Smart Pots

[chef]

Bullshit!

Unfortunately extra perlite really wont help. Compost and EWC in containers just create one big muddy mess when used in excess. Even at 15% its nothing but muck. You should water a container thats got lots of ewc or compost in it, then dump it out and look at the bottom. You'll most likely see muck.

I limit myself to 10% personally, and will probably completely eliminate it from future mixes. I only use them for the microbes. The rest of the small amount of macros and minors are easily supplied from other components or fertilizers.

To borrow a line from Tapla(gardenweb forum guru), adding perlite to a compost/ewc laden mix is like adding perlite to pudding. You can add tons and tons of perlite to it, but you still have pudding.

Perlite &/or Pumice WILL help, not if you seriously made mud though & then WTF were ya thinkin? It'd be like adding gravel to cement, theres a reason soil mixes have a large % of Peat or Coco.

EWC adds a lot more than just microbes too.

The only time perlite will really help aerate your soil is when all the soil particles are nearly the same size as the perlite. If you have a wide mix of particle sizes, the smaller ones fill the macropores(space between the larger particles), and you end up with poor aeration, and too much water retention. This is why its best to try and use components that are nearly the same size.

If you'd like to learn more about soil structure, and get a leg up, I can provide some links from Tapla. Its really eye opening stuff. Ive learned alot from him.

Tapla is full o shit too!

Look at the sand at the beach...
Packed pretty fkin tight aye? Yep, all same particle size too.

New road? Yep, layers of gravel/same particle size under that blacktop.
Why? Because they pack tight...

The larger variety of particle sizes, the less compacted & more aerated the soil will be...fact!


Oh, and taller pots are better than shorter ones. The taller the pot, the more air that is available for the roots.

yadda yadda yadda...

Same volume...a big footprint pot will outyield a tall one. Don't use mud, they'll have plenty of air...

now carry on...

 

[Dave Coulier]

Bullshit!



now carry on...

Im sorry, but you are talking out of your ass.

Peat, and Coco are used because its widely available and cheap. That doesn't make it a great potting soil ingredient. It breaks down quickly and leads to soil compaction, which reduces the air porosity of the soil.

You know nothing about soil dynamics. Do you even know what a perched water table is? When you use tall pots, less of your roots are in this saturated zone of water that doesn't drain naturally(unless tilted), which is why short fat pots are crap.

Since you dont know anything about soil dynamics, I will give you a great example that is easily understood.

Take a pot and fill it full of marbles. Now run water through it. It'll drain very quickly because of the macropores between the same sized marbles.

Now add bb's to it. Those bb's fill up the macropores. Now run water through it again and see how slowly it drains.

Now add very fine sand to this vase. These smaller particles fill up the spaces between the bb's. Now run water through it and watch as it drains even more slowly.

The only time you wouldn't want a soil mixture of the same sized particles is if its small particles. You could take a bag of play sand, and it'd drain really shitty even though the particles are nearly the same size. Why because they are small and the macropores they create are small as well.

The particle size for soil one should strive for is in the 2-4mm range. If everything is this size, it will drain well, and provide plenty of aeration.

 

[chef]

I knew you were talking about the perched water table, 1/2 sec after I read your comment BOY!

I thought the sand/road analogy would simplify it for ya, guess not...

 

[Dave Coulier]

I knew you were talking about the perched water table, 1/2 sec after I read your comment BOY!

I thought the sand/road analogy would simplify it for ya, guess not...

If you want to be ignorant, and ignore the example I gave you for why you are wrong then feel free. Hopefully someone will actually understand it.

 

[chef]

I just spent the last year dialing in a new commercial grow mix, 2 grades of Perlite, 2 grades of Pumice & 2 grades of Peat.
Why? well tapla's theory can blow me & my mix
Why? because I've been doing this for over 30 years & have placed in every Cup I've entered...In n Out of Oregon!

