What the heck is happening to my plants?! Please Help

[Dralion]

Hey every one.. could some one look at my picture album in my profile. Something is happening to my plants. Every once in a while some of the branches at the bottom of my plant will just wilt up on me. I dont know whats causing this at all.... so strange! The branches will just wilt and droop, and dry... I under up cutting them off in the album you will see cros section pictures of one of the branches... should the branches be hollow on the inside like the cross section pictures show? This is just so strange... I mean look at my plants... they look absolutely heathy in every way.. dont they?! What could be causing this? I feed nutrients, but only half dose. I water regularly (maybe too much?) no pests are eating the branches... PLEASE HELP
http://https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20166

 

[argoagro]

Hey every one.. could some one look at my picture album in my profile. Something is happening to my plants. Every once in a while some of the branches at the bottom of my plant will just wilt up on me. I dont know whats causing this at all.... so strange! The branches will just wilt and droop, and dry... I under up cutting them off in the album you will see cros section pictures of one of the branches... should the branches be hollow on the inside like the cross section pictures show? This is just so strange... I mean look at my plants... they look absolutely heathy in every way.. dont they?! What could be causing this? I feed nutrients, but only half dose. I water regularly (maybe too much?) no pests are eating the branches... PLEASE HELP
http://https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20166

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20166

Fixed the link for you

let one of the more experienced chime in before you take action, but it REALLY looks like overwatering to me, water less & next year I would use a bit more perlite in the mix

The hollow stems is normal.

 

[Paddi]

should the branches be hollow on the inside like the cross section pictures show?

Yes. Thats normal.
A hollow branch is stronger than a massive branch.

Looks like you have a little sickness at the bottom of a few plants. If it´s only at the bottom....no big deal


P

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

yeah, the branches for many varieties are hollow. Not always though.

We really need more info Dralion,better pictures of the wilted branch and the leaves, but I would be very concerned if i had entire branches wilting. From my experience there are only a few things that can make a healthy plants wilt, or whole branches wilt.

1. Check for caterpillars/boreres. Split one of the wilted branches and see if there is a worm in it or look for borer holes in the stem. Borers can make a branch wilt in some varieties and i guess you could have a strain thats succeptable to caterpillars which could lead to an infestation if left untreated. Rotenone/pyrethrins concentrate will destroy the borers/caterpillars if this turns out to be the problem. I have my doubts.

2. Entire branch wilt is also one of the first indicators of Powdery mildew. Its usually followed quickly by severe leaf yellowing, more branch wilt and within a couple of weeks the plant is dead. If you see severe leaf yellowing on the plants that start with spots and then cover the entire leaf, and the symptoms appearing on other plants, you have to act quickly. Its an unfortunate myth that powdery mildew shows "white powder" on the leaves. Plants can succumb to the disease before that stage becomes apparant. Common knowledge is that there is no cure for powdery mildew, but a product called "Eagle 20" has been used successfully by other growers over several years and Im using it this year myself. Georges Cervantes has several books with info about powdery mildew if you need more info. I lost 30 lbs of smoke to pm last year. Its a devastating disease for the cannabis grower.

Overwatering leads to a droopy plant with hanging, yellowing leaves. Yours dont appear to be suffering from that to me. Grubs can eat roots and wilt a whole plant but that doesnt appear to be the case since you just have branch wilting.

good luck to you. keep us posted on events.

 

[Dralion]

Its been a total mystery to me as of the cause of the wilting branches. I suppose being new to growing I may be over watering some. But to be honest everything about my plants appears, to me, to be going great. There are only a few yellowing leaves at the very center and bottom of my plants. But I thought this was just normal from not having much sun exposure down in that region of the plants. Even my tomato plants have a few yellow leaves at bottom center. Also, my nutrient mix is typically pretty dilute. I use botanicare pro grow, at half the suggested dose. Out of the hose my water's Ph is about 8-9, according to my little test kit, and I adjust to between 6.0-6.5 ruffly as close as I can get with the little test dy kit. I was going to be gone for a week and gave them a bunch of water... I have an emergency and didn't adjust the Ph before I watered...could that have been significant to have caused something like this?
Also, I saw no signs of caterpillers or borers in the branches. No pin holes or other signs of pests either. Should I be spraying my plants as a precautionary measure. Others have suggested spraying Bt to inhibit caterpillers from showing up later in the years. Being new I just want to make sure to be on top of things and prepared for the next step. Any suggestions as to what to be prepared for or as maintanence as the season progresses?

 

[Dralion]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20166

Fixed the link for you

let one of the more experienced chime in before you take action, but it REALLY looks like overwatering to me, water less & next year I would use a bit more perlite in the mix

The hollow stems is normal.

