Chanting Growers Group

[Weird]

I have personally been very cautious to even say when I identify with some of the referenced texts

I was draw here by the energy and its flow. I feel as if I am drawn to seek a unfolding truth and much of what I see and read here calls to me

As much of it as I feel I "get", the part of the truth that I have been able to grasp is that not only was i born believing the world revolved around me (american ego?) but i believed so did knowledge and reality.

Its only now, so far along the path of life already, that I realized intellectually and spiritually it is if as I was a turtle and have finally stuck my head out of my shell

the world that I once believe I knew and understood as being whole, was only MY world, and in it I was held to the limits of my own being.

As I feel I understand others, and other perspectives I started to see the world in a different dimension, as if my spiritual understanding went from 2-D to 3-D.

There were great efforts of love, payments in suffering and days months and years that have passed as this happened, as I said it seems to me as if truth unfolds itself as I apply the right energies and the right state of mind, but if I believed I was complete before I knew what a world outside myself was, how can I be sure I UNDERSTAND the truth that has been unfolded opposed to the state of learning I am undergoing as it continues to unfold.

the less I know the more that is revealed, the more I give the more that is given, and when I try to understand the state I am in and knowingly manipulate the energies I take away form the practice of applying those energies

I feel that sharing in a way that says i read this and it inspired me in this manner would allow for our personal identification of the process and where we see that sentiment reflected

I think that if my understanding is correct, truth is one entity that extends past our personal experiences and lifetimes. The ultimate truth cannot not be rightly defined by any one man and that any one man that is so enlightened would not want to misrepresent the truth by saying it could be

i believe that if we misrepresent the truth, even with the best intentions, we misguide ourselves, others and our collective energies involved.

please correct me if there is any slight upon the truth as it interpret it and try to reflect it in the statements above.

so much of this thread enriches me thank you for sharing one and all

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

 

[Weird]

it seems to be a difficult line to manage, the one where we decide to "shine the light for those who we may share the path of enlightenment with" or showing your light to say "your on the enlightened path"

is it our instinct for the later, and the wisdom born of gratitude and humility for the former? Regardless it seems to be something we all must learn to practice. The battle to focus the love outward to each other opposed to inwards towards ourselves.

I struggle with it daily but I am grateful i see the phenomenon and can choose to change, in the hope of this journey I find strength.

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

 

[pb4ugo]

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[pb4ugo]

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[EasyMyohoDisco]

Hey PB,

I agree with Thomas because this thread is more about the Correct and True Practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism and also adheres to a very strict no slander policy. I personally keep myself to this standard constantly and have turned down leadership positions higher than the Chapter level because I refuse to acquiesce to the opinions or the interpretations provided by others outside the Realm of Nichiren Daishonin's intent. Clearly we can debate, study, quote, and recite anything we wish to share in a respectful and tolerant way, but there is a line in a sand that Nichiren Daishonin left behind and in my opinion anything within the realm of Buddhism (which is everything) must be compared against the Daishonin's will and intent.

This is why I'm going to have special Gosho study meetings because people need to develop a stronger connection to the Daishonin than to the proponents of the Daishonin. It leads back to your recent post where you indicate that Nichiren Daishonin directs us to (I'm paraphrasing) "follow the law and not the teachers or people who transmit the law". I understand this duality as a mechanism that protects the foundation of our practice and allows Nichiren Daishonin's teachings to continue to be transmitted in an unadulterated manner. I'm such a big fan of Nichiren that I still desire to see the Dai-Gohonzon, but I know that the correct practice of Nichiren Daishonin does not mandate that I congregate with evils priests that have fleas! I would never want to bring back fleas into my home and practice, yet sometimes even members of our organization go off on a tangent and begin to teach their own doctrine that appears as a variation of the main practice of kosen-rufu/shakubuku.

Staying on Topic, Thomas directed the opinions are like asshole posts to me and taught me what really was going on with VegasBuddha would come in here and attempt to manipulate people like me who sincerely seek to live a life appreciating Nichiren Daishonin. In fact, I thought PB was another manifestation of VegasBuddha and I was quickly proven otherwise. PB your intention and desire to share Buddhism on this thread is awesome and I hope it continues.

