Seed Germination problem?

[Xtensity]

Not sure if this belongs here, but I figure a seed is simply an undeveloped cannabis plant so what the hell..

I have germinated seeds many many times with this method and various other methods... so I guess this is just asking about potential seed problems.

I got about 50 or so seeds from another local grower friend for free...... I put them in a cup[240ml] of water mixed with 1/4[1.2ml] tsp of 3% H2O2...

They've been in the cups for about.... 7[at the least]-15 days.... I originally logged my activity to keep track of what I'm doing.... but looking back at the log, foolish me I forgot to put a date..

About 35/50 of the seeds sank to the bottom meaning they do indeed have an embryo in them.... I also stir the solution daily since I don't think the H2O2 emulsifies in the water. The minute amount of Hydrogen Peroxide mixed in ensures there will be some oxygen ready for when the tap root begins to grow.

I've read seed germination can take up to 10 days, though for all 35/50 seeds? I believe the seeds came off a plant that was smoked before an actual cure; seeds were removed from grinder and saved. This causes me to suspect that the seeds may not be fully developed, but a large majority of them do have embryos in them which cause them to sink.


Any clues as to why these might not be germinating? There was also 10 other seeds I put in a paper towel 2 days ago, and 1 of those seeds has germinated and sprouted in that short time... but all the other 9 in the paper towel along with the cup aren't doing anything.

I've also wondered and read that some seeds germinate better in the light. Would this have any negative impact on cannabis seeds if the cup they were in or moistened paper towel was underneath a light to keep them moderately warm? Or would this cause damage to the tap root as soon as it comes out? I want other growers input on this before I try it.

Any clue?

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

"The minute amount of Hydrogen Peroxide mixed in ensures there will be some oxygen ready for when the tap root begins to grow."

I sure hope so. You say you've used this many day soak method before with success, so I'm not going to argue with that. Just that the main reason I never let seeds soak any more than a few hours is that I'm afraid of drowning them. I use the wet paper towel in the ziplock method exclusively. In varying my technique with this method over the years, I've learned to squeeze quite a bit of water out of the towel before putting the seeds in. When I don't squeeze enough water out, seeds can take up to 4-5 days to germinate. Squeeze the right amount of water out, and they're up and growing in 24-36 hours, every time. It seems that extra water in the towel slows germination somewhat. That makes me stay far away from the soak in water method.

 

[Xtensity]

"The minute amount of Hydrogen Peroxide mixed in ensures there will be some oxygen ready for when the tap root begins to grow."

I sure hope so. You say you've used this many day soak method before with success, so I'm not going to argue with that. Just that the main reason I never let seeds soak any more than a few hours is that I'm afraid of drowning them. I use the wet paper towel in the ziplock method exclusively. In varying my technique with this method over the years, I've learned to squeeze quite a bit of water out of the towel before putting the seeds in. When I don't squeeze enough water out, seeds can take up to 4-5 days to germinate. Squeeze the right amount of water out, and they're up and growing in 24-36 hours, every time. It seems that extra water in the towel slows germination somewhat. That makes me stay far away from the soak in water method.

Well I mean... I germinated 15/15 seeds last week in the cup of water mixed with H2O2 last week in a few days. All of those sprouted fine and are growing. I find the method works fairly well.. Interesting thing there about letting the paper towel dry.. Are you afraid of it getting too dry or do you put it in a plastic bag to keep the humidity in?

 

[blwd67]

I have a little germ problem also. I have tried the cup o water method with limited success and the paper towel with a bit more. Right now I have two in soil as this was recommended for better overall health and vigor. Problem is I have already lost two seedlings barely sprouted. The first had not even shed it's husk, fuck it then. The second sprouted nicely and looked great but after the second six hour dark period it was drooped completely over, never recovered. When I pulled it the root structure was, well, under developed to say the least. The surviving seedling is looking ok except all four the leaves (two true leaves and the two seed leaves) are pointing straight up. Like praise the lord amen straight to god in heaven. Growing in a small cab with 150w hps. Temps seem fine but apparently what the fuck do I know. Thanks

 

[hartstocht]

Pre-cracking. Soak the seeds, then crack the tip every so gently, works for even the most shelliest of seeds. I discovered this method when I first started growing lowyder 1.

Best of luck Amigo.

 

[olsmokey]

That keeling over might be "damping off"

Is it important to use distilled water. I have always used tap and it was fine with my seeds. But its not working for bought in ones. Maybe they don't like hard water?

The second sprouted nicely and looked great but after the second six hour dark period it was drooped completely over, never recovered. When I pulled it the root structure was, well, under developed to say the least. The surviving seedling is looking ok except all four the leaves (two true leaves and the two seed leaves) are pointing straight up. Like praise the lord amen straight to god in heaven. Growing in a small cab with 150w hps. Temps seem fine but apparently what the fuck do I know. Thanks

 

[ibjamming]

I have a little germ problem also. I have tried the cup o water method with limited success and the paper towel with a bit more. Right now I have two in soil as this was recommended for better overall health and vigor. Problem is I have already lost two seedlings barely sprouted. The first had not even shed it's husk, fuck it then. The second sprouted nicely and looked great but after the second six hour dark period it was drooped completely over, never recovered. When I pulled it the root structure was, well, under developed to say the least. The surviving seedling is looking ok except all four the leaves (two true leaves and the two seed leaves) are pointing straight up. Like praise the lord amen straight to god in heaven. Growing in a small cab with 150w hps. Temps seem fine but apparently what the fuck do I know. Thanks

I think you need to water them more...yes, I know how RARE that is... But young leaves STRAIGHT up? Keeling over, not having the energy to pop it's husk off...all seem like under watering to me.

