On the race track of genetics, you are still driving an amish buggy, Hempy. And your pony is foundered.
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feminized plant used for making seed
- Thread starter angel4us
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Hi Kopite
Wheat and corn are not very good examples,, wish ppl would stop using them tbh.
Seed Guardians are NOT using feminized seed stocks,, (for wheat, einkorn, or otherwise)... in ANY avenue of horticulture where seed genetics are held in high regards... nor will they ever do so. Feminized genetics are presently used by get-rich-quick farmers.. not by mindful agrarians.
Codex Alimentarius loves feminization,, because it is the easiest and quickest way to reduce the availability of global seed stocks,, while enslaving producers and consumers in the same process.
Unfortunately what we have seen happen in the commercial food industry is now rubbing off onto the commercial cannabis seed industry... wholesale. The cultural value of which is limiting.
Peace
D
Dalaihempy
hoosierdaddy on the race track of genetics you have all ready crashed and burned with no spear car or any spare parts to even get you in the next race think about that a little and did you put your seat belt on safety first rember lol.
cannaboy
Member
Anyone on cloned cows milk? that works but its a shit Idea!! same as codex making seeds that need weed killer to germinate and have terminator genes in CELERY is the first crop to go down the monsanto route as it is a stapel and the 1 plant in pedigree status makes Parstly, celery, celeriac, work over the last 100 years has made this species segergate to the phenos that grow tops better thinner fresher,, (parstly) the same goes for selection towards self blanching capeabillitys and tenderness and flavour. (celery) and the last is THE UGLY ONE AKA Celeriac this is the root of all 3 and is pukka!!! this year you couldn't buy that shit for love nor rockinghorse shit.. next year it will be feminized so that you have to buy specific seeds to suit your needs, where if you learned to mound up put a drainpipe over the stems you get the best of all 3 in 1 seed pack.. you cant do that with the most recent seed creations as the genetic makeup has changed, what you use to get isnt available widely!!!!
Perhaps a different thread should be started to discuss this...but I want to add a bit or two.
First of all, the concept of saving heirloom genetics is as much importance to the mentality of the gardener as it is to the health of the worlds seed genepool. Probably much more important for the mind. Yes, the saving and perpetuating the genes of an heirloom varietal can be of some importance, but the actual worth of the thing is mostly good for the mind of the cannabis gardener.
To truly perpetuate an heirloom (landrace in other terms) strain of cannabis requires open pollination of a group. As in all indigenous groups, open pollination continues the diversity of the group, but it also continues to acclimate the variety to the surrounding climate and conditions. I ask you how are you truly going to perpetuate an heirloom variety of cannabis in the UK? By saving the seeds you want to perpetuate, is the answer.
Now, if the seeds are saved and protected, what harm is done by hybridizing within ALL of the strains available on the planet. What can possibly happen that is detrimental to the gene pool as a whole by mass hybridizing?
Add to the fact that those who actually have the real estate to actually do a proper open pollination of a group of indigenous plants is not actually perpetuating the variety, but actually genetically changing it. Epigenetic responses and drift will change that variety into something that is acclimated to the climate and conditions you have forced it into. Now, who is more to blame for messing with an indigenous variety? -the hybrid maker or the open pollinator?
I personally would not lose any sleep over the total loss of the wild hemp that grows in the US. It usually won't get you very high, has very little aesthetic or medicinal value, and can pollute other varietals in the field.
Some would argue that this strain should be preserved. So, they take it to the UK and start growing it, using mass pollination in an attempt to perpetuate this line. But, in a decade or so, this plant would not only be different in physical attributes, but under the microscope as well.
Now, if they simply save enough the seeds of the line, it is perpetuated.
The hobby grower and breeder are NOT going to do any damage to any so called heirloom varieties genepool no matter what they do with cannabis.
Talking about genetic engineering is another topic all together, and has far more implications than what we are talking about here. It really isn't even pertinent to the discussion.
The feminizing of a plant is a natural event. All we are doing is manipulating what is there already to work with naturally. When we chemically force silver ions into a plant to block ethylene reception using CS or STS, it is nothing more than the plant does on it's own when it is responding to a stress. It blocks these receptions within itself using mechanisms that do precisely what the silver ions do that we introduce. We are not genetically modifying the plant in any shape, form, or fashion by introducing silver ions to force the intersex trait to express itself.