I personally don't like certain things certain people say and very often I get some shitty guidance like connect with the Prez, etc. Through the education I've recieved one this thread I can look past that inferior bullcrap and realize my true mission as a Thus Come One of Original Enlightment Eternally Endowed with the Three Bodies who is also a Bodhisattva and that is my true identity which nobody can deny! When I chant I'm the Buddha and I make the benefits, when I shakubuku I'm the mentor and I establish the peace in the land, when I fight for what I believe in I'm the same mind as Nichiren Daishonin.

I really don't give a flying fuck about any dogma in our organization and sometimes the crap I hear about a certain leader makes me twitch and gets my ears fuming red, through this thread and our discussions I have enough rocket fuel to leave the hell of incessant suffering and prepare for take off to eagle peak! This thread is an oasis in a green forum that resides in the Land of Eternally Tranquil Light. I like this little niche Thomas and Bud forged for me, thats why I always chant for them and Tony Matsuoka and Ted Osaki. I have found that the teachers who taught my Teacher(s) are of the same mind as me and that alone has helped me walk the bad ass path of being the rebel, the Bodhisattva, the ShakubukuArtist and the aspiring champion for Kosen-rufu!

Great words and lets keep the communication flowing! I got really pumped when I saw sceggy post and knowing that he's also graduating is most excellent. Scegy, don't worry most of my friends here throughout the USA have no jobs... nobody is hiring and what a great oppurtunity many of us have to keep chanting and make sure we get in as much diamoku as possible before the world economy picks up. When the jobs come back chanting time will be limited....

Love,
MyohoDisco

 

[pb4ugo]

Weird wrote:

>> i believe that if we misrepresent the truth, even with the best intentions, we misguide ourselves, others and our collective energies involved.

please correct me if there is any slight upon the truth as it interpret it and try to reflect it in the statements above.<<

so much of this thread enriches me thank you for sharing one and all

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
__________________
galatians 6:7 <<


In my "opinion" Nichiren defines the truth as Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and that is the enlightened life of the eternal Buddha. We all were able to attain the same enlightenment through this Law then in the remotest distance past and so we therefore are now able to attain the same enlightenment in our present form. Any interpretations that we feel about the above statement, if it is driven from our diligent efforts to substantiate this truth through our experience whether it is correct or incorrect for that moment, is in a state of flux, which means that it is bound to change through the progression of realization of oneself constant efforts or by others who have gone through this process of understanding the Law.
Nichiren stated in his writings referring from the Lotus Sutra that the LS - hence the Law of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is the "most difficult to believe and the most difficult to understand! So how can we expect that anyone can express or understand this Law accurately right from the beginning or even after 10 or 20 or 30 years of practice.
However, as long as we base our actions and understanding on chanting wholeheartedly to the Gohonzon, all of our understanding or misconception about the Law related to us and our environment, would be prove correct in a gradual progression manner, rather than in an instant sudden capturing moment sometime in the future as a "light bulb".

 

[pb4ugo]

Easy wrote:

>>> I agree with Thomas because this thread is more about the Correct and True Practice of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism and also adheres to a very strict no slander policy. I personally keep myself to this standard constantly and have turned down leadership positions higher than the Chapter level because I refuse to acquiesce to the opinions or the interpretations provided by others outside the Realm of Nichiren Daishonin's intent. Clearly we can debate, study, quote, and recite anything we wish to share in a respectful and tolerant way, but there is a line in a sand that Nichiren Daishonin left behind and in my opinion anything within the realm of Buddhism (which is everything) must be compared against the Daishonin's will and intent.<<<



I am also in agreement with your statement above, One has to distinguish between statements that do damage and portray incorrectness in the light of the sources T had mentioned. However, it is important to perpetuate the freedom to discuss any matter regarding faith and help one another through our understanding to include the rational and quotations from other sources to substantiate our expression.

I do not think that my posts and understanding pose a detrimental deviation from what I believe to be the spirit behind what Nichiren tries to convey and even this can be rebutted or questioned with disagreement.

The point I am trying to make also that Dogma has no place in Nichiren Buddhism rather it is REASON through faith.

This it is my opinion so not to walk on eggs over here.

 

[Weird]

i would like to share a view that may bring some comfort to all.

