The RDWC project.

[greenwithenvy]

Nute Burn maybe? Day 36

Nute Burn maybe? Day 36

Should I defoliate again and if so how? The fan leaves are small. Does that look like nute burn in the 1st pic, hard curling leaves? Ive only changed out the system once should I do it again before the end? Is that the same as flushing?

ph ppm date
5.66 1760 6/27
5.59 1780 6/28
5.60 1790 6/29

 

[Japanfreakier]

Wow, this thread is a good read, I got solid up to 10 and skipped a little here and there so if this has been covered I'm sorry

I wouldn't stick your rockwool seedlings in the aero-cloner if I were you in the future, it can stay too wet and cause damage to the stem. Rockwool sucks! imo

For the aero-cloner, figure 12~14 days before the roots are long enough to transplant into dwc.

It's so nice to see somebody do their homework & has building skills. Great construction job and DIY approach on the chiller.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Nute strength looks to be pretty high.

I've never seen discoloration like that before... but maybe a post in the infirmary will help? (My first thought is that you may be over feeding...)

Do you have a passive res topping off your active? (i.e. what's keeping your bucket levels even?)

Nutes ppm climbing suggest more water uptake than... Do you know what your conversion factor is from EC... if it is a .7, you're feeding at some of the highest rates the biggest feeders eat at... if it is a .5 conversion, you are feeding at an EC of 3.4 which is crazy high.

If I was in your room, and not too lazy to get off my ass, my first response would be a res change with just pH'd water and keep and eye on everything for a few days... and use the plant's response to guide your feeding program. Depending on your conversion, your nutes might be way too hot.

I think I read your whole thread, but may have missed what you're feeding. A few people--running Lucas--have mentioned that nute add-backs are sufficient and res change outs are unnecessary. The Lucas formula allows for that... other schedules do not. Certain components in a feeding program buffer other components... and as this balance changes through plant metabolizing various components of your solution, the concentrations of various components change and can result in lock-out...

Have you seen continued growth? If not, pH and ppm stability may be an indicator lock-out and metabolic inactivity.

Other big deal: What do your roots look like?

Oh...

A "FLUSH" is an effort to remove various nutrients/salts from the growth system so that the plant completely digest stored energy reserves and has a 'cleaner' finished product. Various methods are used by various individuals for various reasons related to the growing system... But in general, some version of a straight water is pushed through the system to wash out salt build up from the medium and strip nutrient availability from the plant (forcing it to metabolize it's internal reserve)...

 

[SumDumGuy]

Should I defoliate again and if so how? The fan leaves are small. Does that look like nute burn in the 1st pic, hard curling leaves? Ive only changed out the system once should I do it again before the end? Is that the same as flushing?

ph ppm date
5.66 1760 6/27
5.59 1780 6/28
5.60 1790 6/29

Hey GWE just a bit of Nute burn but they still look GREAT.. You're in hydro so a flush will be easy and they'll react to it within hours. Once your runoff hits near the same ppm as your start water then you're set. After 3 days or so you can go back to nutes bro. Hit 'em with 1200 to 1300.

You see 1700 is fine bro but if you haven't been flushing then it's more like 2300 on the root level since they are building up there. I just flushed recently so that I can flower and boy was I headed for problems. I didn't realized it but I had a major salt buildup in there. My runoff was coming out at 4000 bro lol... Seriously. Now they are all under 300PPM. Mid flowering I will flush again and then again 2 weeks before harvest.. No sweat bro they will continue to bloom fiercely..

 

[superusa]

Nute strength looks to be pretty high.

I've never seen discoloration like that before... but maybe a post in the infirmary will help? (My first thought is that you may be over feeding...)

Do you have a passive res topping off your active? (i.e. what's keeping your bucket levels even?)

Nutes ppm climbing suggest more water uptake than... Do you know what your conversion factor is from EC... if it is a .7, you're feeding at some of the highest rates the biggest feeders eat at... if it is a .5 conversion, you are feeding at an EC of 3.4 which is crazy high.

If I was in your room, and not too lazy to get off my ass, my first response would be a res change with just pH'd water and keep and eye on everything for a few days... and use the plant's response to guide your feeding program. Depending on your conversion, your nutes might be way too hot.

I think I read your whole thread, but may have missed what you're feeding. A few people--running Lucas--have mentioned that nute add-backs are sufficient and res change outs are unnecessary. The Lucas formula allows for that... other schedules do not. Certain components in a feeding program buffer other components... and as this balance changes through plant metabolizing various components of your solution, the concentrations of various components change and can result in lock-out...

