Sick little babies, maybe high PH?

[TrueGangsta148]

Ah back in the old days i'd just use a digital ph meter since i used to do hydro. now i'm keeping the plant count low and doing it simple, so i'm doing dirt.

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on? off and on for 3 weeks
What STRAIN are you growing? trinity, applewatta(??)
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) clone
What is the age of your plants? 5,3 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?3 days
How Tall are the plants?10",8"
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?veg
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) about 4 gallons square buckets
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)moonshine mix +30% coco
What Nutrient's are you using?greenfuse root 1ml per l, liquid karma 2 ml per l, PBP 1 ml per l, every other watering

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? dunno
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? dunno
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?using aquarium color changing drops. ph is between 6.2 and 6.8 when watering.
How often are you watering?when dry
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using? tt105 420 W
What is the distance to the canvopy? 6"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) ??
What is the canopy temperature???
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)??
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)??
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? a box fan, on a timer, 5 on 15 off while lights are running
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? it dried all the way out once and they suffered, otherwise not too moist but not dried out
Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? tap water, left out over night and bubbled.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?not lately
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?no
Are plant's infected with pest's? minor spider mites on smallest applewatta, i washed it thoroughly and they were set back, will be using insect soap before flowering.


these guys came from a clinic, the trin were gimpy when i got them, they slowly came around, then got dried out when i was gone and my caretaker screwed it up. after slowly coming back they'er doing this funky leaf curl. I think its high ph, i've been lowering the ph a bit more each watering, its not getting better. I am using bromothymol blue chemical coloring drops, 3 drps per 5 ml water. using lemon juice as ph down, just ran out of that and found my old gh ph down. had been feeding plain water for a while, after the roots drying out i got some greenfuse root stimulator to try to help bring them back, have been using that about half strenght for the last few waters.

The applewatta clones were growing vigorously and now have a bit of foldup in the new leaves, kinda taco like. seems like Mg deficiency if i remember? can you foliar feed epsom salts? i just gave these girls a good drink and dont want to over water them to get the mg, but dont want to wait 3-4 days till they're thirsty again. thanks for any help!!

TG

 

[TrueGangsta148]

one more photo here of the applewatta

 

[Weedninja]

You called it, man..its pH. I can see how you would think that its Mag curl, but that's just how it starts. I would just keep watering them with pH'd water and maybe even flush. Don't flower them until you get it straightened out.

 

[TrueGangsta148]

Okay, so i started this thead suspecting ph issues, and after looking at the mynameisstitch sticky in the infirmary, i decided it was high ph. here is what the sticky has to say about ph-

"Ph Problems

One of the first signs of having a slight ph problem is, your plant having part of the leaves kind of twisty, spotty with brown, yellowish, red spots within each other.
Sometimes they don’t have to have all the colors, they could just be spots that have yellowish brown, or just reddish brown and can happen anywhere on the plant. Mainly starts on big fan leaves then goes to little leaves."

This doesnt sound quite right, as this talks about affecting big fan leaves first, and mine are all affecting new growth. from the time the leaves come out of the nodes, they're twisty, and get worse, then about a week after they're full size htey' lay mostly flat, although some of the ones that were curled the worst stay wrinkly. also, this says the issue will "start with colored spots" which i have no spots at all. this issue has been affecting some of my plants for nearly a month now, so its definatetly not in the early primary stages.

"Here are a few pictures of ph spotting before nutrient lockout occurs. The last pic is shown is high ph with the twisty leaves. Note the edges are brown, this is a potassium deficiency that is caused by ph lockout.(Sometimes this gets confused with a nitrogen toxicity, so always keep your ph in check and test it often!)

Props goes to Chemical Burn For the Picture!

as you can see from these photos, and the text, according to the author, if you have low ph, then your first sypmtoms will be spots, if you have a different first syptom, then thats not your problem. The second photo, showing high ph, has twisty leaves and little discoloration. this seemed like what i was encountering. I was using drops to test the ph of the water, and i thought, based on my opinions, the sticky, and the above poster, that i should lower my ph to fix the issue. I watered with some lower ph water (~5) to bring them back down, and it made the issues much worse, esp on the applewatta which had only show minor issues before. after this going on slowly for a week or more after posting this original thread, i decided to dust off the old meter and rehydrate the probes and calibrate etc. It turns out, i had been watering them with around 6.0-6.2 instead of 6.4-6.6 so it WAS LOW PH THAT CAUSED TWISTING! i think. after i figured this out, i watered them once with ph7 water, and have continued after that with 6.5. THe veggies and applewatta have grown out of it totally, but the 2 trinity are being much more hesitant.


This is also a weird issue, because it only seems to affect the fastest growing or uppermost shoots. The branches that have been closest to the lights have showed the most curling, while other tops of branches 4-6" lower have grown this whole time with no curls at all, and other branches show a month of curled growth down the stem. I've raised my lights a few times (tt105's now at 6-8") and it doesnt seem to be helping.

What should i do now? i want to start flowering soon, but trin is super finicky so i want it to be going healthy when i start. I added some current pics, the last one shows a lower branch that has been mostly unnaffected and hastn showed the serious curling ever, though the tops have ben being funky (to different degrees) for a month.

 

[TrueGangsta148]

here are a few more pictures, of the whole plants. the first 2 are the healthier one. you can see most of the lower growth seems normal, but a bit of curlin at the top. the last photo shows the more affected plant.

 

[TrueGangsta148]

..... anyone?

 

[Misterboy]

Did you solve this problem? I'm seeing something similar on my plants. I'm in Veg. The newest leaves are growing in very curled. The rest of the plant seems healthy. I had a low PH due to Coco buffering, but I fixed that with a lot of flushing.

My current guess is continued PH problems OR overwatering... though I think it's PH related.

Thx for any help!

 

[DankasaurusRex]

It looks like ph issues AND overwatering to me. You should definitely be checking the ph of your runoff. It lets you know what you need to change next watering. Also ph issues don't look one certain way. Depending on which way it's swinging and how severe, any number of nutrients can get locked out and cause what look like deficiencies. However, drooping, downward curling, leaves is almost always a sign of over/underwatering. Usually over. Does it get worse the day of or after watering? Transitioning from hydro to soil takes some work. Oh, and how are temps? Looks maybe a little warm in there?