Water chiller cost

[what the]

This thread is a crazy confusing.
Like a moving target. Every response of yours adds a tinny bit more detail yet is ever changing.

Try reading your OP and all of your responses in order. It is a mass of contradictions.

Now we know that you have compared the internal components of a window shaker of unknown origin to the internal components of a water chiller also of unknown origin and you have concluded the internals are the same.

This makes a huge difference in the way we understand your OP.

According to your exhaustive research they are both the same and you should rest well knowing that your window shaker is the way to go..... Even though they are totally different.

Congratulations. You have answered your own question.

Peace,
-BT

OK I thought I was pretty clear in my OP. I stated exactly what kind of chiller for what application and asked very specifically about cost.

I have done extensive research on chiller units and many you can buy are made on a window a/c chassis. like these:
http://chillking.com/products

The small units are built on Frigidaire window a/c chassis with the same compressor and condenser. In place of the standard evap coil there is a copper coaxial heat exchanger. I have pulled one apart. I know exactly what I am talking about. Clearly you do not.

Please explain to me how they are "totally different".

Better yet, if you don't want to answer a simple question about COST of chiller units for cooling lights, don't respond at all. I'm sorry this is all very confusing for you and your poor reading comprehension skills. But please stay out of my thread if you can't keep on topic.

Congratulations. You have answered your own question.

I'm asking what YOU think about ONE question. I already know what I think and how I like to set up grows. I'm not asking for advice on a setup, just what YOU think about the cost of chiller systems.

pretty hard for me to answer that question, eh?

 

[what the]

im having a hard time even wanting to answer the op pretty rude for someone that wants help. Im moving on you dont need my help

I'm not trying to be rude, but holy crap. No one reads the posts, they're too excited to give some bit of irrelevant information.

Don't answer, I don't care. Either answer or don't, don't waste my time telling me you're not going to answer or telling me about something completely different than I am asking. What the hell is the point of that?

 

[BlackThumb]

Better yet, if you don't want to answer a simple question about COST of chiller units for cooling lights, don't respond at all. I'm sorry this is all very confusing for you and your poor reading comprehension skills. But please stay out of my thread if you can't keep on topic.

Gone

 

[what the]

Yeah I didn't think you would be able to defend yourself.

 

[MIGHTYMITE]

To clarify. At what price point would you consider going with a chiller?

at the point i needed one,,

basically the chiller is a lot more mobile friendly..imo
if its a choice i want the one i can pickup and move and use somewhere else without all the hvac routing and so forth

just tubes,,

 

[Bigrick31]

Chillking is wicked expensive but thats because they claim tehir chillers are twice as efficient as others. I had spoke with them about their chillers and they claim that their 1hp chiller is as effective as an active aqua 2hp chiller but uses less energy as its only a 1hp chiller. Would I go water cooled over mini spli Hells yea in a heart beat!

Reasons

1. Security you can put the chiller anywhere a mini split your outdoor unit needs to be outside in order to funciton properly you can mount them inside but tehy requre aditional work/money to make them work effectiverly.

2. flexability with a water chiller there are so many products made to work off of the chiller its amazing! Water cooled c02 gen water cooled dehumidifiers heat exchangers res coolers and lights! the mini split will cool your room and that is it!

3. Ease of instalation any Joe can go grab some pvc and some pvc cement and plumb their chiller mini split requires electrical and hvac skills to properly install.

4. Energy savings. Chillers are super efficient not to mention water carries temperature a lot better than air (Probably not saying this right but look it up) You chiller isnt going to run as long as you AC as its better at lowering temp than an Air conditioner also the chiller draws less amps to begin with. Could save you a ton of money on your electric bill especially if its the difference of staying in a lower cost tier with PG&E or going to one of the higher tiers the savings are huge!

How much would I pay for a chiller? I beleive someone here posted a 5k pool chiller for around $2k that seems perfect to me keep in mind anything labeled as use for hydroponics is going to cost you more than a similar product for home use IE pool chiller to a chillking chiller.