First of all, the concept of saving heirloom genetics is as much importance to the mentality of the gardener as it is to the health of the worlds seed genepool. Probably much more important for the mind. Yes, the saving and perpetuating the genes of an heirloom varietal can be of some importance, but the actual worth of the thing is mostly good for the mind of the cannabis gardener.
To truly perpetuate an heirloom (landrace in other terms) strain of cannabis requires open pollination of a group. As in all indigenous groups, open pollination continues the diversity of the group, but it also continues to acclimate the variety to the surrounding climate and conditions. I ask you how are you truly going to perpetuate an heirloom variety of cannabis in the UK? By saving the seeds you want to perpetuate, is the answer.
Now, if the seeds are saved and protected, what harm is done by hybridizing within ALL of the strains available on the planet. What can possibly happen that is detrimental to the gene pool as a whole by mass hybridizing?
Add to the fact that those who actually have the real estate to actually do a proper open pollination of a group of indigenous plants is not actually perpetuating the variety, but actually genetically changing it. Epigenetic responses and drift will change that variety into something that is acclimated to the climate and conditions you have forced it into. Now, who is more to blame for messing with an indigenous variety? -the hybrid maker or the open pollinator?
I personally would not lose any sleep over the total loss of the wild hemp that grows in the US. It usually won't get you very high, has very little aesthetic or medicinal value, and can pollute other varietals in the field.
Some would argue that this strain should be preserved. So, they take it to the UK and start growing it, using mass pollination in an attempt to perpetuate this line. But, in a decade or so, this plant would not only be different in physical attributes, but under the microscope as well.
Now, if they simply save enough the seeds of the line, it is perpetuated.
The hobby grower and breeder are NOT going to do any damage to any so called heirloom varieties genepool no matter what they do with cannabis.
Talking about genetic engineering is another topic all together, and has far more implications than what we are talking about here. It really isn't even pertinent to the discussion.
The feminizing of a plant is a natural event. All we are doing is manipulating what is there already to work with naturally. When we chemically force silver ions into a plant to block ethylene reception using CS or STS, it is nothing more than the plant does on it's own when it is responding to a stress. It blocks these receptions within itself using mechanisms that do precisely what the silver ions do that we introduce. We are not genetically modifying the plant in any shape, form, or fashion by introducing silver ions to force the intersex trait to express itself.
I thort about your advise...and weighed it to be quite lacking.
lol...you are a funny man, hempy.
Are you really Richard Cranium incognito?
hooz,,,did you just ask hempy if he was me incognito,,,?
Simple question...
Who else used a female seedline for breeding? (only answer if you did)
We did,, twice,, and their must be others.. and we'd like to hear from those that have please.
Less paper talk,, (like i could quote ya some heavy papers if i dug them out of the boxes) ,, Jack n Jill might (figuratively) roger like rabbits on the way up the hill,, but that dont mean they got a daughter (sein)
What we (i n i at least) are looking for here is actual feminized plants used in breeding, and the photos.
Otherwise stush (that means stfu if you didnt do it, you folks really arent adding anything constructive here that hasn't already been voiced 100 times on other threads) << all sentiment with peacefullness, respect n praises n awareness in mind! nah hating,, we dont got the answers yet
Many Thanks to everyone that threw in 2stalks
Peace n love!
Who else used a female seedline for breeding? (only answer if you did)
We did,, twice,, and their must be others.. and we'd like to hear from those that have please.
Less paper talk,, (like i could quote ya some heavy papers if i dug them out of the boxes) ,, Jack n Jill might (figuratively) roger like rabbits on the way up the hill,, but that dont mean they got a daughter (sein)
What we (i n i at least) are looking for here is actual feminized plants used in breeding, and the photos.
Otherwise stush (that means stfu if you didnt do it, you folks really arent adding anything constructive here that hasn't already been voiced 100 times on other threads) << all sentiment with peacefullness, respect n praises n awareness in mind! nah hating,, we dont got the answers yet
Many Thanks to everyone that threw in 2stalks
Peace n love!
Naw, I was asking if she were in fact Richard Cranium. -they call ol' Richard; "Dick Head" for short....
Doc, I fail to see how pictures are going to help much. Perhaps proof that some sort of voodoo magic spell has not mutated them to a point of nonrecognition? And how constructive is it to just sit back and STFU? Especially in light of the fact that each time some reason backed with science hits the table, we see some wank come in and shit right on the table beside it. I think shit stinks, and when it is brought to the table it needs to be addressed early and often. And repeated if need be.
