What's new

Extracting stem oil for HAO topical

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
In an attempt to use all of sweet Mary’s charms, I have been experimenting with extracting meds from all of her body parts, and we finally had some nice weather so that I could conclude some of my stem oil extraction experiments.

My previous experiments showed that stem oil was low in euphoric properties, but provided significant analgesic and sedative effects. Prior to my attempts at direct oil extraction, I had only cooked stems in canola oil for use as a topical or in cannacaps.

My first pulverized sample was provided by an associate, that she had prepared in a coffee grinder, which I extracted using hexane extraction, and found it to provid stellar analgesic and sedative properties.

Given the exciting implications of that, I ran a series of experiments involving pulverizing stem material using an electric chipper and a hammer mill and then doing extraction using butane, hexane, ethanol, ISO, and denatured alcohol, looking for a viable production process.

To verify that most of the oils and resins come from the surface of the stems, not from the interior, I sanded some central stalks using steel wool, before grinding them and doing an oil extraction using denatured alcohol.

From that extraction I obtained such a very small quantity of vegetable oil, waxes, and/or resin, that I have not been able to test the properties of it, other than note that it is light green, relatively bland tasting, and slightly aromatic. Not enough material from a gallon sized extraction to even test.

I also did a hexane extraction of both the fines, as well as the coarse ground material and fiber to determine how much material was available and as you can see from the attached picture of the two Pyrex dishes, that there was very little oil from the chunks and fiber in the dish on the right.

I therefore sieved and processed only the fines from the stem material that I had previously ground, using a couple of pasta strainers and did extractions using ISO and denatured alcohol.

After cooking off the alcohol, I re-dissolved the concrete produced into 190 proof ethanol and allowed the flocculent to settle out, before decanting, filtering, and cooking that off as well.

There was minimal precipitant from the ISO, but extensive precipitant from the denatured alcohol, ostensibly because of its methanol content.

Both the ISO and the denatured alcohol produced a stiff clear transparent dark green absolute after processing with ethanol, which I turned into a topical anointing oil, using my standard recipe.

The oil tests as effective as topical made from leaf, providing pain relief within a few minutes. As far as I have been able to determine, there is no commercial product available that works as well as cannabis oil in a HAO topical.

To extract the oil I placed the pulverized and sieved material in a gallon jar and covered it with a couple of inches of alcohol. I shook it periodically for the next 10 minutes, and then decanted the alcohol through a wire strainer and a restaurant sized coffee filter, squeezing the plant material to recover as much alcohol as possible.

After filtration, I made no attempts to recover the alcohol, but put it in a stainless Bain Marie container, which I placed in a 250F oil pot and cooked off the alcohol. When it was bubble free, I added 190 proof Everclear and washed it out of the pot.

I placed that alcohol in a canning jar and allowed to sit overnight, before decanting and filtering it again using a coffee filter. I then cooked it off, to leave the absolute, to which I added the remaining HAO ingredients.

I am again accumulating stems for a confirmation run, but it appears that pulverizing the stems and sieving out the fines for processing is a viable way to cost effectively produce a stellar topical pain reliever from stems.

That is an important issue at the moment, because I currently have more demands for topical than my total monthly leaf supply for all meds. After passing out samples for testing, everyone who tested it wants more.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
More pictures. Half gallon on right is stem extraction and the one on the left from roots.

The jar with gunk in the bottom, is what precipitated out when I redissolved denatured extract in Everclear.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Last picture of fines and coarse extraction using hexane.
 

ElRubio

Active member
Veteran
Cool experiment Gray Wolf
i found some interesant properties in the product. thank you for expand the possibilities :)
best vibes!:thank you:
 

Barnt

Member
Can you post your recipe/process for making your topical? I've always wanted to make one, just didn't know how.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Can you post your recipe/process for making your topical? I've always wanted to make one, just didn't know how.

For a topical, I use the following recipe:

10 grams cannabis oil from bud, leaf, or stem
8 grams virgin unrefined coconut oil
.7 grams cinnamon bark oil from Newdirectionsaromatics.com
.7 grams cinnamon leaf oil “ ‘’ ‘’
.7 grams liquid gum myrrh “ “ “
2 grams Emu oil (optional) from Thirddaybotanical.com

I add all the other ingredients to the hot cannabis oil after cooking off the solvent and I stir it together while sitting in ~ 200F oil bath until fully mixed. Cool and use as is.
 

