on average, i'll get about 2-3 g's of quality oil off 14 g's of bud in the o'kief tube.
Butane is my friend and here is why
- Thread starter Weedsmoke4life
- Start date
Agnostic Taoist
Member
What does not kill me - only makes me stronger!
1/4 lb runs in 2 1/2' tubes, 3 cans of Vector (320ml each - so, about a liter of butane) = 10 + grams
- or -
1 pound good sugar trim (4 tubes) x 1 case of butane = 1 1/2 oz. of nectar.
- or -
1 pound good sugar trim (4 tubes) x 1 case of butane = 1 1/2 oz. of nectar.
i would say the range of weed most found, is between 10-25. so 17.5 is the average around here. less than 15 is meagre, more than 20 is great. between 15 and 20 is typical.
dude, dont take it personally, but this posting style is pretty difficult to read. Im sure you put up some good info, but I dont even read your posts because they make my head hurt.
About my results too.
havent posted in a super long time, but I will throw in my hat:
we all known that Vector, King, colibri, etc do not contain mercaptans for a few obvious reasons
1) we cant smell them (which is the entire purpose for their addition to hydrocarbon fuels in the first place, and our noses have a ridiculously high sensitivity for mercaptans, smelling them at PPB concentrations in the air)
2) the fuels that are commonly used for BHO (proper BHO) are "high quality" butane refills for expensive jet lighters.
the entire purpose of these high quality refills is to prevent damage to the sensitive internal components of jet lighters (which often cost >>$50 for cheap ones). Mercaptans and low quality hydrocarbon fuels (relatively unrefined fuels with larger percentages of different fractions of hydrocarbons) damage the capillary metal tubes and valves that are used in these lighters.
remember, I am not talking about "jet lighters" you buy in the check out stand at the gas station.
I am talking about ridiculously expensive Jet lighters you would buy at a Cigar store.
in terms of:
"but this has a low BP at atmospheric pressure and I purge in boiling water!!"
the reality of the purification of ANY chemical is that you will never remove 100% of the impurities.
even pharmaceutically pure drugs, like ibuprophen or hydrocodone or marinol or some HIV drug, etc...
you can always put them in a high resolution analytical instrument and see:
1) what catalysts were used in their preparation
2) what solvents were used in their synthesis and purification
3) what purification method was used (alumina or silica, CO2 from SFC, etc)
these impurities are present in ridiculously low, completely non-biologically active concentrations.... but they are still there.
they are present in concentrations that are of the order of picomolar or lower.
dimethyl mercury, cyanide, nerve gas, etc are not even close to toxic at those concentrations.
there will always be butane left over in the BHO.
but butane is pretty legit. butane has relatively minimal biological effects, especially at supremely low concentrations.
the main concerns related to exposure to really any aliphatic hydrocarbon (butane, propane, hexane, pentane, heptane, etc) are:
1) excessive cellular exposure
breathing in high concentrations for long periods of time
literally totally immersing your skin in the solvent
this results in defatting of the cell wall, but again, you need ridiculously excessive exposure.
2) combustion hazard.
aliphatic hydrocarbons pose no carcinogenic, teratogenic, or mutagenic risks whatsoever. they are among the safest chemicals used often in a synthetic chemical laboratory.
AROMATIC hydrocarbons like benzene, toluene, etc (which are found in gasoline, lighter fluid, naptha, etc) ARE carcinogenic.
but not simple, aliphatic hydrocarbons.
we all known that Vector, King, colibri, etc do not contain mercaptans for a few obvious reasons
1) we cant smell them (which is the entire purpose for their addition to hydrocarbon fuels in the first place, and our noses have a ridiculously high sensitivity for mercaptans, smelling them at PPB concentrations in the air)
2) the fuels that are commonly used for BHO (proper BHO) are "high quality" butane refills for expensive jet lighters.
the entire purpose of these high quality refills is to prevent damage to the sensitive internal components of jet lighters (which often cost >>$50 for cheap ones). Mercaptans and low quality hydrocarbon fuels (relatively unrefined fuels with larger percentages of different fractions of hydrocarbons) damage the capillary metal tubes and valves that are used in these lighters.
remember, I am not talking about "jet lighters" you buy in the check out stand at the gas station.
