ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[Hydrosun]

You are off your rocker. I understand being mistrustful of the govt, but you are suggesting that a city govt will legalize the sale and tax of mj under Prop19, and then they will turn around and use those funds for anti-mj LEO operations? I have no love for the elected officials in my locale, but they aren't that stupid (and I have a feeling yours aren't either). Remember, if there is Prop19 revenue, then some type of structure has been established and legalized for the supply, sale and tax of mj. Your politicians want that money, and they don't want it to bust you and your 50 square foot basement.

there are some genuine concerns about the actual effects of this bill passing, but you throwing out the garbage quoted above only serves to weaken your legitimate points.

I am saying exactly that. One of the purposes specifically spelled out is to generate fees and taxes that will among other things pay to enforce the MJ laws. That is what the proposition says, so why wouldn't the locality use the funds as prescribed by the law and arrest those with greater weight or higher square footage?

If they don't enforce the law with the revenue they generate then they loose revenue because as many have said a good grower can get more than personal from 25sq'. So ICmagers will be growing too much sharing with friends, not paying sales taxes, and SMASH door is kicked in. Not by DEA but by the Prop 19 revenue enforcers.

Have you known CA to leave ANY revenue stream untouched? I know your local officials will not be letting me or any other ICmagers get away with bigger gardens, because that means money they lose.

So do you really think they won't go after their competition?

 

[Hydrosun]

Hunt icmaggers huh? ID suspect the only ones getting "hunted down" will be the ones too ignorant or arrogant to start a legitimate business and pay taxes...

How much should the ICmag based home business pay? The same as any other business or some extra large tax?

And if licenses aren't issued to you because you don't have huge amounts of money or the county you live in sucks? Then your home based business is ILLEGAL and you have to move.

Are you saying ALL ICMAGERS who grow outside of the legalized areas are "too ignorant or arrogant to start a legitimate business and pay taxes."

Are you saying that ICMAGERS are not legitimate business people because they have been operating under prohibition?

Just some questions that some unenlightened people like me would like an answer to.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

How much should the ICmag based home business pay? The same as any other business or some extra large tax?

And if licenses aren't issued to you because you don't have huge amounts of money or the county you live in sucks? Then your home based business is ILLEGAL and you have to move.

Are you saying ALL ICMAGERS who grow outside of the legalized areas are "too ignorant or arrogant to start a legitimate business and pay taxes."

Are you saying that ICMAGERS are not legitimate business people because they have been operating under prohibition?

Just some questions that some unenlightened people like me would like an answer to.

Hahahah how can you be a legitimate business owner when your industry is illegal?

I believe cannabis should be taxed like anything else and as I disagree with placing an excise tax on mj, I feel it is inevitable evil that we will have to deal with...

We aren't discussing ALL icmaggers, just the ones in CA. Don't put words in my mouth.

But ID like to think if other icmaggers outside of CA who grow and sell for profi had the chance they would much rather do it legally than face risk and persecution for it.... At least I hope they would

Now please stop putting words in my mouth

 

[someotherguy]

I am saying exactly that. One of the purposes specifically spelled out is to generate fees and taxes that will among other things pay to enforce the MJ laws. That is what the proposition says, so why wouldn't the locality use the funds as prescribed by the law and arrest those with greater weight or higher square footage?

if you have greater weight and square footage
without proper licensing then you are breaking the law,
that's the deal man, follow the rules and you've got
nothing to fear.

If they don't enforce the law with the revenue they generate then they loose revenue because as many have said a good grower can get more than personal from 25sq'. So ICmagers will be growing too much sharing with friends, not paying sales taxes, and SMASH door is kicked in. Not by DEA but by the Prop 19 revenue enforcers.

lol, are you for real? ...do you really believe this shit?

...like i said above, stay within the limits and you
have nothing to worry about and if you want to
grow and make money then pay your fucking
taxes dude!

Have you known CA to leave ANY revenue stream untouched? I know your local officials will not be letting me or any other ICmagers get away with bigger gardens, because that means money they lose.

So do you really think they won't go after their competition?

...God, i can't believe this shit, ...dude, if you want to
compete, you'll need to do it legally, no more makin'
a living as a 'drug dealer', you pay taxes and you'll be
a legitimate business man dealing in a legitimate commodity!

why don't you get that?

peace, SOG

 

[blwd67]

One of the purposes specifically spelled out is to generate fees and taxes that will among other things pay to enforce the MJ laws.

Where, exactly, does it specifically spell this out? It does say a greater amount of state revenue can go to combat violent gangs and criminal organizations, including those who sell cannabis illegally. Why is this a bad thing? If you are compliant with the law, like everything else now, you will be fine. If you want to break the law, like you are now, just be careful. This proposition (as explicitly stated in the title) is meant to regulate and control the cannabis market, not create a free for all environment. That would create new problems without solving any of the old ones. I mean, no shit some of that money will go to busting people who break the law (including cannabis related offenses)... a portion of ALL tax money goes towards law enforcement. Why would cannabis taxes be any different? Why should cannabis taxes be any different?