I think it is fair to say that we are awakened to our faith like children to their bodies.

seemingly awkward at first, the clumsy learnings of our own bodies that are a necessary part of learning to master utilization of the human body, such is the process of learning our spirituality, and no matter how awkward our spirituality at first, rejoice for what form does not signify purity of love for one another than the joy of the human child.

we need to find the part of all our energies that fits in unity, the congruences of our spirits regardless for in my heart I feel this potential does exists and this is what draws me here. Not the differences in our faces but the unity of our voices.


it has become of my opinion as I write this that and I share it simply as:

we can find unity on those who travel along side with us on the same path

or unity with those who are even on it

or the unity with those that even choose to travel it

we can find unity in those who seeking it

or we can choose to find unity simply because WE ARE and let the path have a part in the choosing too

the less we put in between each other when choosing to carry the same voice the greater the power of us all regardless


I am new to this part of my being and being in touch with my spirituality and i feel i very much fit the spirituality awkward stage

but i know if i dont walk the path i wont travel along TYVM I share once again because you have made me feel encouraged (and walk the path)

to know there is an open ear for me to share my interpretation of the basic tenants of love (the being I evolves into being)

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

 

[Babbabud]

Thanks so much for sharing everyone !!
Nam myoho renge kyo !!

 

[pb4ugo]

Weird,
Thank you for your thoughtful words.

I actually don't find you Weird.

 

[SoCal Hippy]

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Sceggers! great to see you chiming in here dude. Been way too long.

 

[pb4ugo]

Testing my signature!

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Testing my signature!

Thank you for your respectful compliance with my simple request! PB, I hope you will, in time, find my request less constraining or irritating than you seem to right now. I have no idea why that would be such a big deal to you, but I will chant to be more understanding.

I have much more to say on this but I'm on the hook for an outing with all of the kids today, and I'm not sure how much I'll be able to express until later. Certainly, I hope this dialog will continue!

One thing for my part that I want to address right now, is that when people start expressing themselves based on their understanding, I think the admonition from Chang-an that the Daishonin repeats quite often is important to keep in mind: “One who destroys or brings confusion to the Buddha’s teachings is betraying them. If one befriends another person but lacks the mercy to correct him, one is in fact his enemy."

If what PB has been proposing is truly dialog then that includes a continuing communication with an ultimate goal of achieving clarity and understanding. This means when someone comments on an aspect of what someone else has said, the person being addressed owes it to the others that have listened to what they shared, to at least respond to their comments. My experience in the past, when we have tried this here, is that often someone says something, another questions the point of reference or perspective, and the person making the original statement just shines those comments on and keeps talking without addressing them or making anything clearer.

In my opinion, that is just a bunch of bullshit, and I hope it doesn't happen again. When anyone asks "What are you talking about?" or "Where did you get that understanding?", if the person being addressed isn't up to taking responsibility for what they have said, and provide substantiation for why they said it, we are not involved in dialog.

Why does Daisaku Ikeda utilize a round-table forum for conveying his understandings in the reference materials "The World of Nichiren Daishonin's Writings" and "The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra? My sense is that he does so for the purpose of separating his personal views from established perspectives and views (which I guess we are now referring to in the somewhat pejorative of calling it "Dogma").

I never see him hesitate to be clear to qualify a point as being his opinion. I have never found it to be difficult to do myself either. I hope no one else will as time goes on.

Much love and deepest respect,

Thomas

 

[Forest20]

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo! ...OK i was just reading the thread from the beginning sorry if i confused anyone.... a lot have come and gone, but the truth remains the same...

 

[PassTheDoobie]

I have personally been very cautious to even say when I identify with some of the referenced texts

I was draw here by the energy and its flow. I feel as if I am drawn to seek a unfolding truth and much of what I see and read here calls to me


Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

Dude, throw caution to the wind! You're doing great and the opinions you are expressing are most appreciated. Please continue!

Much love and deepest respect,

T

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo! ...OK i was just reading the thread from the beginning sorry if i confused anyone.... a lot have come and gone, but the truth remains the same...

Forest! You have nothing to apologize for! As a matter of fact, I felt like your post was straight from the Gohonzon for my purposes.



I believe a new era of dialog is about to open up here and I will always give you credit for helping estabish what was necessary for that to be so. Even if that was not your intention, well done!