I am talking about ridiculously expensive Jet lighters you would buy at a Cigar store.
in terms of:
"but this has a low BP at atmospheric pressure and I purge in boiling water!!"
the reality of the purification of ANY chemical is that you will never remove 100% of the impurities.
even pharmaceutically pure drugs, like ibuprophen or hydrocodone or marinol or some HIV drug, etc...
you can always put them in a high resolution analytical instrument and see:
1) what catalysts were used in their preparation
2) what solvents were used in their synthesis and purification
3) what purification method was used (alumina or silica, CO2 from SFC, etc)
these impurities are present in ridiculously low, completely non-biologically active concentrations.... but they are still there.
they are present in concentrations that are of the order of picomolar or lower.
dimethyl mercury, cyanide, nerve gas, etc are not even close to toxic at those concentrations.
there will always be butane left over in the BHO.
but butane is pretty legit. butane has relatively minimal biological effects, especially at supremely low concentrations.
the main concerns related to exposure to really any aliphatic hydrocarbon (butane, propane, hexane, pentane, heptane, etc) are:
1) excessive cellular exposure
breathing in high concentrations for long periods of time
literally totally immersing your skin in the solvent
this results in defatting of the cell wall, but again, you need ridiculously excessive exposure.
2) combustion hazard.
aliphatic hydrocarbons pose no carcinogenic, teratogenic, or mutagenic risks whatsoever. they are among the safest chemicals used often in a synthetic chemical laboratory.
AROMATIC hydrocarbons like benzene, toluene, etc (which are found in gasoline, lighter fluid, naptha, etc) ARE carcinogenic.
but not simple, aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Trichgnomes
Member
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
So I made the jump into BHO a month or two ago, and honestly, it is quite incredible for lack of better description.
I have only used Vector (5X + refined) for my extractions. This is the "quality butane" you speak of. I have read that vector is a combination of N-butane, isobutane, and propane, with trace levels of impurities. I do not know what else is in it. Everyone says there is no smelling agent, but if that were the case, would it not have a smell when spraying? I think vector definitely has a smell, while I also believe it fully evaporates during purge, I just wanted to make note of the smell. If you cannot smell anything at all when you expel cigar lighter quality butane, then you should get yer nose checked.
Vector is good enough for my purposes, and I think it produces an insanely clean product.
Would I rather have 99.9% medical grade N-Butane?
Absofuckinglutely.
Just a thought...
So I made the jump into BHO a month or two ago, and honestly, it is quite incredible for lack of better description.
I have only used Vector (5X + refined) for my extractions. This is the "quality butane" you speak of. I have read that vector is a combination of N-butane, isobutane, and propane, with trace levels of impurities. I do not know what else is in it. Everyone says there is no smelling agent, but if that were the case, would it not have a smell when spraying? I think vector definitely has a smell, while I also believe it fully evaporates during purge, I just wanted to make note of the smell. If you cannot smell anything at all when you expel cigar lighter quality butane, then you should get yer nose checked.
Vector is good enough for my purposes, and I think it produces an insanely clean product.
Would I rather have 99.9% medical grade N-Butane?
Absofuckinglutely.
My non-professional two cents:
Butane most definitely has a light sweet petroleum odor, but the butane used for extractions should not have a methyl mercaptan odor, which is an odor additive to aid in leak detection.
As GL noted, trace amounts of all processing chemicals remain.
If you go a step further and look at drinking water at a ppb level, you find most of the natural elements, as you will in the fluids and tissues of our bodies.
Actually, we depend upon the presence of small amounts of some of the pernicious elements, like iron, copper, arsenic, chromium, etc, in our bodies to sustain life.
There is an ongoing skirmish between chemical extraction aficionados and detractors because of that issue, but in watching that controversy unfold, it seems to me that a salient point continues to be under discussed.