Thanks for fixing the link much appreciated!

 

[Dralion]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20190
Hey guys, does the color of this leaf tell you guys anything? Maybe I just over watered the other day (5gallons). This leaf was taken from the bottom center of plants... exposed to not much sunlight.

 

[Guyute54]

How much water are you giving em per day? What's the temps been like? I'm thinking more of a underwatering than an overwatering. Overwatering ussually makes a whole plant look droppy but underwatering can effect certain parts of your plants. I had a plant where one side would drop when it wasw thirsty more than the others. Your plants are looking very large and on a hot summer day can take lots of water.
do you got a moisture meter? There cheap and you can find them at most hardware store walmart ect. see if you can test to see how much moisture is in the ground a foot or so down.

 

[Xare]

Branches will yellow and wilt when a plants roots are infected with a pathogenic fungi like Pythium or Fusarium.

Powdery Mildew will not make branches wilt or yellow, and it most assuredly does show white spore dust on the leaves.

It is not a Myth. In fact the disease is named after the symptoms it expresses.


I suggest using a Biological Fungicide in a soil drench as a step for prevention.

 

[Tom Hill]

I concur Xare.

Dralion, this looks/sounds like pressure from a soilborne pathogen. This is of course assuming that you've ruled out any breakage.

Mycostop (streptomyces griseoviridis) is a fairly broad spectrum biofungicide that in the absence of exact diagnosis might be a good idea to apply as a drench to all of those plants. Nice garden by the way. Here is one source, I'm sure there are many more if you google it as well as many other biocontrol options too. -T http://www.groworganic.com/item_PFM...cide_5_Gram_Pac.html?welcome=T&theses=7565216

 

[Dralion]

Thanks All... Man I couldn't even begin to figure out how it might be a pathogenic fungi. Lets see... I originally was going to just grow veggies, then a friend turned me on the the "legal" aspect of growing. I ended up digging my whole backyard over, pulling so so many weeds, the tilling 2 feet deep, adding some raised beds and about 2 yards of mushroom compost. It was a lot of work. In each plant whole 24+ inches deep i mixed the amended soil with fox farm ocean. I feed botanicare pro grow every once in a while. I don't water every day. Last time I watered heavy, about 5 gallons per plant. It was school finals and I hadnt time to be screwing around in the yard. Especially after spending a day installing all the cages (what a bloody mess, try doing that alone without help on plants this size). I also did a quick water once during finals without adjusting Ph.... If thats any info to help with some more ideas. TomHill and Xare.... how should I approach applying this fungicide? How often? Is it organic? Will it damage the plant? So So many questions I know.... also should I be spraying the plant itself for a prevenitive measure every once in a while?

Thanks!

 

[Dralion]

Ps.... I do have cucumber beetles in the yard..... theyve been at my Pole Beans.... could they do this?!

 

[Dralion]

Also.... why would this be affecting just the marijuana and not my tomotoes and other plants... this soil fungi?

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Other plant growth is a good indicator of soil condition Dralion. There cant be much wrong if the veggies are growing fine.

i looked at your leaf pics and thank god they dont look like they have Pm. Is the condition present in all of the plants ? Does it seem to be spreading and getting worse? Have you posted over in the infirmary section? Keep the detailed pics comming.

Xare and TH, in 1984 we had over 1000 plants growing in a 100+ acre corn field. In mid august we had 1 plant that had a branch wilt and then die. By the end of the week the entire plant was dead and by mid september over 1000 plants, all over 6' tall and 3 weeks into flower were as dead as a doornail. In 1999, it was only 125 plants, but all were dead within 30 days. Last year i just lost 44 plants, but each year the outcome has been the same. I know the disease well and i know its impact. In all 3 cases, the plants were past the point of rescue by the time white powder appeared on the leaves. The disease has been rare in the past, but just like with spider mites, carless indoor growers./communities are harboring and spreading the disease like wildfire. Indoor growers often misunderstand that the behavior of such diseases is different in a controlled indoor enviroment than it is in a hot, wet outdoor enviroment

Dralion, Icmag is a great place but misinformation is often passed off as expert advice. Do your own research on issues. For Pm, i would suggest that you start with Gcervantes "grow bible 2". Mel franks has written on it as well, but currently the authority on Pm in my view is the Universtiy of Kentucky. The states' agriculture is based on tobacco, grapes and black berries which suffer from some of the same fungal diseases as cannabis. Big tobacco, wine companies and fruit producers have provided U. of K. the funding for long term extensive research on the molds and mildews that attact these plants and their research has led to a number of promising products such as Actigaurd. These may be better than Eagle 20 or the Meltatox that chimera uses but all treatments for the disease are systemic in nature and should be used with great caution.