Have you seen continued growth? If not, pH and ppm stability may be an indicator lock-out and metabolic inactivity.

Other big deal: What do your roots look like?

Oh...

A "FLUSH" is an effort to remove various nutrients/salts from the growth system so that the plant completely digest stored energy reserves and has a 'cleaner' finished product. Various methods are used by various individuals for various reasons related to the growing system... But in general, some version of a straight water is pushed through the system to wash out salt build up from the medium and strip nutrient availability from the plant (forcing it to metabolize it's internal reserve)...

+1 especially seems like he is feeding at high rates.... agree with everything else too, except I would probably only run fresh water for 24 hours before adding nutes again. I would try the 1100-1200 range @.7

Seems like the solution has swung alot. Tends to result in a shortened res life. Drain, refill with water, run 24 hours, add nutes 1100-1200ppm and pH proper.

 

[SumDumGuy]

+1 especially seems like he is feeding at high rates.... agree with everything else too, except I would probably only run fresh water for 24 hours before adding nutes again. I would try the 1100-1200 range @.7

Seems like the solution has swung alot. Tends to result in a shortened res life. Drain, refill with water, run 24 hours, add nutes 1100-1200ppm and pH proper.

You're right about the flush super but a hydro flush is very similar to a soil flush in where you have to let the fresh water run for a few hours and then test the TDS again. When you add clean water the TDS will be high again after 12 hours. Here you dump again and refill with pH balanced water. You have to continue doing this till the water is stable. Generally after 48 to 72 hours the sticky salts will be diluted enough to runoff. Once everything is stable nutes are a must. Being in a hydro setup the nutrients need to be available for proper upkeep. Even if he hits them with 1700 they will bounce back fine because what he had before was not really 1700 but more like 2300+. I would still hit them low though. 1100 to 1200 would be fine. That full flush is a must.

 

[superusa]

You're right about the flush super but a hydro flush is very similar to a soil flush in where you have to let the fresh water run for a few hours and then test the TDS again. When you add clean water the TDS will be high again after 12 hours. Here you dump again and refill with pH balanced water. You have to continue doing this till the water is stable. Generally after 48 to 72 hours the sticky salts will be diluted enough to runoff. Once everything is stable nutes are a must. Being in a hydro setup the nutrients need to be available for proper upkeep. Even if he hits them with 1700 they will bounce back fine because what he had before was not really 1700 but more like 2300+. I would still hit them low though. 1100 to 1200 would be fine. That full flush is a must.

He is growing in DWC so what you are saying doesn't apply. What you are refering to is the buildup of salts which is something that occurs in systems that grow in a medium rockwool dice, soil, etc. That doesn't happen in DWC. When you test tds in dwc what you see is what you get.

 

[SumDumGuy]

He is growing in DWC so what you are saying doesn't apply. What you are refering to is the buildup of salts which is something that occurs in systems that grow in a medium rockwool dice, soil, etc. That doesn't happen in DWC. When you test tds in dwc what you see is what you get.

Super wait.. That's my point brozack.. I come from DWC and I always ran 2000PPM on average. The salts stick to the root mass as well as the medium. I'm referring to a root mass flush my brother. If you drain the res and add fresh water then the salts from the roots begin to dissolve and you will see a salinity increase in the water.

You are absolutely correct in what you are saying but I am an aggressive feeder and you'll be surprised what can collect in the center of that root mass when the currents are nearly null. Everything applies in DWC and all form of hydro. Trust and try it. I tell you this from first hand experience. Just full the res with fresh water. Fuck it forget 12 hours and run it for 24 as you stated initially. I guarantee that the solution will go up over 500% his original start TDS just by whats in the root mass. I also recommend flushing the hydroten just by taking some water and pouring it into the opening as you flush.

 

[greenwithenvy]

Wow, this thread is a good read, I got solid up to 10 and skipped a little here and there so if this has been covered I'm sorry

I wouldn't stick your rockwool seedlings in the aero-cloner if I were you in the future, it can stay too wet and cause damage to the stem. Rockwool sucks! imo

For the aero-cloner, figure 12~14 days before the roots are long enough to transplant into dwc.

It's so nice to see somebody do their homework & has building skills. Great construction job and DIY approach on the chiller.

Thanks alot for your comments. I dont think i will be using the cloner much more. Im making a smaller version of the RDWC for veg.

