Badass Digital Ballasts from Advanced nutrients

[couchlockd]

well the advanced nutients webb site is all new looking and i saw that they have a little bit of gear for sale now.

one item of which is a digital ballast called "BADASS BALLASTS" they are digital and look like a kicker/infinity car amplifier with fans that blow out through the top.

they arent dimmable or "select-a-wattage" style or anything other than a straight up digital ballasts.

looks pretty solid but an pushing ballasts kinda iffy if you know much about thier marketing, but needless to say they look pretty descent

BIG QUESTION? anybody here have one, looking to get one etc. and what do they think about it and how does it perform??

keep it green
Couchlockd

 

[supermanlives]

is it as overpriced as their nutes. does it have a bunch of unrealistic statements.

 

[Cannarado]

is it as overpriced as their nutes. does it have a bunch of unrealistic statements.

Yea... so worthless that most commercial growers use Advance. Its funny how those who havent (or cant afford) used AN are the ones saying their worthless products. Funny how they put a 100% money back guarantee... on a "Crap Product". If its a crap product... who cares? Take it back then and get your "Better" nutes.

Give it AT LEAST a year. Let those with money shell out for it to work the bugs out. Lights seem to be the new trend - Lumatek has their new Super Lumen light stuff going on too. What i've heard is "It broke. It popped. Bulb went out." If it hasnt broken... the results were "OMG This is my last light." But with any new product... you'll have your failures (Ipod, Iphone ect)

If its advanced, i couldnt help but say it'd deff help with a bumper crop - but not without getting all the bugs out first. I wouldnt buy it as my only light - If ya did get a buggy one your crop is going to HATE you. However, if your looking to play with bigger and better... id say you got it.

I took a look at it... Love it. Deff see me picking one up when i need a new ballast. Everyone talked (and still trys) crap about Lumateks at first... Funny how my Lumatek on a $20 bulb puts out more light then a magnetic on a EYE... oh and costs way less to run as well...

I personally am highly excited to see (And hear the name) of this ballast.

 

[pokergod]

Until digitals are the standard, then I will wait, mag & coil are 1/3 the price and still the industry standard. I will wait til all the bugs are worked out and they are more efficient. Just like when the LCD tvs came in, I didn't buy 720p, 1080i, no I waited til 1080p, now the have 240hz and 3D! Technology will only get better, as will the pricing, right now the cost/benefits are not there for the digitals.

 

[Cannarado]

Until digitals are the standard, then I will wait, mag & coil are 1/3 the price and still the industry standard. I will wait til all the bugs are worked out and they are more efficient. Just like when the LCD tvs came in, I didn't buy 720p, 1080i, no I waited til 1080p, now the have 240hz and 3D! Technology will only get better, as will the pricing, right now the cost/benefits are not there for the digitals.

What makes something "The Standard". And why is whats "Standard" whats best? Ever researched marine aquariums? Lumatek has become a standard - Every shop in my town swares by them. If im running a business with 100 ballast - with the increase in cost im sure not going to run out and buy all new electronics. But again... those in my town that dont run greenhouses are running digital, or slowly switching over. With 3x the bulb life and often 5-10% less energy - at the commercial level, the littlest thing becomes the biggest gain/loss...

After having a chance to read its advertisement in its entirety - i laughed a little bit. They are proud to be made in Japan... lawl. But thats cool - they back it up with a valid point... I'd take a Subaru over a new 2010 vette... i dont like my body parts made by "Rubbermaid" even tho it was in america.

It sounds to me just like another digital ballast on the market. Im most interested in what the price is going to be. If its reasonable, i'll take it. I love lumatek. Owned two, zero problems. Want to get a Quantum next (To lazy to build a flip for my Lumatek (Its doable)) and see how they do. I doubt however that i will get a galaxy or nextgen just because they seem behind on the digital technology.

I've researched digital ballast quite a bit. I have a bit of personal testing to do with them yet - but theres a ton of unknown information about digital.

Advanced's selling points are the same as everyone else's -

- Dimmable
- Lower energy use
- Higher output
- RF Shielding
- Less heat
- Longer Lasting
- Faster startup
- Convertable light
- 120/240v
- Silent
- 5 Year warranty

Here's whats not known and still being found out...

