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Legalize It! Opposing sides gear up for a fight.

Rainman

The revolution will not be televised.....
Veteran
Legalize it?

Many in Sacramento’s cannabis community oppose Proposition 19

By Nick Miller
[email protected]
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Read 2 reader submitted comments



This article was published on 08.05.10.

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Sacramento Center for Patients’ Rights director Lynette Davies (right) and daughter Rebecca pass out anti-Proposition 19 brochures at the California State Fair. She argues that the ballot measure will be bad for medical-cannabis patients. PHOTO BY LARRY DALTON


This November, Proposition 19 will give voters the chance to make California the nation’s first state to decriminalize recreational marijuana for adults. But while legalization is long-sought-after goal for Sacramento’s cannabis stakeholders, many are conflicted by—and even against—the ballot measure.
“You would think out of all people that we would be very supportive of it,” says Lynette Davies, director of local medical-cannabis advocacy group the Center for Patients’ Rights. “[But] I strongly do not support it.” And she says she’s spending “thousands” of dollars to defeat the measure.
Davies, who also co-owns local Canna Care dispensary with her husband, Brian, spent the past few weeks distributing anti-Prop. 19 brochures at the California State Fair. She says her motivation defies good economic sense. “We could literally overnight increase our business fivefold [if Prop. 19 passes],” Davies admits. “But it is not in the best interests of the patients.”
If approved, Prop. 19—also called the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010—would legalize the possession and personal consumption of up to 1 ounce of marijuana for any person over age 21. It also would allow adults to grow up to 25 square feet of cannabis for personal use.
Additionally, the measure grants local governments, such as the city of Sacramento, two choices: to either tax and control recreational marijuana sales and cultivation, or to ban such practices altogether.
Critics argue that Prop. 19 would be a step backward for patients’ safe access to cannabis, especially in Placer or El Dorado counties, which already prohibit dispensaries in spite of 1996’s Proposition 215. The measure also enacts harsher penalties for adults that offer cannabis to minors—in some cases imprisonment up to seven years—and would increase penalties for marijuana users under 21 years old.
Davies’ Canna Care is the first local dispensary to aggressively dispute Prop. 19. But others share similar concerns.
MediCann, a medical-marijuana evaluation clinic with branches in Elk Grove, North Highlands and East Sacramento, also has come out against Prop. 19. The Sacramento Alliance of Collectives, a coalition of 15 Sacramento-area dispensaries, has taken a “neutral” stance, arguing that the law won’t impact medicinal cannabis. Americans for Safe Access has taken a “non-stance” on the measure, too, for similar reasons. And longstanding Sacramento cannabis activist Ryan Landers says he has yet to settle on yes or no.
Caleb Counts, who co-owns Fruitridge Health and Wellness Collective and is one of three founding members of the Sacramento Alliance, says that he personally is “focused on medical” but also “isn’t sure” how he’ll vote come November 2.
“There’s just a lot of uncertainty out there,” he says. “But pass or fail, a lot of change is going to continue to come to the industry.”
Prop. 19’s roots are in Oakland, where Richard Lee, who founded Oaksterdam University, and medical-cannabis provider S.K. Seymour LLC have given nearly $1.4 million to back the measure. Three pro-19 committees have registered with the secretary of state, and their coffers far outweigh those of the three no-on-19 efforts.
news-2.jpg
Caleb Counts, pictured inside his dispensary, Fruitridge Health & Wellness Collective, says he “isn’t sure” how he’ll vote on Proposition 19. As co-founder of the Sacramento Alliance of Collectives, he says the coalition has taken a “neutral” stance on the measure. PHOTO BY LILLY FUENTES-JOY