Note the concentration present vis a vis their Thresh Hold Limit Values and Lethal Concentration or Lethal Dose-50 ratings (50% dead).
Paying specific attention to the unit of measurement is key, because trace material given in parts per billionth (PPB) are 1000 times less than the parts per millionth (PPM) that toxic data is most often presented in. Let me come back to that point in my denouement.
With all substances, the poison is in the dosage. Everything is pernicious to life at some level; some just don't take as much as others.
Oxygen is lethal at greater than 75% molar. It absolutely will kill you dead, yet how many people are concerned about it, given that it is only about 21% of the atmosphere.
Close to the other end of the scale is Hydrogen cyanide, which killed 50% of the rats at a concentration of .000037 grams per kilogram of body weight (LC-50 of 3.7 milligrams/kilogram-1)
All manufacturers must provide a Material Safety Data Sheet for their chemicals. A review of the MSDS sheet tells how much of that substance it took per kilogram of body weight to kill half the rats, as well as any of its carcinogenic, teratagenic, mutagenic, environmental, fire safety, etc, concerns.
I never use any chemical in a process without reading the MSDS from that manufacturer, because sometimes they put stuff in it, which shows up in the MSDS, but not the label.
It also puts the battle over trace amounts of a chemical into perspective.
The LC-50 (lethal concentration that kills 50% of test subjects) for N-Butane for instance is a concentration of 658 grams butane per cubic meter air inhaled, with the toxic effect being asphyxiation from lack of oxygen.
The second greatest danger is frostbite. Because of its low boiling point and low toxicity, it is also known as Freon 600 and is used as a refrigerant, as well as in food preparation as previously noted.
It has a Threshold Limit Value of 800 ppm, which is the upper limit that a person can be exposed to in their breathing air for 8 hours without exhausting all engineering avenues to remediate those levels and then relying on personal protection.
The 3/4/5X filtration is to remove oleaginous waxes, which as GL noted, clog the precision orifices of expensive lighters.
Oleaginous waxes in petroleum are paraffin, and the MSDS for paraffin shows no known toxic effects and a TLV of .002 grams/M3 for breathing air, but it is non toxic enough that no LD or LC-50 has been established, nor are any concerns regarding carcinogenic, teratagenic, mutagenic, or environmental listed.
Methyl Mercaptan on the other hand, has a TLV of .5ppm and an inhalation rat LC 50 of 675 ppm. It is a central nervous system depressant and causes pulmonary edema.
It is added to butane to make leaks more detectable due to its odor threshold of only 2 ppb.
Therein lies the first clue.
If it has a TLV of .5 ppm, that means a concentration below 500 ppb exposure for 8 hours does not require remediation or personal respiratory protection.
With an odor threshold of 2 ppb, at the Thresh Hold Limits of 500 ppb, it would be readily noticeable.
So, to put it in perspective, if we can’t smell or taste the mercaps, we are no where near threshold limits by at least 250 times.
Butane and paraffin are relatively non toxic to start with and pose no threat at levels below sensory threshold.
There is no evidence that there is an accumulative effect over time or that it is a carcinogen, teratagen, or mutagen.
So the rhetorical questions that I leave you with is, given the actual numbers, just how serious a threat to health is butane and how concerned should we be?
How great a crusade against butane, to save our brothers and sisters is justified by well intended non professional (not qualified by training or experience), and non participating (don’t use it/ain’t going to) bystanders?
Butane most definitely has a light sweet petroleum odor, but the butane used for extractions should not have a methyl mercaptan odor, which is an odor additive to aid in leak detection.
As GL noted, trace amounts of all processing chemicals remain.
If you go a step further and look at drinking water at a ppb level, you find most of the natural elements, as you will in the fluids and tissues of our bodies.
Actually, we depend upon the presence of small amounts of some of the pernicious elements, like iron, copper, arsenic, chromium, etc, in our bodies to sustain life.