I was curious to hear any response from you on my take concerning the preservation of an heirloom cannabis strain.
cannaboy
Member
I don't think that you will sucsessfully keep a feminized mother for too long because the daylength will eventually stress the fuck out of it.. I have a critical mother in feminized thats about a year or more old and been around more blocks than a backstreet hustler.. but it likes to spag out if the photoperiod isn't constant..
Hoosier.. I wanna see dope grown,, fem x reg... not talking about X n Y why why!
(no offenses,, i value your contributions , as all in this thread,, mindfull discussion makes congnative changes all round! I'd just like the bread n butter,, not empirical driven dogma from the schools of academia (I n I sat in their halls,, and did answered their papers before,, often at the highest level,, and wasnt all that impressed with what i saw,, it was all spoon fed, she said, so he has to say type stuff). Dont wash with me... i wanna see hear,, (smoke perhaps),, the results of fem. x reg. lines,, not hearsay,, oh this could happen if you jizz on it stuff. That is tosh where i'm at (polite word for it mate). None of which is aimed at you... just answering thread dude. (peace n ganja)
Cannaboy we hear ya,,, Main reason we never realeased the Painted Lady is because we always had dubious doubts about ANY fem. clone in breeding from the start... let alone that Critcal line... experimental example in practise.. just we had the insight to do it before others did (if they did).
We'll have to see how the progeny do over yonder,, plenty fields n water,, moon cycles and statispheres between them.
Jah bless
(no offenses,, i value your contributions , as all in this thread,, mindfull discussion makes congnative changes all round! I'd just like the bread n butter,, not empirical driven dogma from the schools of academia (I n I sat in their halls,, and did answered their papers before,, often at the highest level,, and wasnt all that impressed with what i saw,, it was all spoon fed, she said, so he has to say type stuff). Dont wash with me... i wanna see hear,, (smoke perhaps),, the results of fem. x reg. lines,, not hearsay,, oh this could happen if you jizz on it stuff. That is tosh where i'm at (polite word for it mate). None of which is aimed at you... just answering thread dude. (peace n ganja)
Cannaboy we hear ya,,,
Main reason we never realeased the Painted Lady is because we always had dubious doubts about ANY fem. clone in breeding from the start... let alone that Critcal line... experimental example in practise.. just we had the insight to do it before others did (if they did). We'll have to see how the progeny do over yonder,, plenty fields n water,, moon cycles and statispheres between them.
Jah bless
the "overall" strategy is to firstly to develop a population ..this will be the primary source of tissue to isolate DNA or protein from.......later breeders [and rick] can increese numbers and start "mapping population",,,, segregating for the target traits and molecular markers begins..yeehaa .
there are many types of seedlines,,,"every seed is not made equal" lol,,,,,,,,,backcross populations are developed by crossing the F1 with one of the two parents used in the initial cross.... the major drawback with exclusivly growing F2 or backcross populations is that them populations are not eternal lines!!!.....your source of tissue to isolate DNA or protein will be exhausted at some point in time!!!!!!! ....you then would have to begin mapping again in another population.....imo that would just be vicious cycle!!,,,,an i hate vicious cycles!!.....populations of recombinant "InbredLines" can be a powerful solution to this problem..... recombinant "inbred lines"...or... "pure lines" are developed by single-seed selections from individual plants of an F2 population!!!...
evoloution is acoplished by organisms rearranging genetic material to survive in environments that confront them...
in 1992 John H. Holland published: "Adaptation in Natural and Artificial Systems: An Introductory Analysis with Applications to Biology, Control and Artificial Intelligence",,,,,,,,,,,,Holland is is the farther of genetic algorithms!!,,,,,the book he wrote in 1992 "Adaptation in Natural and Artificial Systems" is the book that initiated the "EA" field of study!!!
*EA = Evolutionary Algorithm
backcrossing or using 2 hybrids [not putbreed] to make "socalled" F1`s is currently the main tech used to make the bulk of seeds in the canna seed market today,,,
but i think WE can show everyone a better way
in "my selection" ,,,,,,, i evaluate individuals from all "available" "current" populations............. once evaluated, according to their penlized fitness values. they will be incorperated apropreatly .....
nondominated individuals continue outside of the genetic equation and are candidae solutions that may be stored in our "Evolutionary Algorithm"....
below is the basic method i am proposing,,,,
i call it "ricks n-dimondo idea"
firstly you need to understand that the range of conditions or resource levels and densities of other species allowing the survival, growth and reproduction of an organism or species.., each condition, resource or other species is seen as a dimension, the niche is an n-dimensional hypervolume........a multiobjective genetic algorithm incorperates every n-dimention,,,,,the algorithm is coupled with discrete event simulation this creates n-dimentions and its solutions present the compromise between system reliability and cost..