But what the anti-19 groups lack in funding, they make up with endorsement muscle. Both gubernatorial candidates Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown have came out against Prop. 19, as have Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer. Locally, Sacramento County District Attorney Jan Scully opposes Prop. 19, as does Assemblyman Roger Niello.
Veteran Democratic Party consultant Roger Salazar heads the “Public Safety First—No on 19” campaign. “Even if you’re for legalization,” he said, “this isn’t the right way to do it,” calling Prop. 19 a “poorly written” measure that places an “unreasonable” amount of liability on local governments.
Opponents say municipalities are ill-prepared to regulate intracounty transport of large quantities of cannabis or to ensure that cultivators and retailers pay taxes—issues further complicated by neighboring governments that will outlaw marijuana entirely. Salazar argues that this local approach will set off “randomness and uncertainty,” because substances such as alcohol and tobacco are regulated “top down” by state-level agencies.
“It’s not even done this way in Amsterdam,” he says of Prop. 19.
But the yes-on-19 camp is trying to take the argument to a higher level. “If you don’t support legalization, then what you support is incarceration, and that becomes problematic,” argues Max Del Real, local medical-cannabis lobbyist and adviser to the Tax Cannabis 2010 campaign. He acknowledges that Prop. 19 is “complex,” but that it also comes down to one simple question:
“Do I support taxing and regulating California’s No. 1 cash crop? End of statement. End of the gray area. It’s a yes-or-no vote.”
But Canna Care’s Davies says the measure makes too many concessions to law enforcement and ultimately will criminalize patients and minors. There’s a bill at the Capitol, Mark Leno’s Senate Bill 1449, which might amend misdemeanor possession to an infraction. But there’s still the possibility of harsher penalties, Davies reminds, and this has her wary.
In Sacramento, the medical-cannabiscommunity also is hesitant. Will Prop. 19 decrease patients’ safe access? Will it lead to unprecedented law-enforcement crackdowns due to increased use and abuse? Or will taxes on medical cannabis destroy the nonprofit business model in favor of for-profit, recreational-cannabis retail?
“I think the taxes will end up applying to medical [marijuana],” says Nathan Sands, communications director for the local Compassionate Coalition, which supports Prop. 19. New cannabis taxes would be unprecedented; some estimate an ounce of cannabis might be levied upward of 60 percent. But Sands says the doubts don’t outweigh the potential.
“The legal part of it might be negative for patients in some ways,” Sands explains, “but the overall tone of what it will accomplish, I think, is more important. And if it is defeated, it will be billed as a defeat for patients as well.”
Ryan Landers, a Sacramento activist since the Prop. 215 days, says the California cannabis industry could “win an election on a group effort that was better written” and that Prop. 19 “opens the door to huge abuse.”
“This is not legalization by any means,” he argues—though he remains undecided on the measure. “I’d rather have it written right and wait than to do it wrong first.”
Counts, who opened Fruitridge Wellness Collective in February 2009 and now serves nearly 5,000 patients, says that regardless of the outcome, it will be a long road.
“We’re 14 years into Prop. 215, and they still haven’t figured out medical [cannabis],” he reminds.
 
B

blancorasta

hey rainman, some good info

thanks,
peace

every political rat is against it? can't do anything but help in my opinion

your entitled to your opinion but what is it based on, did u live in cali, did u have a medi card. do you know what the weed and the police scene is like here?

the heart of mj legalization is freedom. bob marley said it, "herb.. herb is a plant" set the plant AND THE PEOPLE FREE not REGULATE CONTROL AND TAX. its like we live so deep in regulation control and taxation its like people dont even notice its injustice, its just normal.

i dont know if you read the aforementioned post but i quoted and commented on some good points

Legalize it?

Additionally, the measure grants local governments, such as the city of Sacramento, two choices: to either tax and control recreational marijuana sales and cultivation, or to ban such practices altogether.
Critics argue that Prop. 19 would be a step backward for patients’ safe access to cannabis, especially in Placer or El Dorado counties, which already prohibit dispensaries in spite of 1996’s Proposition 215. The measure also enacts harsher penalties for adults that offer cannabis to minors—in some cases imprisonment up to seven years—and would increase penalties for marijuana users under 21 years old..
allows for harsher laws and penalties in the areas that choose not to allow mj commerce. and requires harsher laws and penalties to those living in areas that do allow mj use, who dont follow the guidlines like not buying weed from the govt licensed facilities.


Prop. 19’s roots are in Oakland, where Richard Lee, who founded Oaksterdam University, and medical-cannabis provider S.K. Seymour LLC have given nearly $1.4 million to back the measure. .
i wonder why richard lee would give so much of his hard earned money? maybe because he already owns a few dispenseries, he got one of those $211,000 permit wharehouse grow ops in oakland, and he'll make up part of the oligopoly that we will be forced to purchase any weed; we dont produce (in a govt limited 5x5 space) ourselves, from at uber high prices for marginal qualty shit

Veteran Democratic Party consultant Roger Salazar heads the “Public Safety First—No on 19” campaign. “Even if you’re for legalization,” he said, “this isn’t the right way to do it,” calling Prop. 19 a “poorly written” measure that places an “unreasonable” amount of liability on local governments..
meaning inefficient and expensive aswell as not truly in the name of liberty

Opponents say municipalities are ill-prepared to regulate intracounty transport of large quantities of cannabis or to ensure that cultivators and retailers pay taxes—issues further complicated by neighboring governments that will outlaw marijuana entirely. Salazar argues that this local approach will set off “randomness and uncertainty,” because substances such as alcohol and tobacco are regulated “top down” by state-level agencies..