Nickog

Member
For a topical, I use the following recipe:

10 grams cannabis oil from bud, leaf, or stem
8 grams virgin unrefined coconut oil
.7 grams cinnamon bark oil from Newdirectionsaromatics.com
.7 grams cinnamon leaf oil “ ‘’ ‘’
.7 grams liquid gum myrrh “ “ “
2 grams Emu oil (optional) from Thirddaybotanical.com

I add all the other ingredients to the hot cannabis oil after cooking off the solvent and I stir it together while sitting in ~ 200F oil bath until fully mixed. Cool and use as is.

Hi Grey Wolf, I have tried this a few times now and I guess I am doing something wrong! I beleve my errors come from the processing of the oil. If I start with a QWISO, and heat it down to a tar like quality, I add water and see a bit of the solvent rise to the top of the water. I heat that till it is back to a tar like, or to a hard candy like substance. I can't seem to get it to mix with the coconut oil.
Is the tar like substance what you are referring to as the 'concrete'? Should I always re-dissolve it in ethanl? When evaporating the ethanol, is there a stop point so it does not turn into a tar?
Perhaps the concept of concrete and absolute are my source of confusion.
 

jump117

Well-known member
Veteran
… If I start with a QWISO, …
Is the tar like substance what you are referring to as the 'concrete'? Should I always re-dissolve it in ethanl? When evaporating the ethanol, is there a stop point so it does not turn into a tar?
Perhaps the concept of concrete and absolute are my source of confusion.
Nickog , read the definitions plz. Concrete starts from non-polar extraction from fresh material.
Absolute (fragrance)

First, an organic solvent, such as hexane, is added to the plant material to help extract the hydrophobic compounds.
This solution is filtered and concentrated by distillation to produce a waxy mass called concrete.
The lower molecular weight, fragrant compounds are extracted from the concrete into ethanol.
When the ethanol evaporates, an oil -the absolute -is left behind.

I hope Gunnaknow would not oppose the quotes from the UK420 -

[quote =gunnaknow]
OLEORESIN
The essential oil and aromatic non-volatiles present in dried herbs and spices are extracted with a volatile organic solvent. The resulting solvent-free product is being known as oleoresin. Oleoresins also contain substances with colouring properties.

CONCRETE
Concretes are obtained from fresh plant material by non-polar solvent extraction. When solvent is removed, the resulting product contains not only volatile fragrance materials, but also a large proportion of non-volatile substances including waxy compounds.

ABSOLUTE
Absolutes are obtained by preparing a solution of concrete in alcohol. The solution is then chilled and filtered to remove the waxes. Finally alcohol is removed by distillation to produce the absolute.
Most aroma compounds are oil soluble. Therefore, petroleum ether is used as the solvent to extract plant aroma. The extract after removal of the solvent is called concrete. Concrete may contain large portions of wax and fatty acids, and is further purified by ethyl alcohol extraction. The product is called absolute. The nonvolatile flavoring constituents of herbs and spices are recoverable by extraction. In practise, a solvent is chosen that dissolves both the essential oil and the nonvolatiles present. The resulting solvent-free product is known as oleoresin. A disadvantage of the oleoresins is that they are very viscous and thick, making them difficult to handle or to mix in processing operations.
[/quote]
 

Nickog

Member
So, I see I have two problems, using dried material, and not using distillation. Is there any way to make a workable substance using oleoresin?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So, I see I have two problems, using dried material, and not using distillation. Is there any way to make a workable substance using oleoresin?

Yes, and as Jump tactfully illuminates, I sometimes incorrectly use the words oleoresin and concrete interchangeably.

If I use iso or denatured with methanol to do an extraction from dried material, I cook that down in a 240/250F oil bath until the large bubbles stop and then add 190 proof ethanol directly to the pot. I then swirl it around and scrub the inside of the pot with it to wash off runs and films and decant it into a small canning jar or beaker. I add a little more alcohol to the pot and do a second rinse, combining the alcohol rinses.

