I could use some input on my grow

[2Lazy]

I'm asking more what to expect next. I know how it is to come into someone's thread who is asking for advice and having that advice skoffed at. I'm definitely not trying to do that. Most of the advice is well received by myself and I've been one step ahead thus far.

If you get the flow, I've gone from one thing to another with these blue mystic. What should I expect now?

Again... This isn't my entire garden. It is JUST the Blue Mystics. The other 2/3rds of my garden is doing just dandy with the additives. I think it might be because the Mystics are running a little faster than the Lemon Skunk and when I've been dialing nutrients in response to issues I've actually been right on with the other plants before the problem arises.

Thanks for the info about the pH in the coco being too low locking out Mg. I disagree with Canna that they include enough Mg in their mix. I know that myself and a few other growers do need a little extra magnesium throughout the life of the plant. I was recently reading about Calcium Sulfates forming in the media, and I used some epsom salt solution on the sickest plant which I think might be a potential source for the lock up of calcium as well. I don't have brown spots or signs of calcium deficiency... that's for sure.

I don't think my pH was too low though. I was watering at 5.7ph about 5 times per week when the problems started. When it all began I responded by trying to dial my nutrients and I did a few waterings at 6.0 (which is when the phosphate deficiency started). I dropped my pH back down to around 5.8, and have been riding that for a while. The pH swing was likely in the 5.4 to 5.5 range, but I only did two waterings like that and they were a week or so apart. Stupid pH meter batteries.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i like additives, but i have come to learn that they are mainly effective when everything is dialed in for that extra bit of millage. but plants that are less then perfectly healthy will not benefit from adding additives, yes canna zym or similar does no harm, same with bioboost. but epsom salts cal mag pk 13 /14 and god knows what else is too much for plants that are not at optimal nutrient uptake mode. on top of that you don't know how some of these additives will react to the canna products. canna a and b is a complete flowering fert for coco and can be used to get 500 gram per 600 watts easy with not one additive. so until you get some thing like that from just a and b forget pk 13/14. if you feel you have to then add cal mag no more then 1 watering per 2 weeks. too much pk has screwed up many a garden down to a 0.3 to 0.4 gpw. it's one better too little then too much and never on plats that are not perfectly healthy.

anyway good luck man.

 

[2Lazy]

i like additives, but i have come to learn that they are mainly effective when everything is dialed in for that extra bit of millage. but plants that are less then perfectly healthy will not benefit from adding additives, yes canna zym or similar does no harm, same with bioboost. but epsom salts cal mag pk 13 /14 and god knows what else is too much for plants that are not at optimal nutrient uptake mode. on top of that you don't know how some of these additives will react to the canna products. canna a and b is a complete flowering fert for coco and can be used to get 500 gram per 600 watts easy with not one additive. so until you get some thing like that from just a and b forget pk 13/14. if you feel you have to then add cal mag no more then 1 watering per 2 weeks. too much pk has screwed up many a garden down to a 0.3 to 0.4 gpw. it's one better too little then too much and never on plats that are not perfectly healthy.

anyway good luck man.

This is exactly the mentality I need to have.

Taking it to heart too.

PK 13/14 is done with. I do admit that I still plant on giving the healthy plants a week 6ish dose of Gravity. 0.25ml per gallon, only twice, and with no nutrients plus extremely reduced light levels (400w bulb from 36"). I have had great results using this product on my healthy plants in the past, just needs to be used correctly. Then I run real light nutrients (2ml per gallon or so), probably a fulvic acid, and that BioBoost up till the end. I also run 15ml per gallon of the Honey ES alternating for 4 feedings right before I flush and harvest.

I hate looking at my old formula now, there were like 7 ingredients at one point, and they looked so good during veg...

Nutrient burn, was the last thing to appear. I had one deficiency after another leading up to that point. Handling the deficiencies was tough because they kept jumping. Potassium showed with Magnesium, and I really only treated the potassium problem, which showed a very uniform magnesium lockout. I raised the pH a bit, magnesium still a problem though, and now phosphorus too. So I start 4ml/gallon PK 13/14 on alternate feedings; drop the pH to 5.7, and I'm running like 30ml per gallon on the Huvega and the Humega to treat the magnesium shortage also. All I'm thinking are, these are some hungry plants. After the 4th and last drain to waste feeding of the product, which had managed to clear up the phosphate shortage but was still struggling with the Mg, then I get the signs of over-watering and a touch of nutrient burn now that I'm 35 days in to flowering.

 

[2Lazy]

HELP!!!

HELP!!!

Okay, someone diagnose this so I can treat it. This is what I've been seeing the entire grow. Now it's starting on the healthy plants even at lower feedings as suggested.

