CGE NOOB! Setting up 2 4k cge grow rooms

[IHeartPot]

Hi im new to this site but definitely not new to growing. Pretty soon i will embarking on a very large setup. In the next month im going to be acquiring a 5 bdrm house and *i plan to trick out 2 bedrooms for growing. After doing a lot of research i realized that most super efficient grow rooms incorporate a CGE (closed growing environment) design for the grow room. This whole CGE idea seems like its going to be hard and far too advAnced if attempted, but i have no choice as i wont only the best for my plants. This is where i need your help my weed smoking comrades. I want to figure out how to efficiently put a cge room together, but i also want this thread to serve as a very detailed example of how to design your very own CGE grow room. I forgot that im a complete noob to CO2, so this is for all those CO2 noobs as well. So if some of questions seem noobish thats becuz they ARE!

Now lets get started!
The room will be 8' with a 1000w being used in every 4'x 4'
I have a co2 tank and regulator but havent quited settled on a controller. What kind of controller should i get? Should i get one that controls the ac unit and dehumidifier? Do i need a dehumidifier? What kind of Ac unit should i get for this room? And where do i mount ac unit? In the wall of the room? Help please!!!!!

 

[IHeartPot]

I have yet another question...Im going to be building two sealed boxes in two seperate rooms. My question is this...once ive built the frame should i wrap it in plywood then panda film or should i just staple the panda film onto the studs? Also, how would i go about building a door for this room inside a room? The essential panda film door wont work for this cge operation, this bad boy must be completely sealed!

 

[Dr. Buddington]

Hey man. The gear you can get is largely dependent on your budget, but I'll try to answer some questions anyways.
I would find a 2 ton split AC system for each room. You can handle extra couple lights with it if you choose to expand, plus it will be less stressful for the AC to handle the load, since it will be over sized; Mr.Slim is a good brand name, if you got some cash and looking for easy install (not that Mr.slim is difficult to install, just takes longer) look into an Excel air AC. Both of those can be wall mounted. The price difference between the two is quite noticeable.

You should also get a good dehumidifier; even though an AC is already a dehumidifier, it will be on only 12 hours a day so you need to cover the night time humidity.

As for your CO2 controller - I've used a CAP PPM - 2a "Fuzzy Logic" for 4 years now without any issues whatsoever. The guys that used to make CAP products now make Sentinel brand controllers which are pretty good.

As for the room construction - you should build a 2x4 frame, plywood on the outside, then some fiberglass insulation and on the inside I would put mold resistant drywall and paint it white. You can get away with less and panda film but remember that your AC will work less and noise will be down if your room is well insulated. As for you door - either buy a 100 dollar discount door or build one from plywood and lumber, as for sealing it - Home Depot or another home improvement store has a large section dedicated to draft-proofing, find an appropriate thickness of material for your application, once the door is in.

Overall CGE's are my favorite because you have exact control over your garden. It takes a bit of planning and cash but once properly set-up and dialed in a CGE room will show its benefits in no time

 

[IHeartPot]

Money isnt an issue when your building the perfect grow room

Money isnt an issue when your building the perfect grow room

Dr. Buddington, i do indeed appreciate your advice. We are totally on the same page, but i have a few questions my friend. So ac split system can be mounted in the wall? An excel air system is a split system? And out of the two acs you described, what do you thibk is the best? And do i really need a 2 ton ac? I thought i could get a 12k btu ac per room and be ok!
Also, for cooling the lights would you reccomend one big ass 10in per room or should i use two 8in per room too kool the 4 1ks that'll be in eacv room?
Now on to controllers, ive heard bad stuff about the cap controller. I hear sentinel is the best thing goin, is that accurate?
Now lets talk about room construction...so your saying build theframe, dry wall on the interior, and insulation between the two? Sounds smart!
Cges are the ultimate ggrow rooms! Im diving deeper and deeper into this cult! I cant wait to drink the cool aid!

 

[Lazyman]

If you are air cooling hoods it's a pain in the ass, but a single 6" can cool 4 hoods if the ducting is straight, I'd do a 6" for each pair of hoods since I doubt they will be in a straight chain.

