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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
My girls in hempy buckets were treated with bayer citrus and veggie formula. I mixed it at 10ml per gal in ph'd ro water as the "flush" I do every 2 weeks. The nice thing about the citrus is it doesn't seem to have the high N content of the tree and shrub formula and it the c and v formula has a lot of what appears to be a horticulural oil soap/wetting agent. I saturated the media with 1 gallon solution for each bucket and then watered with my nutrient solution at 1gal/bucket a day later. The effects have been noticeable; much more vigorous growth and the "mg deficiency" seems to have been cured. I'm adding hygrozyme and lots of peroxide to ward off rot. Digging through the white perlite yeilds hundreds of black bug carcasses. 1 week from today the hempy moms will all another of the same treatment. The hydroton drip system is going to get set up for a run to waste imid solution treatment following the same protocol as well.
I can easily dig up the air roots in the perlite buckets and can't see anything with a 30x loupe and the exposed roots of my drip system look perfect but I will continue to treat them anyway to kill off the stragglers.
I have also dropped humidity back to below 30% as they seem to thrive less at low humidity. I have tangle foot in my hair and bleach spots on my cloths but I'm going to whip these little shits....
I can easily dig up the air roots in the perlite buckets and can't see anything with a 30x loupe and the exposed roots of my drip system look perfect but I will continue to treat them anyway to kill off the stragglers.
I have also dropped humidity back to below 30% as they seem to thrive less at low humidity. I have tangle foot in my hair and bleach spots on my cloths but I'm going to whip these little shits....
Just want to chime in and join the cool kids club....
I also have root aphids from a couple infected clones, Carolina blue and LVPK. Would I do it allover again for a chance at running the genetics....HELL YES!
Bayer Advanced + Botaniguard + a million yellow stickys + hot shot no pest strip = hopefully murdering the bastards....luckily I can treat everything right now prior to flower
Good luck everyone, hopefully this will be another ole notch on the belt!!!
I also have root aphids from a couple infected clones, Carolina blue and LVPK. Would I do it allover again for a chance at running the genetics....HELL YES!
Bayer Advanced + Botaniguard + a million yellow stickys + hot shot no pest strip = hopefully murdering the bastards....luckily I can treat everything right now prior to flower
Good luck everyone, hopefully this will be another ole notch on the belt!!!
The thing that finally worked for me was 3 successive soil drenches and folair sprays of pyrethrum with each application 4 days apart.
I even tried imid, my plants were still f-ed.
I even tried imid, my plants were still f-ed.
Just want to chime in and join the cool kids club....
I also have root aphids from a couple infected clones, Carolina blue and LVPK. Would I do it allover again for a chance at running the genetics....HELL YES!
Bayer Advanced + Botaniguard + a million yellow stickys + hot shot no pest strip = hopefully murdering the bastards....luckily I can treat everything right now prior to flower
Good luck everyone, hopefully this will be another ole notch on the belt!!!
Bayer Advanced is a good choice, and all you will need. One application did it for me.
Not a single bug of any type survived.
Good luck.
Token Treasures
Member
When you apply the foliar make sure the lights are off the sun too!!!! You will burn the plant if you don't.
well. after harvesting my last run. which the aphids got the better half of. im finally back on track.
treated my clones with imid 2 times from clone to right befor flower. so far no aphids. knock on wood. also keep in mind i used azatrol. which has helped with the fungas gnats as i have zero this round.
soooo moral of my boring story . use i.m.i.d prevenativly from clone if you dont want these cock smokers wrecking your garden... least thats my 2 cents... good luck everyone!
treated my clones with imid 2 times from clone to right befor flower. so far no aphids. knock on wood. also keep in mind i used azatrol. which has helped with the fungas gnats as i have zero this round.
soooo moral of my boring story . use i.m.i.d prevenativly from clone if you dont want these cock smokers wrecking your garden... least thats my 2 cents... good luck everyone!
HossCartwright
Member
Token Treasures
Member
I used the imid and seen that it took out any insect that even landed on the soil and I started fresh didn't want to take any chance of some really ugly stuff contaminating me nor the people I share with. The stuff stays in the soil for a long time and I got wondering if it really ever truly broke down to a non toxic product and how much the plant absorbed into the plants roots and canopy.
Some of the answers you seek are in this very thread............
So, I've got the red asses and found them when the I took a close look at the drain tray and realized all the 'peat moss bits' were moving. Had flyers too. Two situations, veg and flower. Flower is in smart pots and definitely have them, but nothing like what was in veg. Took cuttings from veg and tossed most but saved some 4 inchers that didn't seem hopeless. Azatrolled everything with one soil drench, didn't like the oil on roots idea. Found Botanicare ES but decided it was too oily, so have been using the 22wp powder at about a tea per gallon. Potted them up a size into DE amended soil, plastic pots. A week later they had filled the new space and the aphids were thriving. Took them out of the pots and submerged them into a strong solution, 2 T/gal, of enzyme soap for about 15 minutes. Total kill, including the plants, perhaps - lots of burn on the older leaves, but they are still alive, still declining 4 days later.