Here's some thoughts from Chimera on Pm.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129670


"Powdery mildew is OBVIOUSLY spread to non-infected plants via spores. This is no revelation to anyone other than those just hearing the words powdery mildew for the first time. My point in that post was intended to be that the "white powdery" part we see growing is the reproductive structure of a 'sexually mature' life stage of the fungus. (I say sexually mature to emphasize the reproductive life cycle element, but as people who understand the biology of fungal reproduction know it's not really 'sexual' per se, because the spores are generated only from a single individual, not two (male and female-pollenvule) situation.)"

 

[Tom Hill]

D.S. Toker. MD is correct in that internet diagnosis leaves something to be desired, however, I am no stranger to all of the possibilities here.

The fact is we have had the snottiest spring in Norcal in decades, perfect for things like pythium etc - especially if the grower has overwatered on top of that. My feeling is that PM would have very likely reached its reproductive phase by now and this would certainly be visible.

My vote is that there is a disconnect of above/below ground structures and in the absence of breakage, signs point to soilborne pathogen. Usually damage/loss is limited to around 10%, but on years such as this I have seen folks incur as much as 70% crop loss. It may be a huge mistake to assume that if the veggies are doing well that there can't be much wrong etc. Unlike many diseases, once soilborne pathogen gain the upper hand we are hard pressed to do much about it. The astute observer with the aid of polarized lenses can rapidly spot these disconnects early on in the form of offcolored branches/plants.

In any case, I would look into and drench with products like Mycostop, Rootshield, etc to sway odds in your favor Dralion. These are organic and naturally occurring soil fungi/actinomycetes that attack/block many soilborne pathogens. Follow directions on labels as to applications. Good luck. -Tom

 

[Xare]

Biological Fungicides should be used in organic grows as a preventative measure. Once you have signs of an infection its hard to fight. Inoculate the roots of all your plants via a soil drench and this will provide your healthy plants some protection.

Chemical products like Eagle 20 are for chemically fertilized grows. If it was used for an organic grow you would kill off your micro-herd.

Xare and TH, in 1984 we had over 1000 plants growing in a 100+ acre corn field. In mid august we had 1 plant that had a branch wilt and then die. By the end of the week the entire plant was dead and by mid september over 1000 plants, all over 6' tall and 3 weeks into flower were as dead as a doornail. In 1999, it was only 125 plants, but all were dead within 30 days. Last year i just lost 44 plants, but each year the outcome has been the same. I know the disease well and i know its impact. In all 3 cases, the plants were past the point of rescue by the time white powder appeared on the leaves. The disease has been rare in the past, but just like with spider mites, carless indoor growers./communities are harboring and spreading the disease like wildfire. Indoor growers often misunderstand that the behavior of such diseases is different in a controlled indoor enviroment than it is in a hot, wet outdoor enviroment

A wilted leaf hanging on the plant is damp and more susceptible to infections then a healthy leaf. The spores will spread from the dead leafs over to good green leafs.

Your branches are wilting, yellowing and dying from a root rot type disease and these dead leafs make a foothold for Powdery Mildew to spread.

It sounds to me like your having trouble distinguishing between multiple sicknesses.

 

[♥Mo♥]

Dralion, your plants look great other than the bit of wilt. My 2 cents are this: They look like they are smashed in that small cage and the heat build up is cooking your plants. I personally would either remove the cage or try and get some of the squashed in branches pulled thru the openings of your cage. Again in my opinion you will see some massive mold soon if you don't spread the plants out a bit. Good luck.

 

[Dralion]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I believe 1) it is a good idea to spread the plant out a bit, encouraging air circulation. 2) that a soil drench is a good idea as a preventative measure.. if this is an organic mix and wont harm the plant then I think why not. 3) I think the idea of a disconnect between above/below surface connect is a good route to pursue... it makes the most sense to me, I dont see anything above ground to think something else is causing the problems.
By drenching soil I feel I woud be doing the best to assure my plants survive til harvest.
Any other thoughts... what about spraying folage for prventetive measures... someone suggested Bt.

I also agree with Toker... there doesn't seem to be indication of other longterm declining symptoms.... this was a sudden occurrence.

Dralion

 

[Dralion]

I found something on some inner bottom leaves...... sort of dusty grey looking... is it dust or powdery mildew?
http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=20269

 

[Private Joker]

looks like PM imo.(you know what they say about opinions tho) Have had good luck with Eagle 20. Read some things on here about milk/water sprayed on. Have no idea about that.