- Lumatek is Sealed meaning no harmful dust/smoke/ect to mess up electronics.
- Lumatek has a pro-rated warranty. I do not know about others.
- Lumatek cannot be used with Flips. They have "Error Sensing" and it is not recommended.
- Lumatek is the only company to have a "Overdrive" setting. - Still new to the market, i have one, love it.
- Every manufacturer, Galaxy, NextGen, Quantum, Lumatek, and soon to be Advanced have the same issues - RF interference, Wont work with all bulbs, and anything else you hear.

This is the reasoning behind not all bulbs working with all ballast and why you'll hear a bunch of people complain "Such ballast sucks, it blows up bulbs" or similar.

--"[FONT=&quot]Most electronic ballasts do not comply with ANSI ratings. This means that each e.ballast brand can be different. Compound this with actual variations in the production runs from the same manufacturer/brand and you can see why system dependability is easily compromised. These are clearly NOT lamp issues but ballast challenges to be improved upon. If you chose to operate our lamp on a ballast that does not meet these ANSI specifications, lamp life and performance MAY be dramatically reduced. Since the quality of artificial light is paramount to successful plant photosynthesis and optimum growth, it would seem ill-advised to compromise lamp performance in favor of unproven ballast technology
"--


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Digital is definitively the way to go IMO. I wasnt a fan of Lumatek's Customer support (UK or US), and thats another reason im more willing to try AN or Quantum. But until i do try another - I love lumatek's.[/FONT]

 

[Bud Bug]

Seems like vapor ware like their new formulas/products. They've been advertising those ballast for two + years here.

 

[pokergod]

Cannarado, the marine aquariums are upto 400 watt digitals, big deal. They still have not got all the bugs out of the 1000 watts yet. What makes an industry standard? when one product makes another obolete, ie Bluray vs HD Dvd. Did you notice how Bluray players have come down in price as it has become the standard and the technology became efficient. I will wait til the digitals come down to $150. The badass has a 7 yr warranty and not 5 as you stated, do you think you're going to pay extra for the warranty, you bet you will. The digitals have 5 yr warranties because the are not proven technology yet.(1000 watts) When they have only around 5% returns on defects will I consider them proven. Just my 0.02

 

[Cannarado]

Cannarado, the marine aquariums are upto 400 watt digitals, big deal.

What?! I dont think you know much about what your talkin about there. What law states that 400w is a max?! Theres PLENTY of tanks with 1000w's and such.

How is it not "proven" technology? "Proven" Is in the eyes of the beholder. Its fact however that digital can produce more light, with less heat, and less energy. What more do you want? The safety of a ballast that shuts down entirely at the first sign of anything wrong? A ballast so smart it can realize if a bulbs not fireing and keep igniting it creating a huge possible problem with fire? Thats my biggest deal... Peace of mind. Even if my ballast does suck - i know its not going to be the cause of any fire or problem because its the only ballast with true error sensing.

Theres not going to be much in the way of anything with such a small "dis-satisfaction" rate. Just because its returned doesnt mean it didnt work or anything. Also, you'll have different readings in different area's. Where i live now hates lumateks - Where i used to live swares by them.

And again... People complain about the problems... yet My 2 Lumateks are fine, My friends 4 year old dual 600w is fine, his 2 1000w's are fine, all his friends use lumatek 1000w's - all problem free. You'll find your ups and downs with everything. Most of its skeptics that hate on products with no use with them.

The only problem i see with digital is where its headed. With Lumateks high Par Lamp, now this ballast... seems products that are taking for ever to come out - are going to suck for a long time. Prolly gonna hit a nerve but its like Apple products... more hype and price then its worth haha...

It just erks me so much to read all this about how "Digital sucks, Digital isnt worth it" blah blah... all by people who dont, and have never owned a digital. Its people who havent researched the information. I've messed with mag ballasts for a long time (not grow purpose... but still) and i've delt with Digital. Ive stuck with lumatek, but friends have played with others and over all.. Lumatek is where its at for us. But to each their own...