The flower area got a root drench and DE. It had a few flyers and an occasional crawler, but never the amount in the veg. It must be the Smart pots. I eventually took a few out to pot up and all I found are a few older looking ones. I think they allow for more drying action for the DE to work. It would be interesting to cut one of these into a cross section and compare with plastic - maybe they are just as bad but more evenly distributed inside the root ball. Plastic is bad for plant roots, period. Spleebale you've given me hope with your anecdotes about some people in smart pots making it through ok.
So reading that article online (http://www.gpnmag.com/Some-Aphids-Go-Deep-Others-High-article2797)that seems to be the only thing that comes up about root aphids I latched onto the Botanicare, but didn't hook with the insecticidal soap results until after I dunked mine and saw the results. They got a really high kill at a dunk for 120 seconds. I used the proportions I used after doing a quick dunk with a weaker solution and still seeing live ones, but I'm thinking that a longer dunk with a weaker solution could work pretty well. I can't find any thing about this kind of treatment - has anyone found the limits of how long a plant can stay submerged without serious harm, how to help the rootball dry out afterwards, and how much soap the roots can tolerate without freaking out as much as mine did? I remember reading on here about being careful of the ph - the stuff I was using has a near neutral ph, 6 something, and was made of purified water, anionic/nonionic surfactant blend, glycerin, enzymes, peppermint oil, and sodium borate. www.safesolutionsinc.com. The guy is trying to get a patent for it as an insecticide. It sure worked, but was it the soap or enzymes? The enzymes are supposed to eat the exoskeleton away.
Another thing I am doing but don't know how well it works yet is to try to corral them all with a top mulch of diatomite silica stone and a thick layer of it in the tray. I haven't seen crawlers since I started chasing them, but I'm thinking the DE can keep migrating ones from voluntarily walking through it to get to pots.
Another question I have is has anybody identified the red asses as to species? Some aphids need alternate hosts to lay eggs on, therefore the risk of infection by flyers might be low, really low if they need to lay in soil rather than on the plant they are eating and the soil is covered by DE - a thing most aphids don't do, from what I can gather.
Still a work in progress here. I'm letting the flower area go with Bontanicare powder in every watering, DE/silicastone on top, letting the pots dry as much as possible between waterings and hope for the best.
If the new cuttings turn up with them then it might be time for the heavy artillery, but would love to figure out this drowning/soap thing so I don't hurt the plants so much in the treatment.
I apologise if I missed this information in my first reading of this thread.
The flower area got a root drench and DE. It had a few flyers and an occasional crawler, but never the amount in the veg. It must be the Smart pots. I eventually took a few out to pot up and all I found are a few older looking ones. I think they allow for more drying action for the DE to work. It would be interesting to cut one of these into a cross section and compare with plastic - maybe they are just as bad but more evenly distributed inside the root ball. Plastic is bad for plant roots, period. Spleebale you've given me hope with your anecdotes about some people in smart pots making it through ok.
So reading that article online (http://www.gpnmag.com/Some-Aphids-Go-Deep-Others-High-article2797)that seems to be the only thing that comes up about root aphids I latched onto the Botanicare, but didn't hook with the insecticidal soap results until after I dunked mine and saw the results. They got a really high kill at a dunk for 120 seconds. I used the proportions I used after doing a quick dunk with a weaker solution and still seeing live ones, but I'm thinking that a longer dunk with a weaker solution could work pretty well. I can't find any thing about this kind of treatment - has anyone found the limits of how long a plant can stay submerged without serious harm, how to help the rootball dry out afterwards, and how much soap the roots can tolerate without freaking out as much as mine did? I remember reading on here about being careful of the ph - the stuff I was using has a near neutral ph, 6 something, and was made of purified water, anionic/nonionic surfactant blend, glycerin, enzymes, peppermint oil, and sodium borate. www.safesolutionsinc.com. The guy is trying to get a patent for it as an insecticide. It sure worked, but was it the soap or enzymes? The enzymes are supposed to eat the exoskeleton away.
Another thing I am doing but don't know how well it works yet is to try to corral them all with a top mulch of diatomite silica stone and a thick layer of it in the tray. I haven't seen crawlers since I started chasing them, but I'm thinking the DE can keep migrating ones from voluntarily walking through it to get to pots.