Please stop saying this money is suposed to go directly towards combating cannabis growers. Its not true; it will go towards all the same things other taxes do now, improving and maintaining our communities (or whatever, but that is a completely different discussion).

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

if you have greater weight and square footage
without proper licensing then you are breaking the law,
that's the deal man, follow the rules and you've got
nothing to fear.


lol, are you for real? ...do you really believe this shit?

...like i said above, stay within the limits and you
have nothing to worry about and if you want to
grow and make money then pay your fucking
taxes dude!


...God, i can't believe this shit, ...dude, if you want to
compete, you'll need to do it legally, no more makin'
a living as a 'drug dealer', you pay taxes and you'll be
a legitimate business man dealing in a legitimate commodity!

why don't you get that?

peace, SOG

Cuz he's just some punkass micro mini dealer slangin his extra at price. Now his people will have more access to better quality and he's afraid. It's overly obvious. The NOs haven't a valid argument so they act as if their speculation will be in effect regardless of how obscure or ridiculous.

If 19 passes Arnold Schwarznegger will eat your babies And Jerry brown will get oral from your GF every night!!!!!

 

[someotherguy]

Cuz he's just some punkass micro mini dealer slangin his extra at price. Now his people will have more access to better quality and he's afraid. It's overly obvious. The NOs haven't a valid argument so they act as if their speculation will be in effect regardless of how obscure or ridiculous.

If 19 passes Arnold Schwarznegger will eat your babies And Jerry brown will get oral from your GF every night!!!!!

ROTFLMAO, ...here come da boogie man!

peace, SOG

 

[Anti]

Are you saying that ICMAGERS are not legitimate business people because they have been operating under prohibition?

Are you paying federal or state income tax on the money you earn growing? Are you reporting every nickel? Are you witholding income tax for the guys who help you trim your harvest? Do you have all of their paperwork, W2, etc? Are you keeping books?

These are all things legitimate businesses have to do.

 

[Hydrosun]

why don't you get that?

peace, SOG

Because they won't issue permits to people in residential areas, or the county will only issue X licenses and I don't get one of the lucky permits. All kinds of reasons why ICmagers may want to keep on doing what they are doing.

Why don't you just recognize everyones right to grow what they want on their own land. If you do that I'll concede that MJ should be taxed like all other flowers sold in the state, and even the weekend gardener who sells at the farmers market should pay the same CA flower tax.

None of this changes the fact that prop 19 specifically calls for enforcement of MJ laws through fees, permits, and taxes associated with prop 19.

So every OZ bought in their stores does mean money to the pigs for the specific purpose of safe guarding their revenue. To safeguard their revenue lots of small CA growers will be jackbooted. But I guess that is OK because after all they could have stayed in 25sq' feet, shouldn't have gotten greedy as you say.

Well I for one don't feel good about anyone facing time over weed and don't take lightly those in CA who have to face the home invasion by the government.

 

[zen_trikester]

How much should the ICmag based home business pay? The same as any other business or some extra large tax?

And if licenses aren't issued to you because you don't have huge amounts of money or the county you live in sucks? Then your home based business is ILLEGAL and you have to move.

Are you saying ALL ICMAGERS who grow outside of the legalized areas are "too ignorant or arrogant to start a legitimate business and pay taxes."

Are you saying that ICMAGERS are not legitimate business people because they have been operating under prohibition?

Just some questions that some unenlightened people like me would like an answer to.

Why are you trying to assimilate all ICMAGERS to the few here who are commercial growers and dealers unwilling to play by the rules? Many commercial growers here are even for this prop because they know it is the right thing for the community as a whole, and they see this as an oppertunity to legitimize their life's work. Many of us here came to learn to grow our own so we could avoid all that bullshit! That is a pretty lame tactic if you are trying to make your personal fight for your illegal business a "championing of the people of ICMAG"! Other than prohibitionists, bible belters, Big Pharma, the DEA, the textiles industry, the plastics industry, the commercial growers, dealers, and street gangs, most everyone else wants this to pass. I don't think all ICMAGERS or even many want to be lumped into that group! I know I sure as hell don't!!

People keep talking about leo out looking for ways to bust people for growing. that is bullshit!!! Cops don't care and are probably relieved to not worry about that kind of shit anymore! They will finally know what the laws are instead of scratching their head and wondering wtf they are supposed to do. They are looking for the guys dealing and pulling pounds yes, but not for the average person who just wants grow, buy and smoke some weed and I bet dollars to cop doughnuts that most here are the latter. Don't try to inspire a community up-rise for your personal cause.