 

[couchlockd]

hey all shucks, it looks as if i have gone and stirred up the ol' digi VX. magnetic battle again.

well heres my stand point on digitalls.

i have and have been running for four years now, without a single issue at all, futurre brite digitall ballast. i have a 175 watt, 250 watt, (2) 400 watt, and (2) 600 watt Future brite digitalls and i bought them all inmarch of 2006. Oh, i had a screw that keept on coming loose on the 250 watts dual cooling fans setup. one of the four screws in one of the duall fans would not stay tight and was making alittle noise, so they replaced it on the spot with a newer bigger single fan cooling setup like on the 400 and 600 wattters i got.

i shit you not the 175 has been running full 24 hours a day since then day i bought it, all the others had a steady diet of 20/4,18/6 and 12/12 also since the day i got them. used plus rite bulbs at firstr then whe they needed replace switched to all hortilux and venture(175 mh) and never looked back.

i have had zero "hortilux and digital ballast incompatability" issues with them and i personally have to say every other brand is not up to par like FB digitals are. cuz i have heard multiple reports of disgruntled users who were so taken back by the fact thatt their new out the box lumateks, next gen, quantum, galaxy, infinity etc. ballasts dont work or only work sporadically or they got to use this kind or that kind of bulb.

and i live close enough to the future brite distributor that i can go there on my way to the grocery store. so i have a very good relationship with them and see the 2+ hortilux bulbs come back in cuzz brand X digital ballast blew it up. or a ballast leeked all its resin out, or should not have been mounted in that position. CHRIST!! all these little quirks.

the only time ireally see the FB digitalls come back is when an older fan style duall fan cooling system need upgraded to the single fan system cuz they stopped working.

about a year ago i was looking to buy a new digital. just cause i was hearing good thing about next gens at the time, i went to the store and asked about it. by buddy the owner, ordered one for me as he was going to order some any way but i wantede the 400/600 one and he wasnt going to stock them ones so he went and made sure to get me one special. then he said he had a new brand called quantum and iff i wanted to try it it was a 400, with my pick of bulbs so i scooped up a venture daylight 400 mh and a ushio hilux 400 super red hps.

6 months in i had already repled the with a hortilux then when that blew i used a regular hps and that too failed misserbly the venture never had a problem.

now i was given the quantum to use till i got the next gen, which was back ordered. i gave the quantum back after the 3 hps bulbs blew out thier arc tubes from the quantum digi. when i went to give it back i gave the venture bac k with it and they took it and set it up with another hps and it didnt even start fully it flickered and flashed back and forth. they unplugged it and made sure all cords were tightly pluged in and let it cool and restarted it and it did the same thing again(bulb was plus rite) then they put the venture daylight mh in and it was been running in the store ever day since in a display.

i told him that i didnt really want the next gen any more and to take it off the order. cuzz i had zero confidnece in the other digitalls except for FB, so i looked at the three newer versions that had came out sinc my ballasts were the "new" ones and went with the dimmable jupiter from FB it is 600 400 and 250 setting on it.

so thats that the new one had zero issues but it is a differnt color than the rest of the new ones

 

[Cannarado]

SOOOOOOO.... after some digging... and digging... and digging... And 2 phatty blunts of a recent harvest -- I found some VERY interesting information.

First off - Ballast can be made in America, Europe, and China. Each country has their own "Safety Ratings" and they do not cross over, and not every product will attempt for anothers because they possibly dont care (going to try and look more into that fact).

America has ANSI
China sucks
Europe has CE

ANSI is a independent company that tests products for standardization and regulatory safety. CE is a label that is placed on a product provided the company feels that it meets Europes safety regulations for hazardous materials and ect. (Read more http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html) And again... DONT BUY CHINA. Ballasts arent something to cheap out on!

Secondly - In all honesty (comming from a honest "if i owned a grow shop" customer service view) there is no such thing as a "Crappy Ballast" - Magnetic or Digital. If you buy brand name - your getting a good product. Mostly its personal preference. All ballast work with all lamps - just sometimes with problems. While CE is self labeled; it is still a label saying it meets Europes safety standards... and yes, they are slightly lower then USA's UL ratings. There are penalties if it comes back to be that it doesnt meet Europes standards. And as far as "D.O.A." - You will get that across the board, Dig or Mag. Just digital components are more fragile and will be more prone to damage when handled improperly by Shipping.