Another question I have is has anybody identified the red asses as to species? Some aphids need alternate hosts to lay eggs on, therefore the risk of infection by flyers might be low, really low if they need to lay in soil rather than on the plant they are eating and the soil is covered by DE - a thing most aphids don't do, from what I can gather.
Still a work in progress here. I'm letting the flower area go with Bontanicare powder in every watering, DE/silicastone on top, letting the pots dry as much as possible between waterings and hope for the best.
If the new cuttings turn up with them then it might be time for the heavy artillery, but would love to figure out this drowning/soap thing so I don't hurt the plants so much in the treatment.
I apologise if I missed this information in my first reading of this thread.
Don't worry be happy that wine you had with your kind organic veggie lasagna probably had more imid in it...no really it is rather non toxic to humans and I'm sure you waited 30 days so smoke up it's definitly less harmfull than the air in socal.
I ran the citrus and veggie at 10ml per gallon in my drip system for 8hrs and saw no ill effects as a bonus it has little or no N and is ph neutral.... I'll be treating them all again the day I flip em just to be sure.
HM
Just want to chime in and join the cool kids club....
I also have root aphids from a couple infected clones, Carolina blue and LVPK. Would I do it allover again for a chance at running the genetics....HELL YES!
Bayer Advanced + Botaniguard + a million yellow stickys + hot shot no pest strip = hopefully murdering the bastards....luckily I can treat everything right now prior to flower
Good luck everyone, hopefully this will be another ole notch on the belt!!!
Hey I'm an old fart
And for the free urkel, bubba K, White widow, and P. Snow cuts I have now...ya I'd take a case of mites too. Good luck PK kick em in the pillsHM
What kind of condition were your plants in after all that drenching? What dosage were you using? How were you drenching, pouring into the pot, dunking??
It sure seems whole pot submersion would give you the best chance.
Since the Bayer Tree & Shrub, Bayer Citrus and Bayer Complete Insect Killer have different amounts of Imidacloprid and B-Cyfluthrin and since they need to be used in different doses and for different lengths of time based on the type of system you have, I want to share MY experience in a Drain to Waste Coco system.
I have suffered for years with Fungas Gnats and as I recently discovered, Root Aphids (that I could never see). I've used Gnatrol and Mosquito dunks till I was blue in the face without results. I've also used beneficial Nematodes with little success. This plague has haunted me for years. I've spent hundreds of dollars on these products.
After reading Spleebales thread I decided to try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer. I chose the "Complete" product because it contained the contact killer B-Cyfluthrin in addition to the systemic Imidacloprid.
My application was as follows:
5ml/Gallon mixed solution giving each pot a single soak. I did not feed the day of the soak. The gnats were all killed instantly. The plants did not suffer any damage, in fact looked healthier the very next day (probably due to bug relief). Two weeks later there were 2-3 gnats stuck to my yellow indicator card but none in the coco. Those were probably a few strays that happen to be flying around the room. I also saw some very, very tiny baby Root Aphids crawling around the pot this time. Once again, I gave the plants another 5ml/gallon soak and the baby Aphids were gone. I could say that my dose was conservative and that you could go up to 10-15ml/gallon without problems.
The bugs are gone gone gone. The plants are now as healthy as if they were never infected and I am kicking myself in the head for not trying this years ago. I know that there are you Tofu eating tree huggers that want to do everything the hard "natural" way, but if you ever want to simply get rid of them done deal gone instead of "managing" the problem, then I highly recommend this product.
I have suffered for years with Fungas Gnats and as I recently discovered, Root Aphids (that I could never see). I've used Gnatrol and Mosquito dunks till I was blue in the face without results. I've also used beneficial Nematodes with little success. This plague has haunted me for years. I've spent hundreds of dollars on these products.
After reading Spleebales thread I decided to try the Bayer Complete Insect Killer. I chose the "Complete" product because it contained the contact killer B-Cyfluthrin in addition to the systemic Imidacloprid.
My application was as follows:
5ml/Gallon mixed solution giving each pot a single soak. I did not feed the day of the soak. The gnats were all killed instantly. The plants did not suffer any damage, in fact looked healthier the very next day (probably due to bug relief). Two weeks later there were 2-3 gnats stuck to my yellow indicator card but none in the coco. Those were probably a few strays that happen to be flying around the room. I also saw some very, very tiny baby Root Aphids crawling around the pot this time. Once again, I gave the plants another 5ml/gallon soak and the baby Aphids were gone. I could say that my dose was conservative and that you could go up to 10-15ml/gallon without problems.
The bugs are gone gone gone. The plants are now as healthy as if they were never infected and I am kicking myself in the head for not trying this years ago. I know that there are you Tofu eating tree huggers that want to do everything the hard "natural" way, but if you ever want to simply get rid of them done deal gone instead of "managing" the problem, then I highly recommend this product.
Tagged! Great informative thread!
