root circling in 5gal. pots

[haveaNOSday]

I'm 17 days into flower and this is my 3rd grow with these pots and from everything i've learned like less nutes is more ect. When I induce flowering I cannot stop the roots of my plants from bunching and twisting up and at the bottom of the pots even when feeding with just water. Both sets of leaves are turning yelow and brownspotting. I'm wondering if it's because I went from germination straight to the 5gallon pots. should I be graduating the pots as the plants get bigger? can this slowdown the root growth?

there is 2 strains growing cheemo from clones and serious seeds white russian grown from seed. under 1000w hps both are root bound and the leaves from both are wilting? So I know it's not genetics.

This morning I used one to test and I removed the roots and soil from the pot and ripped the shit out of the roots and removed at least 50% of the roots and re planted with fresh soil (half peat half perlite) and yes all rh, temps and ph are good.

I really beleive that this is most of everyones problem around here who grows in pots. nute lockout i'm starting to belive is caused by root circling. Air pots seem good by i think i'm going to switch to hydro.

 

[xcrispi]

I'm betting part of it's got to do w/ your not transplanting progressivly , and a side order of peat - peat moss sux . It breaks down over time and creates humic acid if I'm not mistaken = PH issues , and possible lok outs . Try beer cups > 1 gal pots >3 gal pots > 5 gal pots so new substrate / media is being added over n over . Eliminates the possibility of build ups , the peat breaking down all at the same time and PH issues . Try coir and those Air Pots = I fell in love - best of both worlds - Hydro / Soiless kinda both simutaniously .
Crispi

 

[haveaNOSday]

im going to see whats happens in a few days after ripping off the root bind. it will deffenitly do something i'm sure. But is there any confirmed way for them recover?
and flushing is bullshit imo I tried it last grow and all it did was wasted over an hour of my life and makes a huge mess. I'm pretty discouraged lucky I have a W.R mum because I'm tempted to pull the plug and start over. Oh yeah i just remembered the clones I bought off my guy and those were graduated up from small pots. Now their in 5gal's and still wilting.

 

[xcrispi]

When my moms get rootbound I use a big ass serated knife , pull the roots outa the pots and cut them so they look like they've been pulled out of a square container and added fresh medium and put them right back in their original containers . Might wanna try that also in the future - less shock verses rippin the rootball apart - but In doing so you got to see the actual inner structure / make up of the whole root system and got to see if there was any weak / less dense spots / circling etc.... I've gotten away with doing that more or less also when putting plants from soiless to hydro systems , shaking off as much of the old medium as possible , but they look pissed for a few after .
Good luck
Crispi

 

[haveaNOSday]

yes very interesting to see the root system. and yes there was concentrated spots of soil and roots. I also heard of running square pots and cutting off the edges thats where I got the idea of doing it during flower. It's weird because they still produce nice big buds that smoke pretty good too.

 

[haveaNOSday]

well I been researching all day now and I'm actually having almost exact symptoms of root gnats or aphids but I have no way to magnify. I will pick up a magnifing glass soon.

 

[grapeman]

Although I don't have nute lockout due to root circling, and I know humics tend to keep ph in balance and not the other way around (see the "Organics for Beginners" thread and learn about humics and dolomite), I too have been thinking about the roots.

What I did is order a batch of the smallest air pots (30 for $60 delivered). I do all my veging in them now. I transplant into 3 gal regular pots for flower (8 weeks). By developing the root structure early on in veg, I think it has helped the plants weather the next 8 weeks in a non air breathing pot. Roots are happier. Product is better.

 

[haveaNOSday]

I checked my plants 24 hrs later and the test plat has not changed even 1% ill give it some more time

 

[knak]

Stop the root circles with weed cloth, bought at home depot for cheap. Worked very well for me. Line the sides and bottom with a single layer of weed cloth (the stuff I bought was grey and looked like spun cotton candy laid flat). The root tips will stop at this layer, it's called air pruning, and it will increase the lateral rooting which is what brings bigger buds.
Your problems might well be solved with this cloth, mine were. It cost me about 12 dollars us for the cloth and I just cut out a strip long enough to go around the inside of the bucket and a round piece to fit the bottom. Doesn't have to be exact but any place not covered by the cloth will see roots escape and start to circle. When roots do this the nutrients pool and cause much trouble. With the cloth and proper lateral rooting your soil grows will be much prettier.

 

[haveaNOSday]

I will deffenitly learn more about this.

do you think it's possible to pull a recovery, if lets say I tried this?