hella people are gonna get busted and harassed even when operating legally. esp. medi patients growing what their recommendation allows beyond the 5x5 space

But the yes-on-19 camp is trying to take the argument to a higher level. “If you don’t support legalization, then what you support incarceration .
WOW! that is bold and offensive to my intellect. thats the same as saying "if your opposed to the wars in afghanistan and iraq, then what are you a terrorist"

argues Max Del Real, local medical-cannabis lobbyist and adviser to the Tax Cannabis 2010 campaign. He acknowledges that Prop. 19 is “complex,” but that it also comes down to one simple question:
“Do I support taxing and regulating California’s No. 1 cash crop? End of statement. End of the gray area. It’s a yes-or-no vote.”.
so here it is, its not about giving us our rights back, its not about safe legal access. its not about removing smoking from the social taboo. and its definitly not about sensible policy, its about taxing the fuck out of us because we should just be happy to not be going to jail for a weed anymore... and thats the biggest problem and the most bullshit

But Canna Care’s Davies says the measure makes too many concessions to law enforcement and ultimately will criminalize patients and minors. .
anytime you allow interpritation of law official are going to use it against you

Ryan Landers, a Sacramento activist since the Prop. 215 days, says the California cannabis industry could “win an election on a group effort that was better written” and that Prop. 19 “opens the door to huge abuse.”
“This is not legalization by any means,” he argues—though he remains undecided on the measure. “I’d rather have it written right and wait than to do it wrong first.”.

i believe mj smokers make up the largest single demographic in the U.S. as we traverse all other demographics.

i believe if we all came together in a place or on an issue we could change the world

maybe something to think about,

peace
 

Bacchus

Throbbing Member
Veteran
So be happy if you go to jail....because that WILL NOT CHANGE if you vote down Prop 19
 
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igrowone

Well-known member
Veteran
your entitled to your opinion but what is it based on, did u live in cali, did u have a medi card. do you know what the weed and the police scene is like here?

i did read it, i was referring to this part 'Meg Whitman and Jerry Brown have came out against Prop. 19, as have Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer.'
i probably didn't make myself clear, i am familiar with this family of weasels, who aren't much different than the weasels in my state
 

F_T_P!

Member
So be happy if you go to jail....because that WILL NOT CHANGE if you vote down Prop 19

There will be more ways to get locked up if 19 passes and there is ZERO protection with 19.

It is draconian legislation designed to tax and destroy what freedom we have in the cannabis market.
 

Barnt

Member
It is draconian legislation designed to tax and destroy what freedom we have in the cannabis market.

Ah yes, the freedom for a one way ticket to "Do not pass go, go straight to jail".


What the opposition doesn't realize is this law can be changed once it is voted in. If this fails it will be 10 more years before this opportunity comes up again. Every other state will be set back in their legalization attempts because "even California couldn't do it".

Read up on how alcohol was re-legalized. It starts at the state level, then went to federal. If we pass, other states will pass, and eventually the feds will have to listen and change the laws. At that point we will have across the board legalization.


The choice is yours:

Vote yes and hope the law will be changed for the better in the next several years. Other states will use us as an example to legalize in their own state. In 10+- years we may see federal legalization.

Vote no and we won't see this on the ballot for another 10 years. Other states will have no chance because liberal California didn't do it. Federal legalization will be 20+ years out.

I just want to be able to smoke my joint at home after work without worrying about going to jail or loosing my job. I don't care about 18 year olds being able to smoke. Hell, we were all supposed to wait till 21 to drink and you don't hear anyone bitching about changing the laws to 18. How many of you drank underage? That was illegal...essentially the same as what will happen with weed being legalized with this law.


VOTE YES!
 

ReelBusy1

Breeder
ICMag Donor
The details of the Prop 19 that divide the MJ community will NEVER NEVER EVER be discussed in the media if and when the bill's defeat is trumpeted by the enemies of cannabis.

No one will say "well pot growers wanted a bigger area to grow in or they would have voted for it."

All they will say is that the majority of the public are AGAINST the legalization of pot."

Period.

That's the message.
Just like Prop 8.

Not the details of the legislation.

Not the fearmongering lies by the opponents of the bill, like Prop 8.

Just public humiliation for the very idea that good decent people would want that evil fucking weed to be a part of normal society.
The nerve of those stupid hippies.


Yup.
It's that simple .

It's yes/no, yae or nay, pass/fail to the general public.