Here's the deal with "Hortilux vs. Lumatek". For starters - This occurs with all Digital ballast. A lamp requires a specific fire volt, average being 4000. Hortilux like to be odd ones out with 3000-3500. However more recently, they have dropped down to 1500. Solormax bulbs doing the exact opposite - Increasing in volts needed as useage continues. And another thing i found out is that there is a bit of truth behind the frequency issue. Obviously its true it CAN mess up near electrical objects... easy fix - Wire your room better. However it also can mess with the gasses in the bulb. When a bulb is viewed with a welding shield you can physically see the gasses pulsing or vibrating from the extra frequency. Is it harmful? That im still to find a definitive answer.

Conclusion: Lumatek kicks ass. Hortilux Kicks ass. They both have problems. My verdict on Lumatek however, Still love them and wont look back. Boo hoo i cant use Horti's... My crops are good enough as is. It did however seem to be mostly the 600's with complaints. Its fact that you can search and find many people with Horti's on Lumateks (and other Digi's) for a year plus... so its not every person. I did find out more about Lumatek's microprocessor too. Its able to (after proper light) read the lights effectiveness and compensate for degrading and such. I only wish i had a Luxmeter and Welding shield to put forth testing to the information i've found. Until i have an issue (so far im 2 for 2 Perfect's) with a Lumatek, I dont think i'll swap over anytime soon.

(Heres where i got the info from http://www.skunkskool.com/showthread.php/8384-Lumatec-digital-ballast-warnings, as well as i had found 3 others who had talked with Jason (founder of Lumatek) and got the same answer.

 

[squarepush3r]

Yea... so worthless that most commercial growers use Advance. Its funny how those who havent (or cant afford) used AN are the ones saying their worthless products. Funny how they put a 100% money back guarantee... on a "Crap Product". If its a crap product... who cares? Take it back then and get your "Better" nutes.

actually the real commercial growers, like the ones who put the stuff in your fruit and vegetable isle at the grocery story, dont use AN, or any other brand names. They just mix it themselves or buy bulk.

 

[Cannarado]

actually the real commercial growers, like the ones who put the stuff in your fruit and vegetable isle at the grocery story, dont use AN, or any other brand names. They just mix it themselves or buy bulk.

I had a very very sarcastic assholeish comment... but i've already been whined at for that once before.

We are in the "Cannabis" growing forums. Thus we are talking Commercial weed growers. Advanced seems to want to say that they are for weed growing moreso, but I havent seen anything compared to Humbolts proudness.

And depends - What forum of commercial and how large scale are we talking?? Local market produce will buy or compost usually. Massive scale use homebrew's... and who knows what that can contain. Ever gotten the recipe for a commercial growers "Secret Formula"? Nope... so for all i know it could just be FoxFarm lawl.

Bonus thought - You said it yourself... Buy bulk. Why does this have to exclude AN? Can you prove this? I cant prove they do.. but for those i have talked to (farmers market, large scale 3 level house grows, ect) all love the Advanced.

If i were a large company and i didnt have the money to shell out for research or my own nutrient factory - I sure wouldnt mind striking a deal with a large company. Saves space, work, time... Each aspect has its ups and downs...

 

[couchlockd]

The LOW FREQ. BADDASS sounds promising!!

The LOW FREQ. BADDASS sounds promising!!

Advanced Nutrients new digital ballast. one wich is advertised to be BaddAss digital ballast, low frequency @ 100hz and the other is just called the baddass digital ballast super stealth next generation. first is the low freq, and all it claims

+ HERE'S WHY ADVANCED NUTRIENTS DEVELOPED THE FIRST LOW FREQUENCY DIGITAL BALLAST AND WHY YOU SHOULD PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT THIS BREAKTHROUGH TECHNOLOGY CAN DO FOR YOU...

