EZ Cloner Problem, please help

[F. Dupp]

I recently bought a 120 site ez cloner and on thursday I filled the rez with 22 gallons RO water and 22 teaspoons of hygrozyme. I then added 50 cuttings. I used the Hygrozyme because the water temp is about 81 degrees. After adding the Hygrozyme my PH was at 6.2, just where I wanted it, so I added nothing else. On friday the PH was still 6.2, and I added another 70 cuts. Then today I checked the PH and it was 7.4 It went up that much in about 20 hours. What is going on in my rez? I cant find any slime, or smell any funk. Does anyone know what caused the PH jump?


Im kinda freaking out here.I run a perpetual aero system and use no mother plants, so if these clones dont root Im basically fucked as the plants I took the clones off of are now 8 days into flower.

 

[accessndx]

First off: if all hell broke loose and you lost every single clone......your other plants are only 8 days into flower. So you do have those as potential reveg. plants.....and if you're desperate enough, you can still take cuts while they are in flowering at any time. It will just take longer to revert back to a vegative state in longer light cycles.......and it may be a bit shocky for the plant. But it will work in almost all cases.

A word of advice for you since you don't utilize mother plants: When you are taking clones, get enough for the EZ cloner. When you're done, take a few extra......wrap the ends of the stems in a moistened paper towel, all together in a bunch. Not too wet, not too dry. Don't expose alot of the leaves....try to just envelop the bottom-most stem. Then take the wrapped clones and put them in a large ziploc bag. Put those in your refrigerator crisper. They'll keep like that for 2 weeks....even without light or additional water. I've had clones like that as backup and utilized them by slowly warming them back up to room temperature....and then placing them into the EZ cloner. Works like a cryogenic stasis.....not all plants will survive...but surprisingly enough will. So that gives you another 2 week buffer to avoid disaster.

Now: as far as your other problem: I'd make sure you clean the EZ-Cloner after each cycle of clones is done.......with bleach. Exactly the way they direct you to in the directions that come with it. pH can drift because of microbiotic organisms like bacteria......and quite possibly because of the addition of hygrozyme.......

Try to run the water in the EZ Cloner as cleanly as possible......and if necessary add some frozen water bottles into the reservoir to keep down the temperature.

Then shear numbers of clones will enable you to keep a sizable and healthy population to cull from. Overall: don't worry as much with the EZ Cloner if you keep it clean and cool....
I hardly check pH in mine.....don't even know what it is......typically just set it and forget it. If stuff starts looking unhealthy for no reason, I start investigating.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[F. Dupp]

I have had to reveg flowered clones before and it sucks. The plants end up twisted and branchy. As Im running perpetual, Im on a timeline. I have 3 weeks for clones, 3 weeks for veg, and 9 for flower. Any little hiccup in the program creates havoc.

Taking backups is good advice and I will do that next time. Taking more clones now is not really an option as I have stripped the 84 flowering plants of all lower branches.

The clones all look very healthy and are reaching for the sky, but the PH jump concerns me greatly. This is only my second run with the EZ cloner. The first went off without a hitch, but my temps were around 72 at that time as I had not set up the T5 lighting for the veg plants yet. I didnt use Hygrozyme the first time though. I did wash it out thoroughly using Dawn dishsoap with bleach alternative, then ran H2o2 thru the system with hot water for an hour.

Should I drain the rez? Should I add H2o2?

 

[F. Dupp]

Maybe earthworm casting tea? Or is it too late for that?

 

[jarff]

I use a 49 site aero cloner....I use super thrive with the ph at 6.1.Usually in two or three days my ph jumps to 7 +or-..I just add some down to 6.1 +or- and in three or four more days I have roots....been trying rock wool for yrs then I discovered the aero cloner and I,ll never use anything but that from now on.
If Hygrozyme works for you great but I swore off it a few yrs ago as I always had root rot in my DWC system when I introduced the Hygrozyme before three weeks of growth.....
good luck

jarff

 

[Marshall]

i dont know if that bleach alternative is going to sterilize the cloner. I ran a 120 site cloner and eventually went back to coco plugs. Proper cleaning is extremely important.

I would not add anything to the cloner. I would dump it and just use water and keep the water cool. since the cloner may not have been cleaned properly, I would change water frequently.

I would not worry about PH. I may be wrong but PH affects nutrient uptake right? But since you have no roots, there is no nutrient uptake? So PH really isnt an issue is there?