I bought an 18,000BTU mini split installed it and ended up buying a faulty line set for it. I lost all my coolant. I now need $300 worth of coolant to recharge my system and so far 3 places have given me quotes to fix the thing ranging from $800-$1000 plus I now have to bring someone into my grow space or move all my plants out which is really awkward considering I grow in an attic so its not as if they arnt going to figure out what I am doing up there. A chiller if it brakes have it replaced if you get a leak you loose some water water dosnt cost $100 per lb like R410 refrigerant. Only problem with chillers is the large initial cost to set everything up but IMHO its worth it. I wish instead of spending $1500 on a mini split I had spent $1200 on a 1hp chiller then used the $300 to buy some 55 gallon drums and some PVC.

 

[what the]

Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks you very informative.

Yeah I read about your mini-split in another thread. That sucks.

$1200 for a reliable 1HP. That sounds reasonable.

 

[Bigrick31]

Sorry its ecoplus that has the 1hp for around $1200

http://www.growlightexpress.com/water-chillers-60/ecoplus-1-hp-water-chiller-489.html

 

[budleydoright]

Yeah, that will make a great chiller, but a little bulky and time consuming to set up and move. That may be a problem, or may not depending on your situation.

Do you think there is a 40% dealer markup on these units? I was guessing 30% Any hydro shop guys in here want to share some trade secrets?

Takes all of 20 minutes to put one together. Not as portable, can't argue this point. the reason I go the getto DIY route here is not just $$. If your running water cooled lights and Co2. Your kit is completely dependent on your cooling system. In my case there is no other way to cool my rig. there's no limping along if there's a failure. Now this being the only device in my rig that has moving parts, I feel like it is also the weakest link in the rig.

when I decided to go water cooled, I assesed the risks and looked at some what if scenarios:

what if my chiller goes down at a critical phase?

will I have the cash that day to replace it?
how long to get it?
what are the consequences of being down for that time?

All of the answers to these questions were unacceptable to me so I tried to source one locally, with support. Well you can guess how that went! I finally found a pallet of salvaged laboratory grade chillers. I started looking at them closely before dropping my cash and came to the same conclusion that you have. This is just a simple refridgeration system. there was nothing special about it. I decided at that point to try the DIY AC system. Had a working chiller 30 minutes later and 100 gallons of 65 degree water within a couple of hours. this 89.00 chiller did 3 full cycles and was replaced. I now use it as an air conditioner by dropping the coil into my environment and moving air over it.

So I figured instead of spending 1200 bucks for a chiller, I'll do this and replace every year or two to keep it fresh. I sleep better at night knowing that the heart of my system is up to the task, and that there's a backup unit waiting at wallyworld almost every day of the year. ( I actually have a backup as well ).

Less than 300.00 I have a chiller, a funky AC for my box and a backup that can step in and do duty for either one in the event of a failure.
I use fountain pumps from lowes for the same reason.

Dealer markup? At full retail I would guess 40%. most shops would discount an item like this fairly deep since it would likely be a special order. Even if they are getting 40, no ones getting rich here. If they offer you good service and are knowledgeable that's a bargin.


Water cooled has many advantages to air cooled, but they come at a price. the cooling system adds quite a bit of complexity to a system. There are many points of failure. If your not pretty hands on, it's really easy to overlook some of these points. I have a no flow switch as well as a high temp shut off. I test these fairly often and have a safety checklist that i go through every night before I close up my box.

This is the chiller sitting on a purpose built insulated lined 70 gallon rez. having the heat exchanger in the rez eliminates 1 pump and about 1/2 dozen potential points of failure in the system.

Torn apart AC. the air to air heat exchanger, will become a direct to fluid heat exchanger upon contact with fluid! while the copper and aluminium are not as corrosion resistant as the exotics, it is not likely they will fail before the mechanical components.