Failure is unacceptable and will set the cannabis rights movement back another decade or two.

It's been 14 years since Prop 215.
That's how long it took to get this far.

Don't wait for another 14 years for another chance.

 
B

blancorasta

Ah yes, the freedom for a one way ticket to "Do not pass go, go straight to jail".
what are you talkin about? no semi intelligent person in cali gets arrested for weed. either you carry no more than 1 ounce (just like prop 19) and if your silly or unlucky enough to get caught you pay a small fine, or go medical.

prop 215 is for everyone not just those with aids and cancer. if you live in cali and you smoke, you should grow your own, and if you grow you should have a medi rec. its legal

If this fails it will be 10 more years before this opportunity comes up again. Every other state will be set back in their legalization attempts because "even California couldn't do it".
why would it take ten more years, what leads you to believe this?
it was around this time last year that prop 19 was proposed as AB 390 in that time it was reviewed and gained enough support through signitures to be put on the ballot this year so i dont see why a better bill couldn't do the same. with what i mentioned above Cali citizens can afford to hold our ground a little longer without excepting the first piece of legialtive junk put on our plate. look at 215, there are other states that have even better mmj by using 215 as a foundation an building on it. so why not review prop 19 and use it's strong points to right a better bill with less flaws and do it as right as possible the first time

Read up on how alcohol was re-legalized. It starts at the state level, then went to federal. If we pass, other states will pass, and eventually the feds will have to listen and change the laws. At that point we will have across the board legalization.

alcohol was criminalized and de-criminalized by amending the constitution of the united states through an act of congress. a much much much larger feat than we are taliking about here in california.

what we are talking about doesnt conflict with the consititution at all if anything prohibition is what is against the constitution

I just want to be able to smoke my joint at home after work without worrying about going to jail or loosing my job.

if you live in Cali this doesnt happen if your semi intelligent.
we dont go to jail for smoking at home, in our front yards or in public for that matter; medical or not, if your not an idiot. (like smoking around families in plain sight of police, and other grossly obvious scenarios)

and there is always ways to beat drug test; and if you work at a job that tests, you should be able to afford the kits that beat them.

my two cents,
peace
 

L-Immortal

Member
if you live in Cali this doesnt happen if your semi intelligent.
we dont go to jail for smoking at home, in our front yards or in public for that matter; medical or not, if your not an idiot.

and there is always ways to beat drug test;, and if you work at a job that tests, you should be able to afford the kits that beat them.

my two cents,
peace


LOL now that’s the truth but idiots are running in packs unfortunately some folks just don’t get it. You could smack em in the head with a 2x4 and still nothing would click.
 
B

blancorasta

L-immortal,
LOL... for sure ive been running into alot lately and trying that very tactic alas to no avail. some people are just so narrow sighted and or programmed. what can you really do? laugh it of i guess LOL...HA HA...ha...ah uh uhhh.......awe (decending laughter to a sigh of discontent)

thanks for reinforcing my sanity, lol

peace
 
J

JackTheGrower

The details of the Prop 19 that divide the MJ community will NEVER NEVER EVER be discussed in the media if and when the bill's defeat is trumpeted by the enemies of cannabis.

No one will say "well pot growers wanted a bigger area to grow in or they would have voted for it."

All they will say is that the majority of the public are AGAINST the legalization of pot."

Period.

That's the message.
Just like Prop 8.

Not the details of the legislation.

Not the fearmongering lies by the opponents of the bill, like Prop 8.

Just public humiliation for the very idea that good decent people would want that evil fucking weed to be a part of normal society.
The nerve of those stupid hippies.


Yup.
It's that simple .

It's yes/no, yae or nay, pass/fail to the general public.

Failure is unacceptable and will set the cannabis rights movement back another decade or two.

It's been 14 years since Prop 215.
That's how long it took to get this far.

Don't wait for another 14 years for another chance.


In a way.. I see what you write to be true.

We have Tax2010 to blame for not presenting something we all could unite behind actually.

If I read the folks at the Meeting I went to right the hope was to pander to the No vote people by adding all the restrictions that Prop 19 has.. Like the property rights over peoples rights.
And adding felonies when there wer already laws on the books for those acts.

So it's a Gamble the Tax2010 people took.

If we are not able to pass this we need to get right back on that horse and try again. It's just a mater of Time.

This next time lets have something that really gives us cannabis freedom.

Renters are already subject to contract so adding that in Prop19 was a bad idea. And Jobs.. We all know that corporations see us as employees at work and they can punish us for off work activities too so the next one should protect us.
 

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