Guys, I'm starting to think less nutes is not the answer if this is the result.

 

[Calimed]

Looks like a mag def. Have you tested the ph of the runoff water?

 

[2Lazy]

I hear the run off pH isn't a good determiner for the media pH. Canna recommends using a soil test kit. I will be picking one up early next week when I get the chance.

5.7 to 5.8 is what has been used recently and I haven't deviated lower than 5.4 or higher than 6.0... so I don't think it could be that far out of whak. These Magnesium issues started at the beginning of flowering, and I haven't gotten ahead of it yet.

I'm thinking the Mag deficiency is a result of the Cal toxicity. I'm just having a hard time with this because ALL of my plants are experiencing this Mag deficiency in one form or another at this point.

Do you guys think a Mag supplement like Sea Mag from Humboldt Nutrients might be appropriate in this situation?

 

[gaiusmarius]

i would imagine you are seeing the results of the lack of compatibility of some of the products you are using. the plants take a few days to get over wrong treatment and you can only judge the rightness of what you are doing by looking at the new healthy growth and how it's reacting.

just to be sure, you could spray your cal mag, at least that way it doesn't add to the problems in the soil. for some reason i never once have used any cal mag additive, maybe my water has enough, not sure. but definitely don't put any more in the coco.

i will just say, if they were my plants i would stand them in the bath tub and flush the fuck out of each and every one with plain ph 5.9 water at least double the pot volume of water through each plant. once done pour 1 litre of nutrient solution with just a and b with maybe some rhizotonic and canna zym, no boost this time in each pot, right after the flush has finished dripping through.

those black looking leaves i have seen when things are over ferted. too much of a nutrient can cause it to stop being up taken making it look like a deficiency when in fact its an over dose.

coco will not suffer from the water, from then on just use a and b every watering. even saturated with water, as long as it's not standing in a puddle coco still has 30% air in it.

keep in mind i have been growing with coco since the stuff was brought on the market by canna.

 

[OMountainMix]

That third picture is the kind of thing I saw when we used Dynagrow and the bloom had chunks in it and it killed the grape krush. I think a good flush would be in order. Then really think hard about your nutrient mix and make sure you're not overdoing it before adding stuff in. I agree that some of your nutrients could be incompatible with one another.

 

[2Lazy]

i would imagine you are seeing the results of the lack of compatibility of some of the products you are using. the plants take a few days to get over wrong treatment and you can only judge the rightness of what you are doing by looking at the new healthy growth and how it's reacting.

Except these plants have been healthy using these additives up until I started following your advice and cutting them out.

The other plants have been pissed since the first week of flowering, but these leaves come from plants that I've just changed the feeding habits on based on your advice to cut out the additives.

So what you're trying to tell me is that I used additives and had a mostly healthy garden with some issues. I changed out the additives and 4 days later I now see these for certain deficiencies.

And then you guys are telling me my stuff is incompatible. All I'm using right now is Canna Coco A&B and the BioBoost. When I was using the incompatible stuff the plants pictured were 100% golden (aside from a very light P- deficiency prior to the pk boost).

So, I think yeah, a flush might be in order, but I'm going back with the additives. I at least had some healthy plants, with this current regiment it looks to ruin the rest of my crop. I have cut it back to just the coco A&B with the boost on the Blue Mystic, but I'm a good 5 days from having the media at a point where I can flush without serious damage. My plants are still recovering from a prior over watering, as I mentioned, and I need to give them time to rebound.

I'm cool, guys. Thanks for you support.

 

[gaiusmarius]

and why did you change the treatment of the plants you consider to be healthy? i bet you didn't do a flush anyway, no plants in coco would ever look worse after a flush and plain a and b at medium dose, not unless they were already well on the way to problems. what do you think canna were doing when they made those nutes? you think they forgot some thing? you think they make stuff that makes your plants look worse when you use it the way it's made to be used? that's ridiculous. the advise you were given is sound, it's your understanding of coco that is faulty. but go ahead do as you please, coco is idiot proof and you will still get some kind of harvest i'm sure.

 

[rocky5]

well said.

 

[EddieShoestring]

2Lazy-you're starting to drive us round the bend-aaaarrrggghhhhhh

poor Gaius-i got to say in 15years online Gaius is possibly the most eminently reasonable and patient person that i've come across. I mean it. You don't think that we've haven't seen this on innumerable occasions in the past? An inexperienced grower (yeah 6runs pretty much makes you a newb) chucking God knows what at his plants-cooking them and then argueing the toss about just about everything with a knowledge base of close to zero? Go back through the coir forum-do a search for 'massive overdose of calmag'-
just by looking at either the pics OR your feed schedule it is OBVIOUS what you've done

if you want to be a good grower what you have to do is find others who are better or more experienced than you and either copy them and /or do what they say. It is that simple....