Access has some good points

 

[F. Dupp]

I use a 49 site aero cloner....I use super thrive with the ph at 6.1.Usually in two or three days my ph jumps to 7 +or-..I just add some down to 6.1 +or- and in three or four more days I have roots....been trying rock wool for yrs then I discovered the aero cloner and I,ll never use anything but that from now on.
If Hygrozyme works for you great but I swore off it a few yrs ago as I always had root rot in my DWC system when I introduced the Hygrozyme before three weeks of growth.....
good luck

jarff

I cant say that Hygrozyme works for me. I just bought some because in my new room the temps are alot higher. I read that the Hygrozyme would combat this. I have since read about the brown algae related to using Hygrozyme with tap water, which is kind of freaking me out. But I use RO water with a ppm of 004, so there would be very little chance of slime spores slipping thru the filter.

 

[F. Dupp]

i dont know if that bleach alternative is going to sterilize the cloner. I ran a 120 site cloner and eventually went back to coco plugs. Proper cleaning is extremely important.

I would not add anything to the cloner. I would dump it and just use water and keep the water cool. since the cloner may not have been cleaned properly, I would change water frequently.

I would not worry about PH. I may be wrong but PH affects nutrient uptake right? But since you have no roots, there is no nutrient uptake? So PH really isnt an issue is there?


Access has some good points

I did clean it very well. I would have eaten off it when I was done. And the H2o2 sterilizes, does it not?

The PH doesnt corcern me for nutrient uptake, it leads me to believe that something is possibly growing in there besides roots.

 

[accessndx]

Clean the res. F that "bleach alternative". Get bleach. Then wash out the res mutliple times to get the bleach out of the system. I typically don't add anything at all to the res.....keep it oxygenated with the air pump.....and keep it in a relatively cool place. Give it ample lighting, but not overkill.....and let nature do the rest. There are going to be clones that die for whatever reason. Expect an 80% success rate with the EZ tho. If it gets markedly worse than that, you need to evaluate how you're taking the clones....and if there's something more odd going on that's not observable yet.
Go back to basics with it. Definitely use the backup method in case of the worst case scenario......just like 5 or 10 really healthy ones. They'll for sure be good for 1 week....pretty close to 100% success in reviving them in the EZ cloner. At 2 weeks, it drops, but I'd say you'd be at 60-70% range. Not too shabby. I've even seen some go markedly longer, but the revival rate precipitously drops.
I would strongly suggest you do employ the use of "mother" plants. Don't know how people do without them. All it takes is relatively minimal lighting.....quite possibly in the 100 watt range for healthy growth on a reasonable scale. Small space.....keeping the healthiest clones as new moms.
It would surely save you all this agida.
Keep in mind that plants in a cloner are experiencing metabolic and physiologic processes in the production of roots......that clearly should have some impact on the recycled water in the reservoir. There has to be bacteria flora of some type because there's no sterile natural surface on the planet. Even the water used contains multiple different microorganisms.......all that jazz has to do something somewhere chemically to alter the pH even if it's slight.
So, again: don't freak. Smoke pot. Clean your res....take clones, be fruitful and multiply.

 

[jarff]

F.Dupp I,ve always used RO water with Hygrozyme and still got slimed.I wasn,t aware that it helped with high temps either....I used to love it until I lost a big garden b,cause of the brown alagae...but I know lots of ppl. who swear by it.
I grow in soil a lot now and have been tempted to try the Hygrozyme again..I think I would probably do alright with it....or I may just try it on some of the potted plants.....
jarff

 

[Cutty]

Oh buddy, you are about to have problems.

I have a 120 also:



I have killed many rounds of clones too. I know what works for me, so listen up and ask questions.

Hygrozyme is a no no, forget it, get it out of there. THIS HAS CAUSED ME SLIME. With the best intentions I put it in there and I am certain it was the source of my slime issue in a DIY and ®.

81° is too warm, but lower the temperature, don't buffer it with additives.

Putting RO water in an EZ-Cloner is a waste. I did, then I did filtered water and now I run STRAIGHT TAP, with chlorine and everything.

In fact, I bill the straight tap water as a cornerstone of my success. That and one simple mod:

This is under five dollars at Lowes and makes res changes a snap.

It's a shut-off for a hose.



I tell you I tried it all. Hygrozyme, ice bottles, hormones, EWC tea (this did show some promise) but what dialed it in for me was frequent water changes.
At least every two days I would drain about half of the water out and then put straight tap water back in. I didn't even bother pH-ing it until I saw roots, and the roots that formed were incredible.
They were bushy and came from all over the exposed stem rather than just a few spots.