The chiller, Rez sitting next to the veg chamber.

the results of a cool contolled environment. this is an attic setup with ambiant air temps exceeding 100 regularly.

 

[what the]

That's a pretty clean setup for that style rig. Nice work.

For a backup you can plumb a hose fitting into your supply manifold and run a hose to it. Obviously another fitting on the return manifold drained to waste. a cheap immediate backup in case of chiller or pump failure.

I'll certainly agree that you need to be a decent fabricator/technician/whatever to put together a solid water cooled system.

Those Ecoplus chillers are a little misleading in their ratings. Their plate exchangers are compact, but not as efficient as say the Chillking exchangers. a 1hp Chillking can probably cool twice as much wattage. Ecoplus are supposedly decent units for directly chilling reservoirs. They have Ti heat exchangers, an unnecessary, inefficient component for cooling lights.

I started on this in designing a 4kW highly mobile unit. Actually 8kW flipped. You can run it off of one 2HP chiller, 3 pumps. No a/c required. You can set up 8kW in one day.

 

[budleydoright]

If your sealed I would bet u need an ac.

 

[what the]

No the chiller handles the cooling. No a/c required. If I needed an a/c, why bother with water cooling? Just get a bigger a/c for much cheaper and half the work.
I don't see the point in chiller systems for your lights in addition to an a/c Just use a dehum, no ducting.

 

[budleydoright]

In my case, I cant run my chiller water cold enough to do any cooling or it will start raining in there. So before you plan on being able to use sub 50 degree water in your ice boxes, be aware every piece of plumbing in your kit is going to be dripping water all day long. A dehumidifier will be adding a ton of heat.. Add w/c co2 and you add more heat and humidity, which of course means more dehuey time.

Perhaps I don't completely understand what your setting up. I do think it would be a bitch to maintain a cool room utilizing Ice box output.

Are you talking about a water cooled AC to do an bare bulb setup?

I did try to utilize an Icebox as a heatexchanger with this setup and it just couldn't handle the load with the water in a range I could deal with. 60-65 degrees.

Also I live in the high desert, all of our water is ground based and we are rated for excessive use. dumping a few hundred gallons per hour of water down the drain would be considered environmentaly irresponsible in these parts.

 

[Numboard]

Takes all of 20 minutes to put one together. Not as portable, can't argue this point. the reason I go the getto DIY route here is not just $$. If your running water cooled lights and Co2. Your kit is completely dependent on your cooling system. In my case there is no other way to cool my rig. there's no limping along if there's a failure. Now this being the only device in my rig that has moving parts, I feel like it is also the weakest link in the rig.

when I decided to go water cooled, I assesed the risks and looked at some what if scenarios:

what if my chiller goes down at a critical phase?

will I have the cash that day to replace it?
how long to get it?
what are the consequences of being down for that time?

All of the answers to these questions were unacceptable to me so I tried to source one locally, with support. Well you can guess how that went! I finally found a pallet of salvaged laboratory grade chillers. I started looking at them closely before dropping my cash and came to the same conclusion that you have. This is just a simple refridgeration system. there was nothing special about it. I decided at that point to try the DIY AC system. Had a working chiller 30 minutes later and 100 gallons of 65 degree water within a couple of hours. this 89.00 chiller did 3 full cycles and was replaced. I now use it as an air conditioner by dropping the coil into my environment and moving air over it.

So I figured instead of spending 1200 bucks for a chiller, I'll do this and replace every year or two to keep it fresh. I sleep better at night knowing that the heart of my system is up to the task, and that there's a backup unit waiting at wallyworld almost every day of the year. ( I actually have a backup as well ).

Less than 300.00 I have a chiller, a funky AC for my box and a backup that can step in and do duty for either one in the event of a failure.
I use fountain pumps from lowes for the same reason.

Dealer markup? At full retail I would guess 40%. most shops would discount an item like this fairly deep since it would likely be a special order. Even if they are getting 40, no ones getting rich here. If they offer you good service and are knowledgeable that's a bargin.