For AC a split system is ideal, and yes a two-ton would be best. A 12K can theoretically cool 3 lights if non air-cooled, maybe 4-5 if air cooled hoods but I wouldn't cut it that close. Hot days tax AC's hard when the lights are on. Assuming you want to run a flip flop?

How many grows have you done before this? Figure on spending about $2k per light for a sealed room in raw space. See my sig for details on the CO2 and sealed rooms.

 

[IHeartPot]

Thanx for stopping by lazyman, im a big fan bro. I still havent reached the final page of lazymanys 16kw grow, respect! Yea i dont plan on lining them up in one single row, i plan on lining them in 2 rows with 2 1k hps lights in each row. Now do you really think 2 6 inchers will properly cool these hoods? Can ac split systems be mounted in the wall? Ive been growing for 5 years sir, i kno i may sound like a noob but ive grown and still grow enrmous amounts of great pot. Ive jus never used an ac nor co2 and my bulbs were hung vertically so there was no need to cool hoods. Im jus a noob at cge but i know you guys are smart and by the end of this thread i will be well read on the subject!

 

[Shcrews]

my thoughts

get a sentinel co2 monitor. easy to use, and a 3 year warranty.

dehuey and AC can be set individually, no need for a controller for all of them, unless you want to spend the extra $

AC goes in the window.. if no window, then use a dual-hose portable in each room, 10-15kbtu per room

 

[opt1c]

well if you get a large enough split ac save all the money on hoods/fans and just run vert bare bulbs with co2... i'd be spending all my money on ac's

that and if you run a flip flop you can save some on ballasts... would be a nice clean efficient grow

aircooling everything will be a huge initial investment and may not be worth it if you already have the vert equipment

 

[Lazyman]

my thoughts

get a sentinel co2 monitor. easy to use, and a 3 year warranty.

dehuey and AC can be set individually, no need for a controller for all of them, unless you want to spend the extra $

AC goes in the window.. if no window, then use a dual-hose portable in each room, 10-15kbtu per room

I agree with the first two, but window AC's leak CO2, as do dual hose portables. All portable AC's are super expensive and very ineeficient. A 15K BTU portable offers about 10K BTU in cooling.

 

[Dr. Buddington]

Dr. Buddington, i do indeed appreciate your advice. We are totally on the same page, but i have a few questions my friend. So ac split system can be mounted in the wall? An excel air system is a split system? And out of the two acs you described, what do you thibk is the best? And do i really need a 2 ton ac? I thought i could get a 12k btu ac per room and be ok!
Also, for cooling the lights would you reccomend one big ass 10in per room or should i use two 8in per room too kool the 4 1ks that'll be in eacv room?
Now on to controllers, ive heard bad stuff about the cap controller. I hear sentinel is the best thing goin, is that accurate?
Now lets talk about room construction...so your saying build theframe, dry wall on the interior, and insulation between the two? Sounds smart!
Cges are the ultimate ggrow rooms! Im diving deeper and deeper into this cult! I cant wait to drink the cool aid!

Hey IHeartPot. some people probably disagree with me, but IMO if you are doing a CGE set up, you might as well buy a bigger AC and not mess around with all the air cooled hoods, fans and ducting; plus either way the reflector eats up some lumens.

Excel air AC's are overpriced just because they are designed for our particular hobby, which I guess justifies charging double the price of a similar system. I personally have used an Excel AIr 5 ton stealth AC and it was worth the money imo ($7500) just for the "silent" operation. http://www.excelair.ca

As for the controllers - I bought my CAP "Fuzzy Logic" a while back, before the guys who formed Sentinel left CAP, I would by a Sentinel if I were you. BTW I think "Fuzzy Logic" is available in Sentinel controllers since its designed for bottle operation specifically. IMO if you have a natural gas/propane outlet nearby, its a lot easier to buy a NG/PROP CO2 generator and run a gas line to it (which is very simple btw, like connecting a bbq). You'd avoid all the CO2 bottles, which IMO are a bulky security threat (unless your grow is at a welder store or something, lol)

As for your room itself - it has to be insulated. This extends the life of your AC and negates lots of unwanted noise and smell. Plywood on the outside is a good additional barrier between your girls and the world. I would also put poly and seal all the holes with that black sticky shit insulators use (it doesn't dry ever so no cracks form in it, just look up "fiberglass insulation installation"

 

[IHeartPot]

my thoughts

get a sentinel co2 monitor. easy to use, and a 3 year warranty.

dehuey and AC can be set individually, no need for a controller for all of them, unless you want to spend the extra $

AC goes in the window.. if no window, then use a dual-hose portable in each room, 10-15kbtu per room

Schrew...thanx for joining in. Yea, i planned on mounting the ac in the wall of my box(grow room inside a room).