I tried to make the EZ-Cloner hard and all I had to do was K.I.S.S., No hormones, no dip in rooting gel, just snip off you clones and cut a 45°. Run it 24/7 except when you are doing water changes.

Make an educated decision, but if it were me I would first address the temperature issue. Lower your ambient temperatures or maintain it with ice.

Second, start putting fresh water in there. If there is any funk the chlorine will take care of it. Then, change half of your water the next day and then the next. Now give it two days between changes.

Third, take a few cuts "the old fashioned way" whatever that is for you to preserve your genetics just in case.

I had 80 or so clones all snotted up and there was foam in the res. I was about to pull them all and start over, but the mothers would not be ready for a trimming like that for a while. I was a little inspired by Krunch's success battling slime where he was adding bleach. I was not going to add bleach, but I thought I would try some water that might be a little "hot". I changed 2-3 buckets of water out every day and by the third day there was no foam, no smell, and the last of the snot was gone. The fourth day the circumference of the cut started to bulge and on day five I had roots. These clones had been in there about ten days before I started the tap water treatment, so at day 15 they showed up. It was like they were wanting to pop but the nasties kept them back. After a couple of days some were exploding like pom poms.

When I slack on water changes, things slow down. It seems to need at least two buckets changed, every other day.

That little valve makes all the difference in the world. It makes it so simple you don't mind to do it, vs. dipping the water out.

To make re-fill easy, pick up a faucet-garden hose adapter over in plumbing.

Attach a hose to you bathroom faucet and put the other end through one of the holes in the top. Your res change just got easier. I do it that way so I never have to move the top.

Happy rooting

 

[F. Dupp]

F.Dupp I,ve always used RO water with Hygrozyme and still got slimed.I wasn,t aware that it helped with high temps either....I used to love it until I lost a big garden b,cause of the brown alagae...but I know lots of ppl. who swear by it.
I grow in soil a lot now and have been tempted to try the Hygrozyme again..I think I would probably do alright with it....or I may just try it on some of the potted plants.....
jarff

Fucking Hygrozyme. The guy at the hydro shop swore that its the greatest product on the market. Usually I research everything for days before I use it. But that fuckin guy blabbed for half an hour about how thats all I would ever need. At least I know to never listen to him again.

 

[F. Dupp]

Oh buddy, you are about to have problems.

I have a 120 also:



I have killed many rounds of clones too. I know what works for me, so listen up and ask questions.

Hygrozyme is a no no, forget it, get it out of there. THIS HAS CAUSED ME SLIME. With the best intentions I put it in there and I am certain it was the source of my slime issue in a DIY and ®.

81° is too warm, but lower the temperature, don't buffer it with additives.

Putting RO water in an EZ-Cloner is a waste. I did, then I did filtered water and now I run STRAIGHT TAP, with chlorine and everything.

In fact, I bill the straight tap water as a cornerstone of my success. That and one simple mod:

This is under five dollars at Lowes and makes res changes a snap.

It's a shut-off for a hose.



I tell you I tried it all. Hygrozyme, ice bottles, hormones, EWC tea (this did show some promise) but what dialed it in for me was frequent water changes.
At least every two days I would drain about half of the water out and then put straight tap water back in. I didn't even bother pH-ing it until I saw roots, and the roots that formed were incredible.
They were bushy and came from all over the exposed stem rather than just a few spots.

I tried to make the EZ-Cloner hard and all I had to do was K.I.S.S., No hormones, no dip in rooting gel, just snip off you clones and cut a 45°. Run it 24/7 except when you are doing water changes.

Make an educated decision, but if it were me I would first address the temperature issue. Lower your ambient temperatures or maintain it with ice.

Second, start putting fresh water in there. If there is any funk the chlorine will take care of it. Then, change half of your water the next day and then the next. Now give it two days between changes.

Third, take a few cuts "the old fashioned way" whatever that is for you to preserve your genetics just in case.

I had 80 or so clones all snotted up and there was foam in the res. I was about to pull them all and start over, but the mothers would not be ready for a trimming like that for a while. I was a little inspired by Krunch's success battling slime where he was adding bleach. I was not going to add bleach, but I thought I would try some water that might be a little "hot". I changed 2-3 buckets of water out every day and by the third day there was no foam, no smell, and the last of the snot was gone. The fourth day the circumference of the cut started to bulge and on day five I had roots. These clones had been in there about ten days before I started the tap water treatment, so at day 15 they showed up. It was like they were wanting to pop but the nasties kept them back. After a couple of days some were exploding like pom poms.