^^^^ first you need to understand this^^^ this is the basic concept of my dimondo idea^^^^
the main understanding behind this idea is::::::::"The Characterization Of System Reliability When Handling Redundancy Allocation Problems",,,,,,,,
your gona need to understand : repairable series-parallel systems comprised of components subjected to corrective maintenance actions with failure-repair cycles modeled by renewal processes where "multiobjective optimization" is applied..........
this is the plan^^^^^^^^^
"increasing the number of redundancies not only enlarges system reliability but also its associated costs..........!!!!!!!!"
this is the outline,,,,^^^^
there are many types of seedlines,,,"every seed is not made equal" lol,,,,,,,,,backcross populations are developed by crossing the F1 with one of the two parents used in the initial cross.... the major drawback with exclusivly growing F2 or backcross populations is that them populations are not eternal lines!!!.....your source of tissue to isolate DNA or protein will be exhausted at some point in time!!!!!!! ....you then would have to begin mapping again in another population.....imo that would just be vicious cycle!!,,,,an i hate vicious cycles!!
.....populations of recombinant "InbredLines" can be a powerful solution to this problem..... recombinant "inbred lines"...or... "pure lines" are developed by single-seed selections from individual plants of an F2 population!!!...evoloution is acoplished by organisms rearranging genetic material to survive in environments that confront them...
in 1992 John H. Holland published: "Adaptation in Natural and Artificial Systems: An Introductory Analysis with Applications to Biology, Control and Artificial Intelligence",,,,,,,,,,,,Holland is is the farther of genetic algorithms!!,,,,,the book he wrote in 1992 "Adaptation in Natural and Artificial Systems" is the book that initiated the "EA" field of study!!!
*EA = Evolutionary Algorithm
backcrossing or using 2 hybrids [not putbreed] to make "socalled" F1`s is currently the main tech used to make the bulk of seeds in the canna seed market today,,,
but i think WE can show everyone a better way
in "my selection" ,,,,,,, i evaluate individuals from all "available" "current" populations............. once evaluated, according to their penlized fitness values. they will be incorperated apropreatly .....
nondominated individuals continue outside of the genetic equation and are candidae solutions that may be stored in our "Evolutionary Algorithm"....
below is the basic method i am proposing
,,,,i call it "ricks n-dimondo idea"
firstly you need to understand that the range of conditions or resource levels and densities of other species allowing the survival, growth and reproduction of an organism or species.., each condition, resource or other species is seen as a dimension, the niche is an n-dimensional hypervolume........a multiobjective genetic algorithm incorperates every n-dimention,,,,,the algorithm is coupled with discrete event simulation this creates n-dimentions and its solutions present the compromise between system reliability and cost..
^^^^ first you need to understand this^^^ this is the basic concept of my dimondo idea
^^^^the main understanding behind this idea is::::::::"The Characterization Of System Reliability When Handling Redundancy Allocation Problems",,,,,,,,
your gona need to understand : repairable series-parallel systems comprised of components subjected to corrective maintenance actions with failure-repair cycles modeled by renewal processes where "multiobjective optimization" is applied..........
this is the plan^^^^^^^^^
"increasing the number of redundancies not only enlarges system reliability but also its associated costs..........!!!!!!!!"
this is the outline,,,,^^^^
Now I'm gonna read the rest.. i just love that ^^^ hope (and love), an a positive outlook on life is all anyone needs to survive!!! it's generic.. peace man!
@doc,,,in [.1957] G. E. Hutchinson defined the niche concept formally,,,, one could describe the activity range along every dimension of the environment.... physical and chemical factors such as temperature, humidity, salinity, and oxygen concentration, and biological factors such as prey species and resting background against which an individual may escape dection by predators, could be determined. each of these dimensions could be thought of as one of n-dimensions in space......
visualizing a space with more than three dimensions is difficult, since the concept of the n-dimensional niche is an abstraction. we may, however, deal with multi-dimensional concepts mathmatically and statiscally, depicking their essense by physical or graphical representations in three or fewer dimensions.