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

The problem with skipping increments is not so much the roots circling at the bottom as it is the huge area of unexplored soilmix above the roots blocking O2 from getting down to them. When cannabis is growing fast, it needs a lot of O2 at the roots. By potting up in many increments, not only do we create a better rootball, but we also have a chance to remove some of the mix from around the tops of the roots with each move. By setting the plant higher each time, more of the total amount of mix goes below where the roots need it while still maintaining a small enough container that maximum O2 is available at the roots.

 

[haveaNOSday]

Increment potting thats what we'll call it...well I will at least.

Anyways very interesting^^^^

ummm I,ve been downstairs all day cleaning and doing the usual G.O. work and I made 9 clones from my W.R. mother. This time I am "Incrementing" them and this will be another test. I was also checkin out my friends grow and he is running coco husks. I'm really feelin this,I'm also feelin either, just pure perlite, or low ph flowering soil, made for like bluberries and shit, for the 9 clones I planted today. You guys down with this?

I'm lovin all the input, I'm learning alot thanks to you guys.

 

[haveaNOSday]

well 48hrs later the one I ripped the roots from has still not changed so at least she's suppressed the others seem to have remained the same aswell,since only feeding water.

Something I failed to mention is that I nuted 1/4 streanght Advanced nuterients big bud when I flipped to 12/12, something I should have mentioned in the begining. But the cheemo strains I have seems to be suffering less compaired to the W.R kind. I'm starting to think the white widow in the W.R dosen't like bug bud nutes. This happened my last grows aswell which were pure bread W.W.

P.S... BUMP

 

[3rdEye]

Patience will be your friend here NOS. I don't know much about growing with chemicals. After ripping or trimming roots it can take a good few days to a week or more for a plant to recover. That's another factor to look at when keeping plants. How well do they respond to different types of stress. Especially doing an operation like that during flowering could slow down flowering time by quite a bit.

Greengenes great advice on potting up. I know there are different schools of thought on it, but my yields have been enhanced by potting up.

good luck NOS

 

[haveaNOSday]

Friggin breaker blew this morn. so they lost 2 hrs. of light grrrr.

The're actually starting to come back. I noticed that 1 plant on the far side of the crop, that I need to rotate every day is more yellow on one side so I raised the light about 6" I wondering mabey now my troubles have been from the 1000hps being to close. anyway we'll see in a bit.

 

[Dorje113]

I've always had good luck and seen near 1.5 g/W yields from using larger volumes of soil. If you're growing larger plants the min. I'd go with is 20 gal. I'm currently using 20 gal sp's with good results and 3 plants under a 1kW HPS. If I can, I prefer using beds with about 50 gal/plant... and the roots do completely fill out the space, top-to-bottom, side-to-side. This much soil also regulates the temp in the room and makes it difficult for the plants to go thru all the nutes too quickly and the pH stays balanced. If you take care of your soil you can reuse it indefinately, and my mix is 25% or more peat moss. Whoever said peat moss creates pH instability is wrong. Peat balanced with dolomite lime stays at the right pH for years.

 

[haveaNOSday]

I've heared of peeople using garbage cans as pots but damn their expensive especially when your running 20 plants. I also find soil is becoming a real pain in the ass,it makes a mess it's heavy, dirty and I track soil around the house. I.wanna get a co2 outfit first then I think I'm going to invest in someone's used hydro set up.

 

[3rdEye]

If you are after quality and complexity of flavors i would recommend you stay with soil NOS. I wouldn't worry about the super huge containers just yet. They are nice when you got the space, but i pull between 3-5 ounces per plant in a 2-3 gal container. About 12-16 plants per 1K light. So unless you need really large amounts you'll probably be better served with the buffering capacity of soil. If you are going for large yields as your primary interest, then hydroponics might be the way to go.

good luck either way

 

[haveaNOSday]

no yield is not what im after it's quality. But I'm learning that soil is more tricky than people think it might be. it's been about a year and a half im op'ing and I still can't get it!!!

Now, finally I'm starting to understand.

have you ever grown any W.W or W.W cross in soil?? and what kinda nutes do they like? Because they don't like avanced nutes. big bud!!!

 

[zafira-sri]

have you ever grown any W.W or W.W cross in soil?? and what kinda nutes do they like? Because they don't like avanced nutes. big bud!!![/QUOTE]

i grow white widow and white russain for a long time and can tell you they do not like lots of food

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