When I slack on water changes, things slow down. It seems to need at least two buckets changed, every other day.

That little valve makes all the difference in the world. It makes it so simple you don't mind to do it, vs. dipping the water out.

To make re-fill easy, pick up a faucet-garden hose adapter over in plumbing.

Attach a hose to you bathroom faucet and put the other end through one of the holes in the top. Your res change just got easier. I do it that way so I never have to move the top.

Happy rooting

Thanks Cutty. I appreciate the detailed info. I will drain the rez completely tomorrow morning and add tap water. I will turn down the lights in that room and add ice. Are you sure about the chlorine? I used to use DIY cloners, and the only time I used city tap water all my clones turned yellow and died a week later.


By the way, I wont lose the genetics. I do have 90 plants that went from the cloner into veg last wednesday.

 

[ThePizzaMan]

You can run 80-81, you just need Aquashield. Even though I use the AS, I do like to keep temps 76-78 which is pretty hard right now in August.

I also use Clonex hormone solution, you can buy it by the quart for like $25.00 shipped. You should use it. I didn't use it this run, and things are slooooow.

Clones and Aquashield(EWC) are all you will ever need for the aero-cloner. With that being said, I am still going to try rapid rooters(JJSCORPIO) style. It seems much simpler and less work.

Cloning is an art, and takes time to master.

Good luck.

 

[indoor/outdoor]

let me chime in friend!first off when your water temp rises your ph will rise . sounds like you need a small ac for your room. also only use 1/4 strength flora series three part nutes in your cloner according to the general hydroponics chart for cuttings or seeds.think about it your gonna feed it that later anyways right! it just needs 2 stay alive till it gets roots!

 

[Cutty]

How is your local water? pH, ppm?

Mine is pretty good, 120 and 7.4 and up.

If you are concerned just mix 50/50 with RO. I honestly believe that the mild amount of chlorine killed the slime and protected future clones.
It will all naturally evolve out of solution , especially with the aero-action, so it is not there long. That is one reason I hit it up with a quick res change the next day.

I used to read some threads where old timers would say all you needed was tap water. Shit, what did they know.

I was taking my cuts (long) and putting them in a cup of pH-ed , Superthrived water until I got a bunch of them, then I would do a perfect 45° and then into the clonex for at least 45 seconds each.
I would do different things to my reservoir, pH it.

I had mostly failure, some would root, but I might get 20 out of a close to full run. Sometimes I got none. I told myself I was going back to rapid rooters. Then I just happened to try straight tap water changes close to the end of another failed run and damn near everyone came back and rooted just like in the above picture.

 

[indoor/outdoor]

you can also use just plain water ,tap or ro and you will still get roots.nutes in cloner=funked up water.chem nutes stay nice,they dont degrade as quickly as say organic base.plain water= clean pump and rez . also ever think that what your adding 2 your water might clog your pump up and cause it to run hott!!!!clean it and try it with just water and i clog my cloner up all time,silly me.I use a rainforest 36,during summer it really doesnt work well with no climate control=a/c

 

[Cutty]

also only use 1/4 strength flora series three part nutes in your cloner according to the general hydroponics chart for cuttings or seeds.think about it your gonna feed it that later anyways right! it just needs 2 stay alive till it gets roots!

Good point.

I feed The Recipe and I will throw some micro in there when roots show...that's why the roots in the picture aren't so bright white!

 

[F. Dupp]

I cant see your pictures Cutty. Just the hose adapter and shut off. I wanna see em, but its just a little box with a red X in it.

I cant say that I have the slime as of yet. The only indication of a problem was the PH jump. Everything looks/smells wonderful. I might be jumping the gun a bit, but I cannot accept a failed batch of clones at this point. I just got everything up and running in my new laboratory. I spent a fucking fortune on this.

Is a PH jump the first sign of slime? I have yet to see my PH rise just because of warm temps.

I only added 1/8 of the recommended amount of Hygrozyme. Is that enough to get slimed?

 

[F. Dupp]

My local water is around 200 ppm, and 7.1 PH I think. I tested it once before I got the RO system hooked up. I never actually used the tap water there for anything. I dont do this at my house (I have kids) so I will check it tomorrow when I get there.