 

[greenwithenvy]

Thanks alot super and sum. I love when u guys differ about certain topics. I will be getting some more nutes today and will start flushing it out tonight. Thank again

 

[SumDumGuy]

Thanks alot super and sum. I love when u guys differ about certain topics. I will be getting some more nutes today and will start flushing it out tonight. Thank again

My pleasure GWE and again your plants are SOLID. It's not a bad burn at all. More like a light sun burn at the beach

Most of what I was suggesting was in the realm of just straight clean water. Since you're already going to the store can you check and see if they have GH FloraKleen or Botanicare Clearex? Both these solutions are safe to use in your grow and will allow you to clear any salts on one application as opposed to waiting for the salts to dissolve and repeating the process. I might pick up the FloraKleen just to make my shop an all GH shop..

 

[Weird Jimmy]

Hey man, send that cloner back my way. I want to try and play around with it.

 

[superusa]

Super wait.. That's my point brozack.. I come from DWC and I always ran 2000PPM on average. The salts stick to the root mass as well as the medium. I'm referring to a root mass flush my brother. If you drain the res and add fresh water then the salts from the roots begin to dissolve and you will see a salinity increase in the water.

You are absolutely correct in what you are saying but I am an aggressive feeder and you'll be surprised what can collect in the center of that root mass when the currents are nearly null. Everything applies in DWC and all form of hydro. Trust and try it. I tell you this from first hand experience. Just full the res with fresh water. Fuck it forget 12 hours and run it for 24 as you stated initially. I guarantee that the solution will go up over 500% his original start TDS just by whats in the root mass. I also recommend flushing the hydroten just by taking some water and pouring it into the opening as you flush.

Okay okay...i will try this when I fill for my final flush, i will drain nutes, fill with fresh water (my tap is 120ppm@.7) and then check it the next day. I hadn't considered nutes building up in the root mass so i will check it out. This could be a reason why alot of people advocate florakleen and the like during final flush....
might also have to do with what kind of nutes you are using as to whether or not they build up. Interesting though....

I still stick to what I said about what your meter says is what you get in DWC. It's not like soil or a medium based grow where you check runoff and your acutal TDS is nearly double the reading of the runoff. In soil you pour in 0ppm RO water, and then you chek theck runoff. If it says 500ppm, that is really much more like 1000ppm in the soil. Obviously not like that in DWC since you are sticking your meter directly into the solution.

Opposing views and debate are good and bring progress in the community. So long as we keep it mature (you have seen some of the other threads around here debating things in an ugly manner) and clean I am all for it.

 

[SumDumGuy]

Okay okay...i will try this when I fill for my final flush, i will drain nutes, fill with fresh water (my tap is 120ppm@.7) and then check it the next day. I hadn't considered nutes building up in the root mass so i will check it out. This could be a reason why alot of people advocate florakleen and the like during final flush....
might also have to do with what kind of nutes you are using as to whether or not they build up. Interesting though....

I still stick to what I said about what your meter says is what you get in DWC. It's not like soil or a medium based grow where you check runoff and your acutal TDS is nearly double the reading of the runoff. In soil you pour in 0ppm RO water, and then you chek theck runoff. If it says 500ppm, that is really much more like 1000ppm in the soil. Obviously not like that in DWC since you are sticking your meter directly into the solution.

Opposing views and debate are good and bring progress in the community. So long as we keep it mature (you have seen some of the other threads around here debating things in an ugly manner) and clean I am all for it.

A Super response from a Super guy

 

[greenwithenvy]

I will test this tonight. When I put in new tap I will test and hour after and then again in the AM. My water temp is almost always whatever temp I put in to start. It just stays constant. Should I just keep it @ 68? Or can I go lower? Ill take piics of my readings tonight and tomorrow.

 

[hazydreams]

i also have a flush comming up soon. ill be testing this to see jsut how much is built up in my rootmass...

 

[Japanfreakier]

You're right about the flush super but a hydro flush is very similar to a soil flush in where you have to let the fresh water run for a few hours and then test the TDS again.

What some people call a flush in hydro I call dumping your rez and mixing a new batch.

 

[greenwithenvy]

What some people call a flush in hydro I call dumping your rez and mixing a new batch.

Me to. LOL

 

[superusa]

Me to. LOL

Well I agree, I only call it a flush if it is the final 2 weeks where you run straight water or if you are doing a florashield or h2o2 flush when they have res problems.....I only recommended OP run straight water for a day was because he was feeding so high and to give them a couple hours to recover.

 

[SumDumGuy]

Hey GWE,
What are those numbers