There is an ongoing skirmish between chemical extraction aficionados and detractors because of that issue, but in watching that controversy unfold, it seems to me that a salient point continues to be under discussed.
Note the concentration present vis a vis their Thresh Hold Limit Values and Lethal Concentration or Lethal Dose-50 ratings (50% dead).
Paying specific attention to the unit of measurement is key, because trace material given in parts per billionth (PPB) are 1000 times less than the parts per millionth (PPM) that toxic data is most often presented in. Let me come back to that point in my denouement.
With all substances, the poison is in the dosage. Everything is pernicious to life at some level; some just don't take as much as others.
Oxygen is lethal at greater than 75% molar. It absolutely will kill you dead, yet how many people are concerned about it, given that it is only about 21% of the atmosphere.
Close to the other end of the scale is Hydrogen cyanide, which killed 50% of the rats at a concentration of .000037 grams per kilogram of body weight (LC-50 of 3.7 milligrams/kilogram-1)
All manufacturers must provide a Material Safety Data Sheet for their chemicals. A review of the MSDS sheet tells how much of that substance it took per kilogram of body weight to kill half the rats, as well as any of its carcinogenic, teratagenic, mutagenic, environmental, fire safety, etc, concerns.
I never use any chemical in a process without reading the MSDS from that manufacturer, because sometimes they put stuff in it, which shows up in the MSDS, but not the label.
It also puts the battle over trace amounts of a chemical into perspective.
The LC-50 (lethal concentration that kills 50% of test subjects) for N-Butane for instance is a concentration of 658 grams butane per cubic meter air inhaled, with the toxic effect being asphyxiation from lack of oxygen.
The second greatest danger is frostbite. Because of its low boiling point and low toxicity, it is also known as Freon 600 and is used as a refrigerant, as well as in food preparation as previously noted.
It has a Threshold Limit Value of 800 ppm, which is the upper limit that a person can be exposed to in their breathing air for 8 hours without exhausting all engineering avenues to remediate those levels and then relying on personal protection.
The 3/4/5X filtration is to remove oleaginous waxes, which as GL noted, clog the precision orifices of expensive lighters.
Oleaginous waxes in petroleum are paraffin, and the MSDS for paraffin shows no known toxic effects and a TLV of .002 grams/M3 for breathing air, but it is non toxic enough that no LD or LC-50 has been established, nor are any concerns regarding carcinogenic, teratagenic, mutagenic, or environmental listed.
Methyl Mercaptan on the other hand, has a TLV of .5ppm and an inhalation rat LC 50 of 675 ppm. It is a central nervous system depressant and causes pulmonary edema.
It is added to butane to make leaks more detectable due to its odor threshold of only 2 ppb.
Therein lies the first clue.
If it has a TLV of .5 ppm, that means a concentration below 500 ppb exposure for 8 hours does not require remediation or personal respiratory protection.
With an odor threshold of 2 ppb, at the Thresh Hold Limits of 500 ppb, it would be readily noticeable.
So, to put it in perspective, if we can’t smell or taste the mercaps, we are no where near threshold limits by at least 250 times.
Butane and paraffin are relatively non toxic to start with and pose no threat at levels below sensory threshold.
There is no evidence that there is an accumulative effect over time or that it is a carcinogen, teratagen, or mutagen.
So the rhetorical questions that I leave you with is, given the actual numbers, just how serious a threat to health is butane and how concerned should we be?
How great a crusade against butane, to save our brothers and sisters is justified by well intended non professional (not qualified by training or experience), and non participating (don’t use it/ain’t going to) bystanders?
Weedsmoke4life
Member
Vector is the best quality IMO, however i have used similar 3x+ filtered fuel and had great results. As far as weight ratios are concerned in my small batch i get 15% return of product from my starting material 7/1 ratio prob~
doing some talking in the stoner community i have heard some cool methods using dry ice to get the butane to fully evaporate at an accelerated rate.
doing some talking in the stoner community i have heard some cool methods using dry ice to get the butane to fully evaporate at an accelerated rate.
bravo gray wolf