Oh, and yes... people who are running an illegal home based business from their homes are absolutly not legitimate business people. That is the very definition of legitimate, no?

Trike

***edit*** I just realized the above sounds kinda bad coming from a guy with 10 posts but for the record I was here before, left and recently came back. My former handle was 10jed

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

GanjaAl,
Maybe you could take the time to answer my question to you?

My post #1549

-SamS

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

 

[vta]

Because they won't issue permits to people in residential areas,

Last I checked 'resisential' meant areas where people live, raise kids and such. When your talking 'permits' for growing 'commercial' pot...shouldn't a city zone a commercial business in a commercial area? Why would you want that in a 'residential' area?

or the county will only issue X licenses and I don't get one of the lucky permits. All kinds of reasons why ICmagers may want to keep on doing what they are doing.

you or I don't know jack on what any county or city is going to do, how they are going to regulate or how many permits they will give out...your statement is not only 'your fantasy dream' but has absolutely no basis because it hasn't happened yet. Your statement also screams me me me. Just tell us that your against this because of personal reasons. I wish it wasn't true but that is pretty much what your post point to. Hey...I'm not knocking it...just call it like it is.

Why don't you just recognize everyones right to grow what they want on their own land.

You see....it's not our right. Don't believe me? Call your local LEO and just ask...19 does give us the right though. It is really that simple. No really. Sure there are limits...but your LEGALLY allowed to grow.

You want more???? So help another prop get on the ballot...more will come anyway...this is just the 1st...the 1st step. The one where after 70+ years we are giving ourselves back 'some' of our god giving rights.

None of this changes the fact that prop 19 specifically calls for enforcement of MJ laws through fees, permits, and taxes associated with prop 19.

So every OZ bought in their stores does mean money to the pigs for the specific purpose of safe guarding their revenue. To safeguard their revenue lots of small CA growers will be jackbooted. But I guess that is OK because after all they could have stayed in 25sq' feet, shouldn't have gotten greedy as you say.

Well I for one don't feel good about anyone facing time over weed and don't take lightly those in CA who have to face the home invasion by the government.

nice! All in all that shit straight out competes with the best of the best fear mongering propaganda that NIDA comes out with. Almost as good as the fried egg one but close.

I can hear the Mayor at the city council meeting now..."Alright, Marijuana is now legal...lets regulate it and use that money bust pot growers"

I know it sounds stupid but I am so very high right now so please forgive me...

Then someone says "why? It's legal for them to grow."
Mayor says, "Oh but what if someone goes out their 5x5!!!! We need more swat! We need FLIR! We need more cops!"

lol

 

[Hydrosun]

Then someone says "why? It's legal for them to grow."
Mayor says, "Oh but what if someone goes out their 5x5!!!! We need more swat! We need FLIR! We need more cops!"

lol

Then the revenue agent chimes in...

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees
(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspections of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

Like you said the guy can't get a permit for his home garden, but he sure as shit can be jackbooted because someone claims to have seen 30sq' and the authorities have specific language paying them to ENFORCE.

The raids of homes will go up not down.

If you really think that people shouldn't grow in residential neighborhoods, then there isn't much hope for us. This is a harmless plant. So harmless in fact that having the plants is alright, just not more than 25sq'

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Hahhaha hydrosun is comedy.... What won't this guy say to sway voters????

Your making the IRS sound like the DEA....

So why are you really against this? Are you afraid you can't grow enough in a 5x5 for personal use? Or that you can't grow enough to sell?

Just be real. We already think your a clown. Might as well just tell us the truth to why you so fiercly oppose 19....

 

[Hydrosun]

Prop 19 Section 11302 (B)

Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold.

*************

COMMENT: THE IMPLICATIONS OF I.R.C. § 280E IN DENYING ORDINARY AND NECESSARY BUSINESS EXPENSE DEDUCTIONS TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS
Winter, 2003
47 St. Louis L.J. 157
Author

Carrie F. Keller*
Excerpt

I. Introduction

Until quite recently, the tax code took a facially neutral view towards the use of deductions and credits by illegal drug traffickers. However, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Tax Act of 1982 2 introduced section 280E to the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended ("the Code"). Section 280E denies credits and deductions "for any amount paid or incurred during the taxable year in carrying on any trade or business [that] ... consists of trafficking in controlled substances ... ." 3 The language of this provision is applicable only to that portion of the population who choose to earn their livelihood by dealing drugs.

Section 62(a) of the Code defines adjusted gross income as income less certain deductions, including deductions attributable to a taxpayer's trade or business and those permitted under section 162. 4 Section 162 allows deductions for all "ordinary and necessary" expenses incurred in the operation of a taxpayer's business. 5 However, the language of section 280E effectively denies the availability of section 162 business deductions to illegal drug traffickers. Generally, the income tax is not discriminatory as to the nature of income, and the Code imposes a tax on all gross income "from whatever source derived." 6 However, the ultimate effect of section 280E is to impose a higher burden of taxation on a drug trafficker's gross income by denying any deductions the drug trafficking taxpayer would otherwise be allowed to take. 7

Public policy justifications are the basis for the inclusion ...

