Lucas vs GH 3part

[maryanne3087]

Hello folks,

I'm looking to hear about everyone's experiences with the GH 3 part lineup. I've read into mixing the Micro and Bloom at various rates (8-14,6-9,8-16, and 7.5-16) known as the Lucas or modified Lucas formula. The original Lucas formula is 7.5-16 or 8-16 for simplicity.

I've been told using all 3 parts is cheaper and better for veg and early flowering.

Reasons:
GH grow contains 2 % N where Bloom contains none
GH Grow is cheaper than Micro (as is Bloom)
GH Grow contains 6% K and .5% Mg which is more appropriate for vegging (Micro contains 1% K and no Mg, Bloom contains 1.5% Mg and 4% K)

Reading into the Lucas threads specifically the Head and Rezdog as they're modified for coco which is my choice medium (at the moment) Head recommends a pH of 5.8 or 5.9 is appropriate and Rezdog originally recommended a pH of 6.0 and then later recommends a pH of 5.5 what is it? I have friends who grow in hydro and say the correct pH is 6.2 as Mg is locked out at a pH lower than 5.9. Looking at various charts it seems 6.2 could be correct for "hydro" and 5.5 could be correct for coco as "soilless" seems to be optimal at that range. This doesn't explain why promix users generally use a pH of 6.2 or so.

What is the verdict? You decide!

 

[REZDOG]

See "The Recipe" Thread stickied in my forum for more concise information.

 

[Japanfreakier]

I like the recipe on the bottles better than lucas and get more yield with it.

 

[maryanne3087]

See "The Recipe" Thread stickied in my forum for more concise information.

Hey REZDOG,

I've read through the topic for the most part as I have with Head's. You've stated numerous times (as has Head) that the recipe or 6/9 formula is meant to give the plants what they need and nothing more for the purest end product possible.

I'm more curious as to yield vs the two and plant health/avoiding deficiencies. I know you've stated you don't get deficiencies but haven't come across much info as to your tapwater hardiness. Many people seem to experience N and Ca deficiencies when using the 6/9 formula esp with RO water. It's hard to say if these people are pHing properly or not, but it is of concern.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Guest 18340]

I like the recipe on the bottles better than lucas and get more yield with it.

(I accidently hit the "edit" button on your post, meant to hit "quote")
Anyway's, I saw no dif in yield when I switched from GH 3 part to Lucas, nor when I switched to Maxibloom. Mainly I switched because it's cheaper and easier to mix.
Not doubting you at all, just that my experience was different.

 

[maryanne3087]

I like the recipe on the bottles better than lucas and get more yield with it.

Do you follow it to a T? Do you only use the 3part or do you use Floralicious and Diamond Nectar too?

(I accidently hit the "edit" button on your post, meant to hit "quote")
Anyway's, I saw no dif in yield when I switched from GH 3 part to Lucas, nor when I switched to Maxibloom. Mainly I switched because it's cheaper and easier to mix.
Not doubting you at all, just that my experience was different.

I've heard people claiming no change and I've heard people claiming loss of yield switching to Lucas or gaining yield switching to 3part from Lucas more often than in favor of Lucas. I don't know what to believe. Mixing doesn't seem too complicated adding a bottle and it's cheaper than using more Micro, same cost as using the same amount of Bloom.

I've personally used Floranova Grow and really loved it for veg but can't compare it to Lucas or the GH 3part really. I just want to hear peoples experiences either way.

Thanks for the reply Evlme2

 

[Japanfreakier]

I just use the bottle recipe, the original one that doesn't mention the other stuff, just the 3 part. Noticed a big increase in yield when using systems other than dwc.

 

[ShroomDr]

See "The Recipe" Thread stickied in my forum for more concise information.

Have you ever tried or considered Awesome Blossoms instead of Liquid KoolBloom? AB has some of the micros that would be lost when the GH Flora Micro is dropped from the lineup.

I asked this question in that thread, but there are so many replies there, i wouldnt be surprised if it got lost.

GH Liquid KoolBloom (0-10-10)
1120g/946mL = 1.184g/mL
@2.5mL/Gal
N 0
P 34
K 65
Mg NOT LISTED
S NOT LISTED
Derived from: Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate.


Technaflora Awesome Blossoms (2-11-11) (NH4).82% (NO3)1.18% Fe.0008% B.00011% Cu.00011% Mn.00024% Mo.00001% Zn.00005%
128g/125mL = 1.024g/mL
@2.5mL/Gal
N 14
P 32
K 62
Mg 0
Ca 0
S NOT LISTED
Fe 0.005
B 0.0007
Cu 0.0007
Mn 0.0016
Mo 0.0001
Na NOT LISTED
Zn 0.0003
Derived from: Mono Potassium Phosphate, Diphosphoric Acid, Ammonium Nitrate, Iron DTPA, Iron EDTA, Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate.