I stick that in the freezer and let it settle, after which I decant the liquid and filter it.

I cook or distill off the ethanol until the oil is quiescent, weigh the container and oil, add the above ingredients and set back into the hot oil bath.

I stir it until it is well mixed and pour it out into a wide mouth 1/2 pint fruit jar for use. I like the large mouth jar because sometimes the oil will be liquid and sometimes slightly solid, as the outside temperature varies.

GW
 

jump117

Well-known member
Veteran
Yes, and as Jump tactfully illuminates, I sometimes incorrectly use the words oleoresin and concrete interchangeably.

Apologizing for the pedantry, I believe that strict compliance with the terminology helps to prevent misunderstanding.
 
S

slave4sail

Agree with the poster above, great thread! Big ups for sharing with the community. :)
 

Nickog

Member
Yes, and as Jump tactfully illuminates, I sometimes incorrectly use the words oleoresin and concrete interchangeably.

If I use iso or denatured with methanol to do an extraction from dried material, I cook that down in a 240/250F oil bath until the large bubbles stop and then add 190 proof ethanol directly to the pot. I then swirl it around and scrub the inside of the pot with it to wash off runs and films and decant it into a small canning jar or beaker. I add a little more alcohol to the pot and do a second rinse, combining the alcohol rinses.

I stick that in the freezer and let it settle, after which I decant the liquid and filter it.


I cook or distill off the ethanol until the oil is quiescent, weigh the container and oil, add the above ingredients and set back into the hot oil bath.

I stir it until it is well mixed and pour it out into a wide mouth 1/2 pint fruit jar for use. I like the large mouth jar because sometimes the oil will be liquid and sometimes slightly solid, as the outside temperature varies.

GW

Sorry to ask so many questions but...
If you start with ISO and dried material, how much material do you start with to yield the 10 grams of oil?

Can you expand on the next steps? Oil bath? About how much ethanol? How long do you wait to move it to the next container? About how much more ethanol? At this point, would 70% ethanol work? Can you over-cook the oil?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Sorry to ask so many questions but...
If you start with ISO and dried material, how much material do you start with to yield the 10 grams of oil?

Can you expand on the next steps? Oil bath? About how much ethanol? How long do you wait to move it to the next container? About how much more ethanol? At this point, would 70% ethanol work? Can you over-cook the oil?

I've never weighed the material before hand, because of moisture content and stems. I dry leaf material on a cookie sheet at 200F, run it through a pasta strainer to remove the stems and leaf veins, and then I weigh it.

Off the top of my head, I probably average about 7% oil by weight from fan leaves, 12/16% from sweet trim and popcorn, and 18/25% from bud.

It varies quite a bit by strain and some of the pros may be getting more.

Ballpark, 10 grams from fan leaves would require about 143 grams dry pulverized material, and from bud 40 to 56 grams.

I recently froze some fresh bud and extracted it using chilled BHO and the equivalent dry yield was in about the middle of the same ball park.

When I say oil bath, I am refering to a pot of hot oil that I set the container of cannabis oil into like a double boiler. I use an electric fondue pot with a jar lid ring in the bottom to isolate the pot from the bottom. See attached picture.

Technically you need around 8 to 10 to 1 dillution, but in truth I just splash in enough Everclear to do the job. I use more than I have to, just because it makes cleanup of the pot easier.

70% ethanol would leave behind some of the undesirables, but would pick up all the water solubles again, where 95% picks up very little.

It would be very easy to distill the 70% to get rid of some of the water if 95% ethanol isn't available to you.

THC converts to CBN as a function of time and temperature. It happens faster when it is hot, so if I was trying to maintain high THC and low CBN, I would do it as cold and quickly as possible, probably using vacuum distillation.

For a topical where it is the CBD and CBN that is ostensibly doing the work, it is less critical and maybe even beneficial, but I never knowingly cook anything any longer or hotter than I absolutely have to, so as to achieve my desired end.
 

Attachments

  • Cooking off the alcohol.jpg
    Cooking off the alcohol.jpg
    64.1 KB · Views: 19

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top