 

[IHeartPot]

well if you get a large enough split ac save all the money on hoods/fans and just run vert bare bulbs with co2... i'd be spending all my money on ac's

that and if you run a flip flop you can save some on ballasts... would be a nice clean efficient grow

aircooling everything will be a huge initial investment and may not be worth it if you already have the vert equipment

I definitely plan on running the ROOMS on a flip flop, there will be 4 1ks in each room. Are u saying use 4 ballasts to power 8 lights?...how is that possible?

I agree with the first two, but window AC's leak CO2, as do dual hose portables. All portable AC's are super expensive and very ineeficient. A 15K BTU portable offers about 10K BTU in cooling.

Split systen Ac's dont leak? Whats the difference between split ac and dual hose? And i heard the leak in window ac's are very minimal, but the leak on portables are far worse...maybe that person was wrong..i would love to hear your insight!

 

[IHeartPot]

Hey IHeartPot. some people probably disagree with me, but IMO if you are doing a CGE set up, you might as well buy a bigger AC and not mess around with all the air cooled hoods, fans and ducting; plus either way the reflector eats up some lumens.

Excel air AC's are overpriced just because they are designed for our particular hobby, which I guess justifies charging double the price of a similar system. I personally have used an Excel AIr 5 ton stealth AC and it was worth the money imo ($7500) just for the "silent" operation. http://www.excelair.ca

As for the controllers - I bought my CAP "Fuzzy Logic" a while back, before the guys who formed Sentinel left CAP, I would by a Sentinel if I were you. BTW I think "Fuzzy Logic" is available in Sentinel controllers since its designed for bottle operation specifically. IMO if you have a natural gas/propane outlet nearby, its a lot easier to buy a NG/PROP CO2 generator and run a gas line to it (which is very simple btw, like connecting a bbq). You'd avoid all the CO2 bottles, which IMO are a bulky security threat (unless your grow is at a welder store or something, lol)

As for your room itself - it has to be insulated. This extends the life of your AC and negates lots of unwanted noise and smell. Plywood on the outside is a good additional barrier between your girls and the world. I would also put poly and seal all the holes with that black sticky shit insulators use (it doesn't dry ever so no cracks form in it, just look up "fiberglass insulation installation"

You're right. It seems like its a unanimous decision to go with a big ac. These big ac's are unmountable right? They would have to be place inside the grow room?
** * Is this why people use co2 burners jnstead of using the 20lb co2 bottles? I know burners cause unwantedheat, but there is no need for tanks if you get a burner huh?
** *As far as the room..the construction idea sounds perfect. So after ive built the basic frame, put plywood on the exterior first or put drywall on the interior first, or does it not matter? Put the insulation between them, seal the room with the insulation shit, then apply poly? Does that sound about right?

 

[IHeartPot]

And where the hell do i put the outdoor unit of the split ac system? Wall mpunted acs dont cum in 20000btu-24000btu?

 

[opt1c]

thats the flip/flop... the 4 ballasts stay on 24/7 and flip between rooms every 12 hours

I think the ac's have a remote part as well that goes outside the grow room; a few water cooled acs are self standing but u need to get the plumbing right for all the extra water and i've heard humidity can be a problem with em so i'd go with the traditional minisplits... u have a backyard right? 5bedroom no backyard?

i think the frostbox works well as do the stealth air units; from what i can read life is much simpler if each room has its own ac; splitting one between two rooms seems to be a bitch of a bitch but there may be some product out there that makes it a walk in the park

if you're only running 4k and don't plan on going bigger in the future than you might be able to get away with window ac units which are much cheaper depending on your ambient temps outside

 

[dtfsux]

And where the hell do i put the outdoor unit of the split ac system? Wall mpunted acs dont cum in 20000btu-24000btu?