 

[STUPPA]

2 lazy you said in your first post you are using high quality tap water ,what does this mean ? what is the ph and ec of your water ?.

 

[crtoker]

2lazy- Gaius advice seems sound to me also. Particularly the flush the plants with plenty of water in the shower room. I notice that you are using plastic runoff collection trays under each individual plant. My assumption is that you let runoff water collect in those trays until reabsorbed into the plant. If this is correct then I believe that you are actually reaccumulating the flushed salts back into the plants and that might be contribution to the problem with some of the genetics.

I have two plants in 2 gallon smartpots using the same type bottom tray as in your photos. One is a indica and one a sativa. The indica is much more prone to salt build up for some reason and I have tested the runoff that went as high as 3.4 EC when the feed going in was only 1.4 EC. That was time for a major flush as Gaius suggests and it worked out very nicely. I would feed to runoff but, let the nutes/runoff get reabsorbed. So not really drain to waste nor recirc. I feed both plants the same canna A+B, Rhizotonic, and Cannazym as recommended by Canna. Never have added any cal/mag product as my tapwater seems adequate. Occasionally a slight addition of silica blast during veg. these two plants are 7 months old and are being used as moms. They were lst'd and are healthy using only cfl's/. The plants are about 4-5 feet tall and bushy as well.

I think a very generous water only flush and back to basic Canna feed program would do the trick for your ladies. Good luck bro. Thanks too for the pics.

Peace,

crtoker

 

[2Lazy]

2lazy- Gaius advice seems sound to me also. Particularly the flush the plants with plenty of water in the shower room. I notice that you are using plastic runoff collection trays under each individual plant. My assumption is that you let runoff water collect in those trays until reabsorbed into the plant. If this is correct then I believe that you are actually reaccumulating the flushed salts back into the plants and that might be contribution to the problem with some of the genetics.
crtoker

If you read my first post you'd see that I don't usually water with run off, I did recently though, twice in total. When I do water with run off I do some plant swapping and I do remove the water from the tray. Great advice though crtoker on the EC of the media being higher than the EC of the solution. I'm sure the EC of my media is too high, so I'll run some plain water in my sick plants, full strength on the healthy ones, and hope for the best.

Still though, no one has appeased my fears about the over watering damage. I'm trying to let the plants bounce back from that and let the root zone to recover before drowning them again, but everyone seems gung ho with the whole flushing them thing. As though what I've typed doesn't matter.

My tap water has an EC of around 0.2-0.3 and pH balances at 7.1 to 7.2. My recent water report stated the calcium levels to be around 220ppm.

@EddieShoestring: That post was nothing but name-calling. First of all, take 1/2 an effing second to look at the pictures on the last page. If you think that's nutrient burn then I don't know what to tell you. You're an idiot bro, just move along. I know I've done this to my plants, but I suppose it's too much to ask what I should do now? Right?

This is a DEFICIENCY thread. NOT NUTRIENT BURN!!! I am so tried being treated like I'm some stupid shit that runs all his stuff without knowing why. Huvega is a Magnesium and micro supplement. Simple. It's from Organicare and it's OMRI certified. Humega is a humic acid and is OMRI certified. The Cal-Mag isn't, but Cal-plex is and I'd been using that during veg. Deuce-Deuce is organic as well.

I'm not dropping horrible chemicals, at outrageous rates. This isn't Advanced Nutrients and their 15 bottles. It's REALLY simple shit any grower should be able to get their head around. Macro-nutrients, micro-nutrients, segregated calcium and magnesium supplements, humics, root zone organics, bloom supplements. To claim I don't know jack about my nutrients is more than outright false, it's outraging.

I ran too much Calcium with tap water. I spelled it out for you all, and I asked what I should do to combat my deficiencies and you guys suggest LESS nutrients. I figured this is what I was going to hear so I started running less nutrients. I don't want my healthy plants to get sick, so I put them on this new feeding schedule hoping to anticipate the problems. Unfortunately, after just 3 days, it is clear that less nutrients is not the answer, especially when it comes to my magnesium supplement which I've been told to cut out completely. Not anyone's fault, I know you're not in my grow room and I don't hold you guys responsible at all. I have already taken responsibility for my own actions in an early post, and according to you I suppose I should just allow them to suffer.

My reaction to your first post gaius:

"I'm definitely backing off on the huvega. I've stopped with the PK 13/14, but I am going to keep running the bioboost because it has no chem fertilizers.