First time I've pulled that trump card lol Don't know soil dynamics...fkin puhlease.

I'm sure tapla grows pretty plants, but I GROW BUDS! big fkin gnarly ones

 

[Lazyman]

I'd suggest coco chips over perlite any day, water holding/aeration without any white stuff to hide later. Expensive but works great.

 

[airphat36]

I just got some of CAP's gropots, they're taller, narrower than Smartpots, and have nice handles sewn on. They are also a LOT cheaper, check out htgsupply for prices, but they only come in up to 7 gallon, nothing bigger yet. I'm putting my moms in them!

Yup thats the one I got. I love the nifty handles.

 

[airphat36]

I just spent the last year dialing in a new commercial grow mix, 2 grades of Perlite, 2 grades of Pumice & 2 grades of Peat.
Why? well tapla's theory can blow me & my mix
Why? because I've been doing this for over 30 years & have placed in every Cup I've entered...In n Out of Oregon!

First time I've pulled that trump card lol Don't know soil dynamics...fkin puhlease.

I'm sure tapla grows pretty plants, but I GROW BUDS! big fkin gnarly ones

I don’t doubt that you have an incredible mix and all that but just because you use multiple grades does not mean that particles of varied size give better drainage.

Given materials with equal ability to hold water the uniform particle size will give better drainage than if you mix in smaller particles. But it would also have better drainage if you add larger particles. Although if you have multiple substrates within your medium there are many other factors such as water retention to consider concerning drainage.

I’m no expert on Soil Dynamics but I’m sure you can both agree on one thing. There's more than one formula given all the materials available (Coco coir, coco chunks, peat, pumice, EWC, Perlite, etc, etc) to come up with a mix that will drain and breath well given your particular growth method.

 

[Dorje113]

I wonder how frequently. Daily or every other? I guess it doesn't matter, I enjoy being among the plants and they like my CO2 haha

Totally depends, but prolly every day. I was watering my 20 gal sp's every other before I got an a/c, then it dropped back to every 3rd day. Plant size and temp. seem to be the factors... just pointing out that sp's need more frequent watering than plastic, which is a good reason to up a size.

 

[Dorje113]

Thanks for the tip Dorje but wow 20 gallons is allot of coco.

I hope 3 gal pots can get me through 5 wks 18/06 as long as I don’t flower in SP’s. Otherwise I can just transplant into my Hempy buckets sooner.

I would love to see a 20 gallon monster. These must be outdoor right? How many would you place under 1KW indoor if using 20 gal SP’s?

I don't use coco, and I reuse my soil mix, so it makes it easy... just more work to do.

I have been experimenting with 4 plants in 20 gal smart pots in my 5x5 closet.

Here's a pic of one of my plants early in flower

 

[Dave Coulier]

Thats one bad ass looking plant Dorje.

 

[Oldmanriver]

DIY soft pots

DIY soft pots

I've been making my own starter soft pots from landscape fabric and a stapler. I have had great success with this. Tried lots of different textures, even nylon window screen (works with vermiculite and perlite real well. You have to cut them off to transplant, though, cause the roots are many and they grab the polyester fabric. fold a blank in half and staple up the open edge and the bottom. Turn inside out..Bob's your uncle.

 

[airphat36]

I don't use coco, and I reuse my soil mix, so it makes it easy... just more work to do.

I have been experimenting with 4 plants in 20 gal smart pots in my 5x5 closet.

Here's a pic of one of my plants early in flower

Beautiful job there Dorje. What pruning techniques, how many weeks veg on her?

 

[EatMoGrass]

Great looking plant Dorge113! If I may ask how exactly do you go about moving those big girls around? She looks heavy. Too heavy for my crippled ass to move on my own.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I've been making my own starter soft pots from landscape fabric and a stapler. I have had great success with this. Tried lots of different textures, even nylon window screen (works with vermiculite and perlite real well. You have to cut them off to transplant, though, cause the roots are many and they grab the polyester fabric. fold a blank in half and staple up the open edge and the bottom. Turn inside out..Bob's your uncle.