Much love and deepest respect,

T

 

[PassTheDoobie]

I wrote ...yeah believe it or not I wrote to President Ikeda and he replied to me that the best way to learn is to grasp one word at a time and maybe other related dis, dat, and de utter tings(I threw that in-LOL)......look Pass I respect your sincererity, but let's go to layman's terms cause you'll catch a bigger audience that way.....BUT I think ya have a homeboy who is your translator...but not sure--

Dude! You have me on the edge of my seat. Though the size of the audience is of no consequence to me, could you explain what you mean by "laymans terms?" I don't solicit the thread's readership; I have only invited maybe a handful of people via PM in the entire year and a half it's been going. I actually do this for certain people; because I know they are always reading what gets posted and I know they sincerely appreciate the effort that I make to share with them--and if they ever go, so will I.

But you completely lost me on the "BUT I think ya have a homeboy who is your translator...but not sure-- " thing. What the heck are you talking about Brother? If you respect my sincerity, then understand that I have a smile on my face when I ask that. As much time as I put into this thing, I would love to have someone tell me how to make it better without turning it into some sort of SGI discussion meeting--because it isn't.

There is no emotion that can be conveyed consistently and accurately. I have come to the conclusion that the safest thing that can be done is to do my best to help make available to others the direct teachings of the Daishonin. If learning about Buddhism, it’s history, the players, the terms and definitions, and so forth, doesn’t generate dialoge among the readers, I really don’t care. Anyone that wants to ask a question may do so.

I have no recollection of anywhere a question asked respectfully was not answered respectfully. The translations I use and source material are all from the SGI, so whom might my homeboy be? I gotta tell ya, the “laymans terms” and “homeboy…translator” has me grinning, shaking my head, and wondering.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks!

T

Pass the Doobie I meant no disrespect when I posted. You are a most invaluable and probably the one of the most important members to post on this thread that I've had the pleasure reading(did that sound right??).

What I meant was that explaining philosophical and/or opinions and concepts is great in the way you do it but I truly believe that most stoners or non stoners would tune out after a couple of pages......if the content was reduced to emphasize the point more clearly and concisely, the reaction would probably be....oh...heh, heh....yeah dude....I know what you're sayin now.....personally, I find what you've put on these pages fascinating and I've turned many times to this instead of other writings such as "The True Object of Worship" which I KNOW that YOU know.

As far as the translator remark I believe there was someone else and I apologize for not remembering his name--"vegas buddha" I believe and one other dude who was very dedicated to this thread. I've read perhaps the first 100 or so pages of this thread and I am probably missing a few other's that deserve attention so I apologize. These people approached explaining the philosophy of NSA in a "lite beer" or "Sensi Hindu Kush"approach...nothing overpowering or difficult or confusing and once again, this is NOT meant to reflect anything disrespectful because I have nothing but the utmost respect for you Pass the Doobie......thanks and may kosen-rufu become a reality in our lifetime.

So start doing your thing! I bow in obeisance to VegasBuddha, Avid Learner, and Southern Girl--all of whom no longer post here because of me. Without them this thread would not be this thread! Whether they will ever believe it or not, I sincerely chant for their happiness consistently every day. They never leave my prayers.

But here is the problem, I started the thread and feel a personal responsibility for it's content. If people want to express the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin in a "lite beer" or "Sensi Hindu Kush" approach, they have to do so responsibly. They can't make off-the-cuff comments that are in conflict with these teachings.

I never say a word about things that are reflected accurately, yet if you'll check ALL of these pages, I am aware of only ONE time that the person that expressed something that I felt was not in keeping with a correct understanding, responded to clarify my view as a misperception. The one time that such a response did happen, I qualified that the response only served to make my point, and poof, that person was gone.

If I’m too harsh I apologize. It serves no purpose for me to intimidate anyone. I always research my facts before I respond, or state myself as being of a certain “opinion based on experience.”

If everyone else would do the same, I would never have to be the ass-wipe I come off as being sometimes. That has been the most disappointing part of doing this from the beginning. If what one says is mistaken, and I know it is mistaken, the Daishonin’s teachings say I must confront the mistaken view. IT”S NEVER PERSONAL!!!

I’ve tried to make dialogue easier, but in an internet environment, that has been almost impossible. So help us giantman! I am going on vacation in two days. Please help me start getting people talking! I have to be careful how anecdotal I am to keep my security situation from being at risk.

I VERY MUCH RESPECT AND APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE!!!