*******************

As I have posted before CA MJ and MMJ businesses owe income tax on 100% of sales, not net income.

I am sad to report that the language of Prop 19, the IRC, and all case law regarding taxation of MJ agree that this is a taxable business and the tax must be applied to 100% of sales.

I don't believe that many ICmagers or other people in the weed game pay federal income tax on 100% of sales, but that is the law.

So all you guys calling for us all to be legal, do you pay federal income tax on 100% of your gross revenue?

 

[Hydrosun]

Hahhaha hydrosun is comedy.... What won't this guy say to sway voters????

Your making the IRS sound like the DEA....

So why are you really against this? Are you afraid you can't grow enough in a 5x5 for personal use? Or that you can't grow enough to sell?

Just be real. We already think your a clown. Might as well just tell us the truth to why you so fiercly oppose 19....

I can grow more than enough for me in 5x5. I just choose to use more. There is NO law against growing in my state. If you don't believe me head to the NV state forum on this site and check out the very few threads.

The IRS is like the DEA, so tell us you didn't smoke all those flowers you posted earlier. Do you comply with the taxation on 100% of GROSS REVENUE?

I'm really against prop 19 because I think it is a bad bill for growers of CA. So there is some truth from me. How about a little truth from you about your tax payments?

 

[vta]

If you really think that people shouldn't grow in residential neighborhoods, then there isn't much hope for us. This is a harmless plant. So harmless in fact that having the plants is alright, just not more than 25sq'

See...either you can't comprehend shit, are super high or just want to poke because....I never said that. COMMERCIAL were talking about COMMERCIAL grows. Did I say I don't think people should grow in residential? Dude...c'mon now

 

[vta]

I was poking around in another thread and Brain posted about stop19.com. They have this "How will Prop 19 affect you?" list. I thought I would post it up and add my comments in red

How will Prop 19 affect you?

• Are you age 18-20? You will not be allowed to consume cannabis legally under Prop 19. Currently, all you need is a medical recommendation to do so.

They are not allowed to anyway

• Do you interact with anyone under age of 21? You will be looking at up to 6 months in jail for passing them a joint. (If the person is under 18 you will be looking at up to 7 years in prison.)

Are you kidding me? Really?? Well I'll be damned! What they are refering to here is

(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.

ok..now that part of 19..IS NOT NEW! It is already California law! This is what is added...

(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.

so...the additional sentence added is 6 months..

• Do you live in the same "space" and a minor? (Space could mean anything from the same house to an entire apartment complex.) You will not be allowed to consume cannabis.

This is a big stretch. here is the verbage from 19

(iv) smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present.

Now..this is not another 'new' addition to law. What this is saying...and only what it is saying is that 19 simply doesn't cover you from smoking around minors. So are far as that goes it's business as usual. Also note it says "space and when minors are present" That means the same room. It is a wild stretch to think this could mean an entire apartment building

• Do you grow cannabis with a doctor recommendation? Prop 19 will likely be interpreted by law enforcement and judges to limit your grow space to 5′x5′.

Another lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215 and we have been over that many many times here.

• Do you provide your extra medical cannabis to dispensaries? It will be a crime to do so if Prop 19 passes. In addition, large Oakland growers and tobacco companies will take control of the market and push you out.

Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR

• Do you currently have to use your medical cannabis anywhere but home? Prop 19 will prevent patients from using their medicine anywhere in pubic. Which for many people with illnesses is not always possible.

Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again

• Do you sell your extra medical cannabis to other medical patients? Prop 19 will make this practice illegal. Even if you are only selling it to cover your growing cost.

Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again and again...boy they are making this easy!

• Do you currently enjoy the use of cannabis free from Government interference? Not only will the Government impose excessive taxes under Prop 19, but the federal government will likely respond with unprecedented action against California cannabis users. "The federal Controlled Substances Act makes it a felony to grow or sell cannabis. California can repeal its own marijuana laws, leaving enforcement to the feds. But it can’t legalize a federal felony. Therefore, any grower or seller paying California taxes on marijuana sales or filing pot-related California regulatory paperwork would be confessing, in writing, to multiple federal crimes."

Ok...their 1st sentence is wrong because it is currently AGAINST the law. Their 2nd one is a meant to spread fear that the feds are going to mass thousands of agents and start raiding 5x5 grows...someone ought to tell them the fed start count is 100 and good luck with that in 5x5{not you Anti, I'm sure you could}

 

[vta]

So...everyone of the "stop19" camps points are wrong....must suck to be them