Ricklefs [1996] notes..."a graph relating biological activity to a single environmental gradient represents the distribution of a species' activity along one niche dimension. The level of activity, whether oxygen metabolism as a function of temperature or consumption rate as function of prey size, conveys the ability of an individual to exploit resources in a particular part of the niche space and, conversely, the degree to which the environment can support the population of that species. in two dimensions the individuals niche may be depicted as a hill, with contours representing the various levels of biological activity. in three dimensions, we must think of a cloud in space whose density conveys niche utilization. beyond three the mind boggles."
Carl Sagan 4th Dimension Explanation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KT4M7kiSw&feature=related
Here you go again Rick
you popup at the funniest of times,,,,im onto you
oh doc,,,"hypervolume" ,,,hypervolume is like a tesseract,,,checkout what a teseract is in comparison to a cube,,a tesseract is a hypervolume of a cube,,,
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cannaboy
Member
yeah man cubing works like in 1 cycle so to ge a spicies containing a tesseract of genes or a f1 Pollyhybrid in the middle of the segregation displaying all the varience of say
SK#1xNL#5 x G13xhaze c wouldnt be hard. As all the regular stock bread true you will be able to observe the distinctive features on indervidual plants to catagorize them into what looks like what then sub species then class and breed 4 ways appart to lock a trait in on neach of the lines.. This is how it has worked for ALL the genetics we can buy today!!! It is the stacking of alle chromosones that creats pollidity and with this comes vigour and spastication (triplods) we can then breed to segregate the line to make it show more or less of the rest of the population (dumping the mass) then open pollination
But if you wanna make a fancey spider web and do algibra then thats cool with me mate,,
SK#1xNL#5 x G13xhaze c wouldnt be hard. As all the regular stock bread true you will be able to observe the distinctive features on indervidual plants to catagorize them into what looks like what then sub species then class and breed 4 ways appart to lock a trait in on neach of the lines.. This is how it has worked for ALL the genetics we can buy today!!! It is the stacking of alle chromosones that creats pollidity and with this comes vigour and spastication (triplods) we can then breed to segregate the line to make it show more or less of the rest of the population (dumping the mass) then open pollination
But if you wanna make a fancey spider web and do algibra then thats cool with me mate,,
D
Dalaihempy
In short you have no real research on this topic done yet by any one the plants have been realest into the market place they have been spreed all over the world and are being grown and used in breeding projects by many in all corners of the world so pandors box is open even if research was done and proven to be a big negative its to late.
Fem seeds express many vereations in there seed the difference being to normal f1 seed is the f1 seed are a lot more healthy as they also have the male part added and there is research that shows what importance males bring to the party.
No research on any fem seeds or there methods on the plant but research has been done on GA and on its affect on cannabis and what did it show well it lowers the THC in the species so i wounder what real research will show in time.
Some of you amaze me on one hand you talk about the importance of open pollination then you say no male is fine to.
For years people have selected the best plants to breed with each year not open pollination but the plants were pure true breeding and in veg growing people pic the best each year to use as seed for the next seasons grow i have smoked and seen plants that have been inbreed for decades and they were amazing you think most growers are going to use 2 males or more on a selected fem think agine they if growing stable or pure lines will select the strongest healthiest plants to make seed with i wounder what some of you are saying at times you say open pollination is a must then you say fem seeds not using a male is the future very od.
By the way hoosierdaddy when are you going to grow up and relies your red mojo messages means as much to most in this forum as you do to us in every day life.
Fem seeds express many vereations in there seed the difference being to normal f1 seed is the f1 seed are a lot more healthy as they also have the male part added and there is research that shows what importance males bring to the party.
No research on any fem seeds or there methods on the plant but research has been done on GA and on its affect on cannabis and what did it show well it lowers the THC in the species so i wounder what real research will show in time.
Some of you amaze me on one hand you talk about the importance of open pollination then you say no male is fine to.
For years people have selected the best plants to breed with each year not open pollination but the plants were pure true breeding and in veg growing people pic the best each year to use as seed for the next seasons grow i have smoked and seen plants that have been inbreed for decades and they were amazing you think most growers are going to use 2 males or more on a selected fem think agine they if growing stable or pure lines will select the strongest healthiest plants to make seed with i wounder what some of you are saying at times you say open pollination is a must then you say fem seeds not using a male is the future very od.
By the way hoosierdaddy when are you going to grow up and relies your red mojo messages means as much to most in this forum as you do to us in every day life.
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