Take a look at them as of today, some good and some bad and the garden as a whole. Do you really think the outlook is that bleak? I'm going back to basics, hopefully that'll work..."

And this is me saying your advice was a load of crap??? This is me saying I know better??? WTF!!! Are we even in the same thread? I've been nothing but thankful for the advice I've been given... It's not my fault you gave advice for nutrient burn in a nutrient deficiency thread.

In regards to what CANNA says, they say for me to be running 10ml per gallon at this point in my grow. Do I think they left something out? YES! Silicon namely. But don't forget about all the other fun micro-nutrients and long carbon chain fulvics. Also, not all tap water is equal and they PURPOSEFULLY leave stuff out expecting the impurities in the water to balance out their nutrient line. I know this because I've been a member of their site for a year now and have read everything they publish.

So rather than running a little A&B, I need to be running full strength A&B according to Canna. This is what I did today, and what I'm going to continue to do on my healthy plants until I think it's time to dial them back.

Take a step back fella's I'm not here to step on peoples toes, but I say "No more advice" and suddenly the community finds the time to post in my thread without any actual advice. A bunch of yokels who are better suited in the news and opinion forum then actual growing forums. It took me a good day to get any advice at all, but NOW everyone is going to grab their johnson stick and come after me since I've stated not to bother, I know what I'm doing now.

Thanks but no thanks.

Giaus, if you want to shut this thread down then you probably should. I'm not getting the advice I need, and I'm definitely not going to get it now. You might as well just delete for the sake of peace amongst the people. I'm not looking to start an flame war.

 

[buddin_904]

2lazy....it seems as if you arent very appreciatable of peoples "input on your grow"...seen people alot like this lately....its really turning me off from even wasting my time posting suggestions.....

 

[2Lazy]

2lazy....it seems as if you arent very appreciatable of peoples "input on your grow"...seen people alot like this lately....its really turning me off from even wasting my time posting suggestions.....

It's only because I've been asking for help regarding my deficiencies as caused by calcium toxicity and no one has addressed that issue.

I did some nutrient burn myself, and I know how and why it happened. I'm not seeking advice for nutrient burn. I know how to deal with that. Still though, I anticipated the answer I'd get and the answer I've gotten isn't the appropriate solution.

It's the calcium toxicity, magnesium deficiency, and over watering stress I could have used some help with. But thanks for your advice... Er... opinion on human beings in a thread I could use advice on plants in. I suppose this was the appropriate place to set up your soap box...

I have made a point to always say thank you, and that I appreciate the advice and to explain what I've taken away from the poster.

I must be seeing something you aren't.

 

[pokergod]

Looking at your situation reminds me of where I was at one time. One, overwatering coco is tough to do, you should practice lifting each pot, if they are still heavy, don't feed/water. Growing several strains makes it tough to dial in the feed. You have some mostly indica(Blue Mystics) to mostly sativas, each needing different ecs. I feed/feed/plain water. You have to flush weekly to get rid of excess salts or else you will have lockouts. Coco is loaded with potassium, so rarely will you see a difficiency.

Peace

 

[STUPPA]

Looking at your situation reminds me of where I was at one time. One, overwatering coco is tough to do, you should practice lifting each pot, if they are still heavy, don't feed/water. Growing several strains makes it tough to dial in the feed. You have some mostly indica(Blue Mystics) to mostly sativas, each needing different ecs. I feed/feed/plain water. You have to flush weekly to get rid of excess salts or else you will have lockouts. Coco is loaded with potassium, so rarely will you see a difficiency.

Peace

I hear what you are saying about flushing but the problem he has is that his water is full of calcium carbonates , if he continously flushes thru tap water he is adding more and more cal to the root zone this will eventually effect the uptake of potassium and also the carbonates will make the ph rise above 7.5 which will also effect the uptake of other nutrients.

His water is boderline hard/soft with a high ph which is not good quality .He needs to use specific nutes for this as using soft water nutes won't deal with the carbonates or the ph and if he adds large amounts of acid that will cause even more problems. It's the same with hard water nutes ,they will neutralize the carbonates too much and prob give a ph rollercoaster ride.

Get the right nutes and always feed till you get a run off .

 

[EddieShoestring]

Stuppa.His water is boderline hard/soft with a high ph which is not good quality

he's said it was ec0.2/ph7.1-7.2 which looks fine. Not sure about Ca@200ppm-that sounds a little odd.
2Lazy-where is the name calling in my post?There isn't any unlike yours

2Lazy. You're an idiot bro,

I know i shouldn't have posted what i did but reading your posts leaves me tired and emotional

2Lazy. To claim I don't know jack about my nutrients is more than outright false, it's outraging.

why?

eddieS