Put the outside unit..... outside??

Actually you can put it in a garage but it needs ventilation. They generate alot of heat and it needs to go somewhere.


I have used a LG 24,000 BTU to cool a veg room that ran around 5,000 watts of lighting, none air cooled.. It also never leaked smell



For the flip flop. You have 4 ballasts wired to a switch. one side of the switch connects to 4 lights, the other side to the other 4 lights. every 12 hours, the switch switches, and the other 4 bulbs are powered.

It uses a simple timer and contactor. There are some things to know but that is a flip explained in very basic terms.

 

[IHeartPot]

thats the flip/flop... the 4 ballasts stay on 24/7 and flip between rooms every 12 hours

I think the ac's have a remote part as well that goes outside the grow room; a few water cooled acs are self standing but u need to get the plumbing right for all the extra water and i've heard humidity can be a problem with em so i'd go with the traditional minisplits... u have a backyard right? 5bedroom no backyard?

i think the frostbox works well as do the stealth air units; from what i can read life is much simpler if each room has its own ac; splitting one between two rooms seems to be a bitch of a bitch but there may be some product out there that makes it a walk in the park

if you're only running 4k and don't plan on going bigger in the future than you might be able to get away with window ac units which are much cheaper depending on your ambient temps outside

*
So how would i setup the ballasts so i dont have to pik em up and run em over to the next room? I like the idea, thats really, realky smart, i jus dont wamna have to go from room carrying hot ballasts. The mini split imdoor portiom can be mounted in the wall of my big grow box right? And i would put the remote part in the back yard?
But i definitely dont plan on boing bigger than 4k so i think i could get away with a 16k window ac mounted in the wall with cooled hoods. And i definitely plan on using an ac per room but i wont be goibg bigger than 4k per room thats why i think it would be cheaper yet efficient to run a 16k btu window ac mounted in the wall if each room. Plus ambient temps are really cool, and we are approaching winter!

 

[IHeartPot]

Put the outside unit..... outside??

Actually you can put it in a garage but it needs ventilation. They generate alot of heat and it needs to go somewhere.


I have used a LG 24,000 BTU to cool a veg room that ran around 5,000 watts of lighting, none air cooled.. It also never leaked smell



For the flip flop. You have 4 ballasts wired to a switch. one side of the switch connects to 4 lights, the other side to the other 4 lights. every 12 hours, the switch switches, and the other 4 bulbs are powered.

It uses a simple timer and contactor. There are some things to know but that is a flip explained in very basic terms.

The lg that you used was a split ac system?*So connected to the flip flop is the ballasts that are wired to it, one side 4 *lights, the other side 4 lights, but the lighys are in seperate rooms...what is the best flip flop out there...i had no idea what a flip flop DEVICE was...i need to know more!

 

[unta]

*
So how would i setup the ballasts so i dont have to pik em up and run em over to the next room? I like the idea, thats really, realky smart, i jus dont wamna have to go from room carrying hot ballasts. The mini split imdoor portiom can be mounted in the wall of my big grow box right? And i would put the remote part in the back yard?
But i definitely dont plan on boing bigger than 4k so i think i could get away with a 16k window ac mounted in the wall with cooled hoods. And i definitely plan on using an ac per room but i wont be goibg bigger than 4k per room thats why i think it would be cheaper yet efficient to run a 16k btu window ac mounted in the wall if each room. Plus ambient temps are really cool, and we are approaching winter!

hahaha no ballast carrying bro! The ballast and bulbs all plug into a flip-flop box (relays that switch the power between bulbs) that maintains which bulbs are powered and when. This way you simply plug the ballasts in 24/7 and the power would flip every 12 hrs between each set of 4 1ks, like others said before. make sense? you can search flip flops and find some more great info as well. good luck.

 

[dtfsux]

The LG was a window unit around $400

The flip is pretty simple and alot of people make their own.

http://nowirenuts.ca/
He makes custom flips built to your specs

http://www.horticontrol.com/