To the OP...7-15 days is WAY too long to be soaking. I soak mine overnight that's it, sometimes I don't even soak seeds. Then right into the soil. I get seedlings popping up out of the ground 3-4 days later.

Don't make sowing seeds too complicated! Don't drown them either.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[blwd67]

It could be under watering, they were planted in peat pods that I had lying around from veggies. Soil mix wasn't ready so I figured what the hell, bad move I think. Also, what exactly is 'damping over'

I am thinking maybe the peat was too compact. The leaves straight up is still a flippin thorn in my side though, I would really like to not lose anymore.

 

[olsmokey]

Yeh those peat pots can get dry and then you get a space down the side. Unless you mean Jiffy 7s which didn't work for me. Damping off is the complete opposite of that..too much wet...

from WIki "Damping off is the term used for a number of different fungus-caused ailments which can kill seeds or seedlings before or after they germinate.

The term is used most often in horticulture, where seeds are specifically planted to be germinated, especially if in warm, wet conditions which speed growth but are considered conducive to fungal attacks.

A given seed can become infected with a fungus, often causing it to darken and soften. This can kill it before the seedling emerges, or cause the seedling to be weak, sometimes getting "wet" patches on it which decay until it falls apart.
Likewise, a seedling can be infected after it sprouts, before it leaves the ground, or even after it appears well-developed, the latter often resulting in the plant mysteriously thinning right where it touches the ground, until its stem at that point rots and it falls over.""
"

Vermiculite can be used to open up peat mixes, from any garden store.

 

[blwd67]

Thanks for the info, it sounds like exactly that, Damping off. I'll do some research but any good ideas on how I can change my conditions quickly to solve this problem?

Edit: so I did some research and found a few suggestions. Nettle emulsion or tea, cinnamon, chamomile tea, clove tea, and a few more. Any thoughts? Don't know if I mentioned but I am in a cab, 150w hps, all organic soil.

 

[2Lazy]

I know myself and many other growers who are having exceptional results just placing their seeds in coco. It retains a great amount of both moisture and air and requires no handling of a tap root. I'm 19/19 on two grows, and 7/7 with seed stock that historically went more like 2/7 with other methods.

If your seeds just aren't cracking try the coco. Just plant it and come back in 4 days.

 

[blwd67]

I What are rapid rooters? I will try coco, right now I have two seemingly healthy seedlings, I'll probably plant two more.

I use tap water but I am on a well. I measured it with paper And it's around 6.8.

 

[blwd67]

This is turning into a huge pain in my ass. I have only ever used bag seeds before with no problems really. Some germinated and some didn't but I wasn't losing seedlings like this. So far I have lost two seedlings and one seed that didn't come up at all. One of the remaining seedlings (ice) looks great but the other is not. It is yellowing already and upon close inspection it looks like the stem gets narrower near where it meets the soil. The leaves have stopped reaching for the sky, but they are yellowing; the cotyledons are completely yellow, the next set are about half yellow ( starting from the tips) and the next set at slightly yellow at the tips. I know it sounds like N, but it isn't even two weeks in? I am vexed to say the least.

Please help me before my prodigious temper causes me to do something I will regret.

Wiki mentioned that the fungi and bacteria that cause damping off can stay in the medium for a long time, should I scrap my soil mix? That would suck since I was all excited at having mixed what I thought to be a great medium. Like I said, the ice appears to be doing fine and it was planted directly into the mix. The safari mix seed was put in a peat pod first, it's the remaining seedling with problems. The other seed that was planted in the soil mix didn't make it past barely breaking the surface, and the other two that went into peat pods also kicked the bucket.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Seeds are much more likely to damp off in soil that has too much nutrients. Too much nutrients also causes yellowing leaves and slow growth. Seedlings don't need any nutrients at all until they put on some size and weight. Germinating directly in soilmix is easier than in moist paper towel-then into soilmix, but the paper towel method gives higher germination rates and higher survival after germination. It's why I switched to that method....ohh...lets see, back before they invented ziploc baggies!

The most common mistake people make with seeds is too much water in the paper towel, which slows germination. Too much humidity suppresses growth, same as it does with clones in the dome. Seedlings have to 'reach' for the water as soon as they emerge for best results. A fast squeeze, about equal to a handshake in tightness and duration, accompanied by a quick shake of the excess water leaves the paper towel just about the exact right amount of wet.

Unfortunately, wetting the paper towel is kind of like repotting in that it's one of the hardest skills to transfer by text, you're really better off coming over to my house for a demo.

 

[blwd67]

It makes sense that too many nutrients would help cause damping off, and it is true one of the seeds planted directly into the medium did just that. The ice seedling, however, was planted directly also and it is doing the best, no signs of anything other than a healthy baby girl. The safari mix seed that was germed in a paper towel and planted in a peat pod is not doing so well.

I tried directly planting them after reading on a breeder website that they prefer this method. I figured what the he'll, why not give it a try. It seems more natural, but then in nature we aren't getting near 100% germination.

With the paper towel method I was sure to squeeze excess water and leave some air in the bag. I think I will go pick Up some coco and try two more directly in that. Possibly an over night stay between some paper towels first.

Is damping off a contagious ailment? Meaning, do I need to scrub out my box?

Thanks for all the help, seeds are to precious a commodity around here to be dying off like that.