ON THE ONE HAND, digital ballasts offer more technological advances … BUT … because they only run at higher frequencies, many growers find they don’t get the performance they want from their lamps that were designed years ago to operate on low frequency magnetic ballasts … due to the high frequency characteristics of these new digital ballasts and the acoustic resonance created by the electronic ballasts most lamp manufacturers won’t approve operation of their lamps on an electronic ballast…
To try and solve this problem, some growers stick to using magnetic ballasts because they operate at lower frequencies, more closely matching lamp technology … BUT … then you’re forced to give up the conveniences of newer digital ballasts.
Well, thanks to Advanced Nutrients, you no longer have to compromise! They’ve developed the first Low Frequency Dimmable Digital Ballast on the market today that’s designed to eliminate these problems and give you the performance AND reliability you’re looking for. Here’s just a few other reasons why it may be perfect for your growing needs too:


INTRODUCING THE MARKETS FIRST LOW FREQUENCY DIMMABLE DIGITAL BALLAST
Scientific testing shows current digital ballasts all take the same approach to operating lamps by using sawtooth wave forms operating at high frequencies (usually in the 20,000Hz - 50,000Hz range or greater). Also, due to poor circuit design, they tend to have an unstable wave form as well as not maintaining constant output levels. This combination of wave instability and high frequency signal cause acoustic resonance greatly reducing lamp reliability and consistency. Compare that to the bottom image of Advanced Nutrient’s low-frequency ballast, totally engineered from the ground up to address these issues by operating at true low-frequencies... driving the lamp under conditions it was designed for... perfectly matching available lamp technology ...AND... producing steady and consistent output levels to the lamp. The result is better performance, longer lamp life and more reliable lighting for your growing needs.

Quantum Dimmable 1000w Ballast
Operating Frequency: 33,000 Hz

Lumatek Super Lumen 1000w Ballast
Operating Frequency: 56,000 Hz

BaddAss Low Frequency 1000w Ballast
Operating Frequency: 100 Hz

heres the super steallth-digital
+ BULLETPROOF SPACE-AGE ELECTRONICS AND STEALTH TECHNOLOGY GIVE YOU PEACE OF MIND

- Premium Electronics Provide You Unmatched Reliability, Function & Efficiency for Easier, More Effective Lighting
· Your Home and Garden are Safer Because Your New Ballast Has Internal Heat Shielding and Radio Frequency Shielding
· You Get Flawless Performance Backed by an Unconditional Bumper to Bumper 7 Year Warranty, the Longest in the Industry
· You Save Money on Bulbs and Have More Flexibility Because Your New Ballast Powers Metal Halide and High Pressure Sodium Bulbs
· You Save Money Because You Generate More Light and Less Heat & You Customize How Much Light Your Plants Get, Which Means Bigger Yields With Lower Costs
· You Eliminate Noise, Heat, Risk, Security Breaches, Electricity Waste, Excess Bulb Costs
· You Get Portability, Security & Maximum Lighting Benefits
NOW YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO PUT THE BEST DIGITAL BALLASTS TO WORK FOR YOU
Your indoor hydroponics garden has to have plenty of light and the right kind of light, or your plants can't give you the massive yields you demand.
Until now, your choices for indoor garden lighting have been magnetic core/coil ballasts or first generation digital ballasts. You've seen that both these approaches have drawbacks, but the good news is there's finally an all-new type of digital ballast that gives you bigger yields with less heat and lower cost.
But before we talk about the best ballast you'll ever use, let's consider how ballasts for indoor gardens have evolved over time, recalling that growers have long complained about the excess size, noise, weight, heat, security risks, fire danger, lack of portability and numerous inefficient functional problems of magnetic core/coil ballasts.
Growers like you have long realized that their ballasts are costing too much money, just to remove the heat these ballasts create, and that's just the beginning of the problems.
Yes, these ballasts have two other serious problems they cause you. One is they are very limited in what they can possibly do for you. They only power a Metal Halide or a High Pressure Sodium bulb, and they only power one specific bulb wattage. This means they are often bothersome and costly to operate.
The other problem is these early-design ballasts generate security problems and home problems because they produce strong radio frequency waves (RF) that interfere with your computers, phones and appliances while also being detectable outside your home. Speaking of outside detection, another problem of these outdated ballasts is that when they switch on, they generate a characteristic electrical spike that is of great interest to electricity companies and others.

 

[Snagglepuss]

I want one with a usb connector for my pc,that will tell you the lumen loss and when to change the bulb..You reading this manufacturers???????