Water cooled has many advantages to air cooled, but they come at a price. the cooling system adds quite a bit of complexity to a system. There are many points of failure. If your not pretty hands on, it's really easy to overlook some of these points. I have a no flow switch as well as a high temp shut off. I test these fairly often and have a safety checklist that i go through every night before I close up my box.


This is the chiller sitting on a purpose built insulated lined 70 gallon rez. having the heat exchanger in the rez eliminates 1 pump and about 1/2 dozen potential points of failure in the system.



Torn apart AC. the air to air heat exchanger, will become a direct to fluid heat exchanger upon contact with fluid! while the copper and aluminium are not as corrosion resistant as the exotics, it is not likely they will fail before the mechanical components.


The chiller, Rez sitting next to the veg chamber.



the results of a cool contolled environment. this is an attic setup with ambiant air temps exceeding 100 regularly.

This is exactly what I did.
Check out the thread in my siggy "chicken shack"
I ripped apart my ac stuck the rad in a bucket of antifreeze bought a little pump to circulate the water some cheap manifolds, a copper coil to stick in the buckets and a 20 dollar aquarium controller I got on ebay. Works great, Even on 120 degree days it keeps my res at a constant 70 degrees or lower! Im tellin you guys... This thing really works...

I know it looks real sketch but, it works...

 

[crsaz]

for smaller units check out craigslsit, I picket up a 1/2hp, and 2 1/3hp current chillers for $50 each from a guy getting out of the saltwater aquarium hobby

 

[good drown]

awesome thread!!!!! thanks op for starting, and thanks for the guys that shared their experience and pictures

 

[budleydoright]

I wish I could find a deal on a nice unit. but unless I can get that deal next year the same day, I am not willing to design my system around it. I want my chiller to be like a chevy 350 not like a Jaguar. sure the Jags nicer but I need something that's always available, no exclusivity. My chiller is like a kitchen appliance to me now. It isn't specialized, special order, shipped by freight, etc... it's a walmart special, one isle over from the blenders and coffee makers! I'll likely pick one or two extras up this fall when they close em out for 50 bucks.

 

[Numboard]

I think the modded ac unit fits that bill perfectly. Just sayin lol. pretty much every ac can just be folded into a chiller!

 

[budleydoright]

I think the modded ac unit fits that bill perfectly. Just sayin lol. pretty much every ac can just be folded into a chiller!

Exactly! I like having a critical component available. Especially the device with the most moving parts. Plus, I like having these things around. I made a little custom AC out of my old one. It's cooling the air in my box now.

This is the kind of shit I think up when I start tearing things apart and have lots of stuff sitting around. I cut a slot in the top of my box, dropped the coil in. the compressor and condensor are sitting on the top. Made a shroud out of a sterlite shoe box with a 6" flange. dug up a fan and a carbon filter and the Funky cold Medina is born.

I added a 1/2 drain on the bottom and exhaust the condensation back into my nute rez. she collects 5-10 gallons a day and I still need more dehumidifying capacity

 

[reckon]

Thermoelectric cooler= $35 (used craigslist)
A/C adapter= 5amp output=$20
Used Transmission cooler from the junkyard=$25
Fountain Pump (Harbor Freight)=$10
Hoses, clamps, yada yada=$10
------------------------------------------------
Total $100

I just harvested, and for the next grow I'm sealing up the cooler area (like the clear box thingy above), getting rid of the box fan "puller" and using a blower fan with a filter screen to keep the funk out of the cooler fins.

but even like this I get the water temps in the thermoelectric cooler down to 45f, and it drops the room temp about 10-15 degrees

I did have to add a small exhaust duct for the heat that comes out of the thermo-cooler

total the thing draws an amp and a half, and drops the temps by at least 10 degrees even on hot days.

granted mine is very small, but the grow area is 4X5X8, you could easily use larger cooler/radiator/pump/fan and get more efficient.

who sez ya have to shell out $2500 for a water chiller?