 

[maryanne3087]

REZDOG uses the koolbloom powder now not the liquid.

 

[maryanne3087]

Another thread posted by Carl Carlson.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181405

Highlight of the thread

Three part base nutrient systems have been widely used and accepted through the indoor gardening community, and have been delivering great results for years. Based on modern research conducted on indoor grown high yielding crops, it was determined that using the three part nutrient system actually produced better results when being applied in a 1:1:1 ratio versus the common 3:2:1 ratio, especially when bloom boosters intended for indoor crops were used in conjunction with the three part nutrient system. 2:1 ratios of three part base nutrients were the least effective of all (where the “grow” component was omitted entirely through the bloom phase).

Upon analyzing the nutrient levels and ratios achieved in the nutrient solution for feeding indoor crops in the bloom phase, applying the base nutrients in a 1:1:1 ratio using popular three part nutrient components, the level and ratios much more closely resembled those of the internal nutrient levels and ratios of the plant being grown versus using the three part nutrient components in the common 3:2:1 method.

 

[Japanfreakier]

1:1:1? That's the clone formula according to my bottles. I don't use anything 'cept the 3 part. Is the plant being grown in the test cannabis?

 

[maryanne3087]

Could be but doubtful. It is likely to be a variety of crops. It says "based on modern research conducted on high yielding crops".

The 1:1:1 = equal parts which is what GH recommends for seedlings. For mild growth and growth they recommend more Grow and then more Grow and Micro. I can only assume Mild Growth would be when more sets of leaves are starting to be produced and Growth would be somewhere between that and established roots mass. The bottles might say different I'm just looking at their website for the run to waste chart.

http://generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_DrainToWaste.pdf


The first post of the thread linked in my previous post is rather interesting. It shows that the nutrient uptake or demand is rather similar to the Rezdog or Head recipe not accounting for the natural presence of K and the CEC of coco which makes nutrients going into the medium a bit different than their face value when assessing their availability or quantities to plants.

 

[F_T_P!]

This is the question I have been wondering so this run I am going to try the 3 part instead of 6/9 or 8/16.

Last run I started out with 6/9, but the plants seemed to be lacking, so I went to 8/16 which improved growth.

If the 3 part does not improve anything I may switch to Maxibloom.

 

[maryanne3087]

Great, I hope you document your experiment!
I am going to experiment a bit myself but don't have the space to dedicate lights to a certain nutrient regiment.

I'm going to be running 4-5 lights in my flowering room one is going to House and Garden nutes, 1-2 are going to be a hydro sog (likely two), leaving me with maybe 2 lights I could compare the GH 3part vs Lucas. I was thinking of comparing the Floranova to the Lucas as I have 2 litres of each the Floranova grow and bloom to use up asap as they're nearly a year old as it is.

 

[toohighmf]

Another thread posted by Carl Carlson.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181405

Highlight of the thread

Three part base nutrient systems have been widely used and accepted through the indoor gardening community, and have been delivering great results for years. Based on modern research conducted on indoor grown high yielding crops, it was determined that using the three part nutrient system actually produced better results when being applied in a 1:1:1 ratio versus the common 3:2:1 ratio, especially when bloom boosters intended for indoor crops were used in conjunction with the three part nutrient system. 2:1 ratios of three part base nutrients were the least effective of all (where the “grow” component was omitted entirely through the bloom phase).

Upon analyzing the nutrient levels and ratios achieved in the nutrient solution for feeding indoor crops in the bloom phase, applying the base nutrients in a 1:1:1 ratio using popular three part nutrient components, the level and ratios much more closely resembled those of the internal nutrient levels and ratios of the plant being grown versus using the three part nutrient components in the common 3:2:1 method.

This was Ask Erik Biksa's writings, and I'm glad Carl posted it..

also japanfreakler, 1-1-1 is the "transition" phase from veg to bloom on the GH bottle.

as for clones, I would have to go with rez/lucas for freshly rooted clones. phosphorus busts roots like crazy. I have even used koolbloom as a base for rooted cuts w amazing results. without roots, plants can't uptake as much, 3-5 days of bloom food and they are ready for some serious feeding.

PS: I use calmg+ with everything when using RO. Magnesium is essential in mid bloom. can't really say it has ever hurt me, where not using it certainly has.

 

[Japanfreakier]

Transition or clone on my bottles, but I'm just talking about the ratios being equal, still imagine I'd want it near the ppms as the formula for bloom though.

 

[BerndV]

PS: I use calmg+ with everything when using RO. Magnesium is essential in mid bloom. can't really say it has ever hurt me, where not using it certainly has.

How much per gallon?

 

[toohighmf]

3-5ml/gal w additional epsom salts

 

[maryanne3087]

how much additional epsom salts do you use?

I've read people using .5gr to 1tsp per gal w/o Cal/mag

 

[toohighmf]

I just toss a pinch in every couple days