 

[Stay Puft]

My 2 cents,
Those waveforms look like marketing BS to me. I have been a support technician for EMC compliance testing in the past. (I am not a design engineer)
I notice the waveforms do not mention operating conditions and do not show amplitude scale. It should be noted that the fundamental frequency is NOT the only concern when trying to reduce radiated emmisions. In order to reduce emisions, it is important to keep the rise times to a minimum. (No square waves) Looking at those waveforms, the Lumatek may actually radiate less. The only way you would know for sure is to take them to an EMC test site and check with a spectrum analyzer and a very expensive collection of antennas. (cost several hundred dollars an hour to test) Those waveforms look like a marketing person got a hold of them and kinda twisted the facts. In addition, I believe that operating at such a low switching frequency might adversely affect the performance of the supply. (it usually does in switching supplies- which a digital ballast is). I also have doubts about any company that would actually mark their product "Badass"! LOL

In regards to safety testing. ULor ETL(US) and CE (EU) safety codes/certifications are in fact "harmonized" to one another via IEC standards. Please do not take my word for it... go google "UL CE Harmonized" and read for yourself.
well that is my 2 cents worth anyway.
Regards,
Puft

 

[Bud Bug]

It doesn't take expensive equipment to see whats up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDCX-weZhm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgAjsRlqcfw


If I put a BLuLab Guardian next to it the Guardian starts throwing errors. I was gonna test it with a Nutradip Tri Meter but didn't have one.

 

[Stay Puft]

No offense but...That is no way to test. (When peoples freedom may depend on the results)
In example-How do we know that the radio you were using doesn't have a "susceptibility" problem?
FYI- To pass EMC testing, a product must not only emit RF energy below certain levels ( levels based on Class) but it ALSO must be able to operate in the presence of unwanted RF emissions. (again Levels determined by class) Do you know the EMC test results/classification for that radio?
I forgot to mention that the lower in frequency you operate the more likely the noise will be conducted (through wires) rather than radiated.
3pennies now.

 

[Bud Bug]

No offense but...That is no way to test. (When peoples freedom may depend on the results)

Sorry but there is no difference with this ballast when tested with another digital ballast. I showed this to a AN sales rep and even he was like WTF?

One of the common problems with digital ballasts is fucking up measuring equipment like multi meters (ph/tds/temps) This ballast does the same thing like all the standard digital ballasts. The low frequency thing goes out the window and I don't give a fuck how they spin the sales pitch for the ballast.

Oh and this thing even knocked out the wifi signal to an iPad that was within 5 feet of it. Once the iPad was moved away the signal came back. I didn't have my video camera atm so couldn't video it but will next week.

 

[couchlockd]

Thank You Stay Puft, i really was about to post and ask if any one could validat those wave forms graphs, and even i thought that they looked "Doctored", and i needed to know if they were legit. thanks for the input, very well apreciated.

bud bug, yes i have had C.A.P. greenhouse controllers and co2 monitors/sequencers fuck up royally with lumateks and galaxy. future brite ballasts don't seem to do this, a good way to tell also is put a digital scale next to the ballast. it will jump around the same way they do around a ringin cell phone. future brite ballasts are touted to be "0% RF". but thats here nor thier, all i know is that the digital scales dont dance around like they are on extasy like they do with lumateks or the galaxy.

i have heard that many many other ballasts cause this interference but i cant say cuzz i have no expereince with ballasts other than quantum, future brite, and galaxy.


i have also had another quantum since the really really messed up one that kept blowing bulbs, and it has been running great with a plus rite 600 watt hps, and i have ran SUPER NRG 600 hps in it too just to try it, and it worked.

 

[swordfish]

Until digitals are the standard, then I will wait, mag & coil are 1/3 the price and still the industry standard. I will wait til all the bugs are worked out and they are more efficient. Just like when the LCD tvs came in, I didn't buy 720p, 1080i, no I waited til 1080p, now the have 240hz and 3D! Technology will only get better, as will the pricing, right now the cost/benefits are not there for the digitals.

dude your missing out big time!!! The new ballast are super reliable and are backed with warranty. Your missing out on alot of light, not to mention with the new dimmers all you need are 1k watters. I love digital and electronics