same timer) if you don't want it running continuously.

 

[stillsmokin843]

Yes you definatly want to make sure any hydro unit is getting plenty of air you can use air pumps or areators waterfalls or other ways for a cloner (think that's what ya said)id just use an air pump. Hydro always has to have air or you'll get some major problemss good luck

 

[desertsquirrel]

The size of your rezz also effects the rate in which your ph will swing.... Bigger rezz, more stable the ph/ec.

Shoot for 5.2 ph btw. And defiantly get an air stone as recommended.

 

[spangles]

Good to know about the vinegar. Thanks

 

[fargone]

Figured I'd let everyone know how things turned out for me. I called up the local shop and asked them what was in their pH down and none of the 3 guys on shift knew exactly what the house brand stuff was, so I went and picked up some GH pH down.

I changed the res yet again just to make sure of no ph down poisoning going on again, the GH pH down is obviously a much higher quality product because i set it to 5.6 yesterday around 6-7pm and it's still currently at 5.6.

Lesson: It doesn't always save you money in the long run to go with the cheaper stuff because you might end up buying 2 or 3 of something to make up for your cheapness.


I do plan on getting an air pump for my res. I was wondering if someone could recommend me a good airstone type because i keep reading about them clogging and becoming useless, maybe a circular diffuser tube?. Also, what size of pump should i get for 25-30litres of res?

Desertaquirrel
I'm a bit leery of going down to 5.2ph, is this the proper range to start in? i did see the black and white graph that seems to indicate that 5.2-5.3 seems to free up most of the nutes for uptake? then the neon one says 5.8 so i went somewhere in the middle. maybe i should just step it down .1 or .2 every few hours so as to not shock the plant?


Btw plant still growing furiously and healthy as ever, so thanks again everyone!

 

[desertsquirrel]

Ph doesn't really matter until you have roots (why worry about uptake w/o roots to uptake right?)

But yes i like the black and white chart, and that seems to be the one most icmaggers are using for hydro... When the girls are eating proper the swing from 5.2 to 5.5 is a matter of a day or even hours, ph i s ia living thing, planning for drift is beneficial IMO. Using the cutting edge cal/mag amps my initial ph is as low as 4.4. With in 2-3 days im almost at 6 and then it's time to ph down again.

(still working out some bug/beneficial issues so my ph swings a bit harder then most dialed rezzes but not by a huge amount).

 

[fargone]

I may have mislead somewhere in the original post but my plant does have roots about 2 feet in length lol. All nice and bright white too.

To clarify. I'm using an "aerocloner" to house my mother plant until i get the mother box built.

I do agree with you that ph drift is a good thing, based on what I've read. I may have over reacted a bit because of how rapidly it was changing...seemed to be something amiss and luckily i found out what it was. lesson learned.