thoughts, humic vs. fulvic ???

[habeeb]

hello guys,

wanted your opinions on humic vs. fulvic, as in which one is better if you were to use one?

I am thinking about dropping humic:

-messy powder ( specially if comes into contact with water )
-pH specific range ( which I do not even know what pH it's absorbed )
-is using 2 humic acid productseven good to do ( humic and fulvic )

want to hear some thoughts, facts, opinions on humic vs. fulvic.

 

[AOD2012]

i would also like to hear this, as i have both, and have read that fulvic is better, also that it is able to be absorbed at better ph levels. hopefully some knowledgeable people can add in.

 

[jdkronyk101]

humic has both in it. and there are liquid humates available. humic acid works best in the rootzone. and fulvic acid is most efficiently used in foliar applications to speed up metabolism and increase growth. both are good but humic is cheaper and is both in one. fulvic is refined from humic sources.
hope that helps

 

[ngen]

Yeah all fulvic acid is humic acid, just a more refined particle. ''Better' depends on what you are trying to achieve, i don't consider these two to be versus but partners in decomposition.

JD is right, humic is too large for stoma too uptake and accordingly should be watered into the soil. Fulvic is small enough to be taken up by stoma and is used most efficiently as a foliar (i would imagine has more foliar feeding gets used by plants than soil feed)

if i could buy fulvic acids independently for mixing up foliar feeds i would, but i don't so i feed with my 57% humic 10% fulvic anyways.... at the dilution rates for foliar app i don't really consider it a waste.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

They are both chelating agents. I prefer to let the microbeasties do the work of humic and fulvic acid. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that both compounds naturally occur in my soil mix.

Adding them to plants as a liquid seems like force feeding to me.

 

[jaykush]

adding organic matter and letting it decompose into humus will give you all the humics and fulvics you need.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

hello guys,

wanted your opinions on humic vs. fulvic, as in which one is better if you were to use one?

I am thinking about dropping humic:

-messy powder ( specially if comes into contact with water )
-pH specific range ( which I do not even know what pH it's absorbed )
-is using 2 humic acid productseven good to do ( humic and fulvic )

want to hear some thoughts, facts, opinions on humic vs. fulvic.

habeeb

Here's my limited knowledge about humic and fulvic acids and the role they play in moving minerals (primarily) into the the roots of a plant.

Humic acids carry a '-' charge meaning that agents like SOM (Soil Organic Material) and clay carry this negative charge. Fair enough.

In the lexicon of cannabis growing the ONLY 'nutrients' generally considered is the N-P-K paradigm. Again, fair enough.

In the world of soil microbiology the emphasis is on the primary alkaline base cations, i.e. Calcium (Ca++), Magnesium (Mg++), Potassium (K+) and Sodium (Ni+) and the base acid cations Hydrogen (H+) and Aluminum (Al++++). Notice the additional '+' designations as these indicate 'extra cations' that come into play in the CeC (Cation Exchange Capacity) measurement of a soil's viability.

Everything in a soil has a cation or an anion (a negative charge) and the fact that calcium (Ca++) has an 'extra' charge allows it to exchange its cations for 2 each hydrogen cations (H+) - hydrogen pushes a soil's pH to a acid reading. Calcium, by being able to adsorb the hydrogen cation (2 to 1) allows the freed Calcium cation to be taken up by the cation exchange of the root's exude, i.e. a Hydrogen (+) cation resulting an adjustment in the soil's pH reading.

Fulvic acid, while a component in real PHA (pure humic acid), has a far smaller chemical structure - small enough for this agent to be taken up by the plant's roots and it enters the plant's circulatory system. Once it's inside the plant it has a number of jobs to accomplish not the least of which is to trigger specific plant defense mechanisms as well as moving mineral agents attached (again through the CeC (cation exchange capacity).

While it's true that the 'main process' of a plant to uptake minerals (in general) is through the soil's fungi and specifically the mycorrhizae colonies, it's also true that fulvic acid can 'mainline' some mineral agents directly into the plant.

If one considers a plant's mycorrhizal colonies as part of a plant's footprint, plants are the largest body in the biology world. Some plants can create 30-40 acres of mycorrhizae fungi and some forms of ectomycorrhizal colonies can reach 20 - 30 miles in growth. Ancient forests for example.

So my read and understanding is that you want to source real, legitimate pure humic acid with a high-fulvic acid profile as both acids are an important component of organic/biodynamic agriculture processes.

YMMV

CC

 

[habeeb]

^ thank you for this post CC


and yes, jay, I have heard that also mentioned.


I think I will drop both until I see a need / want to use them, as simpler is better we say? my plan is to use bottles ( simplicity, ease ) and use the fewest additives possible, and call it a day..

 

[CT Guy]

I know I'm biased, but I really like this product:

http://simplici-tea.com/images/LC-10Plus7Label.pdf

I think there are definite advantages when using humic acids to a product that is already chelated with the essential minerals and in the proper amounts to maximize plant growth.

http://simplici-tea.com/humic_acid.htm

 

[jaykush]

i don't use bottles, but tested that stuff^^^ and it works great. and on not so great soil it works even better.

 

[schwagg]

what about using lignite in the soil? the bag i have says 75% humic acid, improves CEC, nutrient holding.

 

[Yankee Grower]

what about using lignite in the soil?

Ha ha...dude...I kind of answered your question in another thread. Do you have more specific questions? CC knows his humic/fulvic acids but maybe I can fill in a hole or 2.

 

[Yankee Grower]

and on not so great soil it works even better.

Yeah when you are starting with a well rounded soil program those 'magic bullet' products don't work as well.

 

[schwagg]

yeah yankee, i was a little confused with my minerials. still, i have a bag of the lignite sittin' on the shelf and wondering the best way to use it. i have a pretty decent soil already, would adding some hurt? everybody talks about the humic/fulvic so that's why i picked up the lignite when i finally saw it. it's the source of both correct? it's basically ancient compost isn't it?

 

[jaykush]

you could always use it in some ACT. that's where i use the powdered humic im testing.

 

[Yankee Grower]

yeah yankee, i was a little confused with my minerials. still, i have a bag of the lignite sittin' on the shelf and wondering the best way to use it. i have a pretty decent soil already, would adding some hurt? everybody talks about the humic/fulvic so that's why i picked up the lignite when i finally saw it. it's the source of both correct? it's basically ancient compost isn't it?

Adding some would not hurt it's just a matter of the amount of benefit achieved which I don't think would be too much. Maybe if you had an acre of farm it would probably help. Creating great soil for a small grow isn't hard but trying to amend an acre properly is more difficult. Yes basically the source of humic/fulvic but different deposits have different characteristics like is the deposit from salt or fresh water grasses/trees. Sure a way to look at it is ancient compost...basically organic matter that's been fully worked by microbes. I wouldn't look at it as a mineral source though even though it does contain minerals...if that makes sense.

One of the great things about lignite, and not humic/fulvic extracts, is it still contains the humin fraction which is valuable for building soils so if you have a lot of crappy soil a great place to start.

 

[schwagg]

thank you YG

i'm gonna try a little in my next tea JK. thanks