I like the innovation. Ive wanted fabric pots that are 1/2 gallon for starting seeds in. I may just have to make some like you have got there.

 

[Oldmanriver]

I just made some from window screen and set them in a tray of water for some new clones. a variation on the walmart ice cube tray gambit. This time I'm trying a more squatty shape. I'll try different shapes and heights with the same clones and report back.

 

[Dorje113]

Thanks for the nice comments

@airphat, veg time is probably around 8 weeks from clone, but I got the plants after they were grown out a bit... I use supercropping mainly, then stake or tie up branches as needed. I lollipop and prune small branches off continuously through the end of stretch and defoliate as needed after that.

@eatmo, I have them on trays so they slide around on the floor easily but they are heavy right after watering. They aren't too bad right before watering and an average person could move them then.

Also, the plant in the pics is snowcap, and WOW, what a great plant. Serious potency, great high and very distinct taste smell of pine and sweet haze...

 

[SecretGardener]

Thanks for the nice comments

@airphat, veg time is probably around 8 weeks from clone, but I got the plants after they were grown out a bit... I use supercropping mainly, then stake or tie up branches as needed. I lollipop and prune small branches off continuously through the end of stretch and defoliate as needed after that.

@eatmo, I have them on trays so they slide around on the floor easily but they are heavy right after watering. They aren't too bad right before watering and an average person could move them then.

Also, the plant in the pics is snowcap, and WOW, what a great plant. Serious potency, great high and very distinct taste smell of pine and sweet haze...

sparkly!

 

[jaykush]

Unfortunately extra perlite really wont help. Compost and EWC in containers just create one big muddy mess when used in excess. Even at 15% its nothing but muck. You should water a container thats got lots of ewc or compost in it, then dump it out and look at the bottom. You'll most likely see muck.

it totally depends on the compost source. with my homemade compost i can plant in 100% compost, have no compaction, good drainage, good water holding, and no mud.

BUT, try that with the commercial compost from the garden center near me, which im guessing is 90% manure from the smell and sifted to all hell, i would end up with a soppy mud.

 

[chef]

ok, on a more serious note, errrr... less asshattish note

I don’t doubt that you have an incredible mix and all that but just because you use multiple grades does not mean that particles of varied size give better drainage.

Agree, it's the mix as a whole. Compaction seems to be the worst enemy across the board. This chunkier mix simply doesn't compact like finer mixes & sucks down a 1/2 gal top water in seconds.
That's also my best test...
How long to absorb a 1/2 gal topwater after 60-70 days of real world soil compaction?
I've also found that a good water tension breaker is HUGE! Hydrophobic soil & dry pockets suck! We want MAX Hydrophyllic wicking action
I'm down to 2 coconut based, still deciding. The first thing I do on mix day, is bust up & treat the peat bales!

Given materials with equal ability to hold water the uniform particle size will give better drainage than if you mix in smaller particles. But it would also have better drainage if you add larger particles. Although if you have multiple substrates within your medium there are many other factors such as water retention to consider concerning drainage.

Agree, the smaller particles seem to be what really plug things up & make compaction issues worse. The water retention is hugely effected by wicking action too. see above.

I’m no expert on Soil Dynamics but I’m sure you can both agree on one thing. There's more than one formula given all the materials available (Coco coir, coco chunks, peat, pumice, EWC, Perlite, etc, etc) to come up with a mix that will drain and breath well given your particular growth method.

Absolutely!

One should study & learn all this stuff, everything you can. It's just one piece of a huge puzzle tho & none of it is gospel in regards to Indoor Cannabis. We do things & go to extremes that no scientist would ever dream of doing, for any other crop on the planet. All their work has been done within those parameters...Outdoor/Greenhouse crops on the cheap.
That's where we pick it up & take it to the indoor extremes!

my2