T

I won't "start doin my THANG" dude because I won't allow people to think that I have the answers, which is why you had some probs at the beginning, but because I really believe that you know a lot of the avenues to the answers people seek, I think you are the very core of this thread....I'm sorry to hear that the people mentioned are no longer posting because they were good people.

Not more sorry than me dude, believe that. You have no idea how much anguish that fact has visited upon me. Partner, I am being absolutely sincere when I say "do your thing." Your Thang is my Thang. I welcome your help and input. PLEASE join the conversation.

I have never wanted to make people think I have all of the answers, because the process of seeking anuttara-samyak-sambodhi is an evolution in my opinion, based on experience. Like I said and say again, if I am mistaken, PLEASE correct such a mistaken view on my part. Frankly, it is one's responsibilty to do so.

However if something occurs like someone wanting to qualify an opinion of the meanings of the the characters on the Gohonzon, that is not in keeping with the Daishonin's own explaination, I'm going to say something about it. If someone posts the teachings of the Daishonin, I ask that they please proof read it and correct any errors. If someone professes to practice the Daishonin's Buddhism types Nam-myoho-renge-kyo in a post, I would ask that they please spell it correctly.

I consider such issues respect for the teachings. I apply them only to people who profess a relationship with the Gohonzon. I assume you are one of those people based on your letter to President Ikeda. I would assume you understand that this is not a difficult request. Some people respond to things and view them differently than others. I have never asked anything of anyone that I felt was beyond their capacity to understand. Nor will I.

I would hope that this understanding leads NO ONE to believe that I think that I have all the answers. Some answers are as simple to find as just reading the Daishonin's teachings and understanding the content in light of their historical and religeous context; and the definition of concepts and fundamental truths that they reveal.

But all I really want is for people to develop a relationship with the Entity of the Law, receive their Gohonzon, and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo for the rest of their lives.

Then everything else will work for them, no matter how they might view me.

Welcome aboard GM!

Thomas

An exchange from January 2006. What we are discussing now is nothing new. But I hope the outcome is! Sorry for being a pain in the ass everyone. I sincerely appreciate each and everyone of you!

Bowing in humble obeisance,

Thomas

 

[Forest20]

Forest! You have nothing to apologize for! As a matter of fact, I felt like your post was straight from the Gohonzon for my purposes.



I believe a new era of dialog is about to open up here and I will always give you credit for helping estabish what was necessary for that to be so. Even if that was not your intention, well done!

Much love and deepest respect,

T

I believe a new era of dialog is about to open up here......I to have a strong feeling too....

 

[pb4ugo]

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[unclefishstick]

if I may share some of my personal connection to Buddhism...
in the early 90's i lived in Boulder colorado,at the time there was a monk who had made it his mission to expel the demon who lived at rocky flats,so you would see him all over the area with his drum and the warmest,most beautiful smile i have ever seen.the sound of his drum was such a common feature of day to day life,that it would become like a heartbeat,something that you dont always note consciously,but is always there...
one day i was bouldering,a type of rock climbing on smaller rocks and outcrops that doesn't use any ropes or other safety equipment,and although the height of the rocks is generally under 20 feet,when you fall,you hit the ground,so the consequences can be serious.
on this occasion,i had gotten on a route just at the edge of my abilities,i was climbing alone that day,and no one was nearby.so i find myself about 15 or so feet off the ground,past the point i can safely jump off,as the landing area below me was littered with suitcase sized rocks,lets just say a broken leg at least if i had fallen in that spot,the moves were too difficult for me to reverse...i'm stuck...i cant find the next handhold that will allow me to make the next few moves to the top,i spend what seemed like an eternity searching for the next hold,i'm loosing strength fast,my calves are cramping from standing on tiny tiny footholds,and now i'm getting scared...
at that moment,the wind shifted,or some trick of the mountain terrain bought the sound of the monks drum clear as a bell,as though he were standing right next to me,and the next thing i knew,i was shakily climbing down the back side of the rock,with no clear idea of what i had done to get myself to the top aside from feeling like i was floating.

when i read about the meaning of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo that was how it unfolded in my head,that pure perfect moment in climbing where mind and body unite,and the moves flow so smoothly together that it becomes effortless...

i hope that makes even the slightest bit of sense to anyone! an imperfect explanation to go with my imperfect understanding LOL thanks everyone for contributing!