Sick Merlin's Magic...Help needed Please

[shaunmulok]

HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics/Coco/Soiless/
Coco 100%
How long has this problem been going on?3 or 4 weeks
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents)No Panda plastic room
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)Drain To Waste
What STRAIN are you growing?Merlin's Magic
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)Seed
What is the age of your plants?Apprx. 12 weeks
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..)7 weeks
How tall are the plants?1.2 to 1.5 meters
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?Flower
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)Coco
What is the Water temperature?22Deg C
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?White from what i can see
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless)Dutch Master Gold Flower and gold line
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*40l tap water 60mls flower A+B, 120mls gold add.27, silica 16mls,zone 4 mls
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)every watering
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless)every watering
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?approx 3rd week of flower after the stretch stopped
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)Add.27,silica,zone,A+B
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using1.5 EC
What is the pH of the "Tank"?Fluctuate between 5.8 and 6.0
How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS?Every feed
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment?Yes
When was your last watering?2 days ago
What is your water temps?22Deg C
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)1 week ago
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?Weekly(sundays)
What size bulb are you using?2x600w
How old is the bulbs you are using?new
What is the distance to the canopy?12"
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?38-45RH
What is the canopy temperature?26Deg C
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)Day 26Deg C Night 16Deg C
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)1120
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?12000btu A/C, 2x8" air intakes,1120cfm high pressure exhaust fan, 2 box fans
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?no
Is your water HARD or SOFT?Soft doesn't register on truncheon
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?Tap
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?tested at pool shop at 14ppm
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?
Are you using water from a water softener?No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched Not since veg
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest's Yes, Kill-a-mite late veg

I have been having some trouble with my last grow and now i'm seeing the same thing happening again

I have searched through the sticky and it looks like a Potassium def. and also cal/mag

I always water with 20% runoff and i'm currently watering every second day letting the top of the coco dry slightly

EC going in is 1.5 and runoff is 1.5 so i dont think its lockout

I have been treating with Cyco Dr.Repair and thought i was seeing improvement but in the last 2 days its getting worse

Here are a couple pics

Any help or advise would be appreciated
Thanks in Advance
Shaun

 

[shaunmulok]

Quoted off the 5lt bottle
Part A
Total (N) 4.0%...Soluble Potash(K20)4.0%
Calcium(Ca) 1.5%
Magnesium(Mg) 0.5%.....?enough?
Copper(Cu)0.0001% .....?enough?
Iron(Fe) Chelated Iron 0.030%?
Manganese(Mn)Chelated 0.001%....?enough?
Zinc(Zn)Chelated 0.001%

Part B
Phosphate(P205) 3.0%
Soluble Potash(K20) 5.0%
Magnesium(Mg) 0.5%...combined total with part A 1.0%??
Sulfur(S)1.2%
Boron(B)0.001%?
Molybdenum(Mo)0.001%?

Dr.Repair
Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen(N)3.44%
Nitrate Nitrogen 1.14%
Total Iron(Fe)0.66%
Water soluble Iron(Fe)0.66%
Chelated (Fe)0.66%
Magnesium(Mg)soluble 0.475%
Magnesium(Mg)Water soluble 0.475%
Total Zinc(Zn) 0.028%
Water Soluble Zinc(Zn)0.028)

 

[unclefishstick]

it looks to me like you are getting lockout,my feeling is the nitrogen is the culprit as well as the nute strength,but i am not that familiar with coco

 

[unclefishstick]

sometimes too much chlorine in your water can lock out those elements,in particular the cal/mag,do you ever see any chunks in the rez?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm thinking lockout, maybe you could allow the swing to go as high as 6.2 or let it dip as low as 5.6. Best wishes with the fix.

 

[shaunmulok]

no not that i have seen, i forgot to mention i do let my water sit overnight and my res has a bubbler in it

 

[darrmann]

its a magnessi8um and possible calcium deficiency or lockout. Cocco has a tendency to soak up these nutes before realeasing them to the plant so you actually have to give them more cal mag then normal. dont overfeed them just use cal mag on a regular basis to prevent this deficiency.goto this site i give you to see for yourself , its a great site for sick plants a definite one to bookmark or add as favorite.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[slave4sail]

Ask 10 different growers a question, and get 20 different answers! As always it could be a number of things, by the way I found this topic from a link in your merlin.m grow thread.

First looking at your pictures from around week three, and noticing the feed it seemed like they were getting a good dose of N in the mix but not much P. Not to say some varieties don't like this, but all act to their own preferences. Initially thinking it may be excess N locking out Ca, the progression in your last picture almost seems like a simple P def. Especially interesting is the progression in that last picture not only the leaf blade progression, but the darkening of the petiole also. The plants otherwise seem to be provided a wonderful environment for a high metabolism life. Good air movement, lighting, and proper gardens eat more food than less dialed in environments; and you garden is dialed quite nicely. The DIY things are just a bonus to relish at to a hobbyist like me.

Scanned that checklist a few times and could not see if you listed container size, only curious. Other than that, what mighty fine space and specimens you are working with.

 

[shaunmulok]

Ask 10 different growers a question, and get 20 different answers! As always it could be a number of things, by the way I found this topic from a link in your merlin.m grow thread.

First looking at your pictures from around week three, and noticing the feed it seemed like they were getting a good dose of N in the mix but not much P. Not to say some varieties don't like this, but all act to their own preferences. Initially thinking it may be excess N locking out Ca, the progression in your last picture almost seems like a simple P def. Especially interesting is the progression in that last picture not only the leaf blade progression, but the darkening of the petiole also. The plants otherwise seem to be provided a wonderful environment for a high metabolism life. Good air movement, lighting, and proper gardens eat more food than less dialed in environments; and you garden is dialed quite nicely. The DIY things are just a bonus to relish at to a hobbyist like me.

Scanned that checklist a few times and could not see if you listed container size, only curious. Other than that, what mighty fine space and specimens you are working with.

Gday slave, and thanks for your imput...you are right with the ask 10 growers get 10 different answers lol

The plants are in 18l pots of coco

i originally thought it was a cal/mag def. but as time went on it slowly progressed worse showing more signs like P def.
In my MM thread i noted that i was going stop using the Add.27(0-2-2) and use GH kool bloom(0-10-10) so i might start that soon

darrmann, i have read and re-read Mynamestichs sticky sick plants thread many times thanks m8 i like your thinking

Thanks Disco, i might let the ph swing upto 6.2 but i find if i take the ph to 5.7 or lower i get some leaves twisting and the tips of the white hairs burn a little thats why i dont get lower that 5.7ph

Thanks all

 

[gaiusmarius]

i'm not familiar with the nutrient line you are using. are they coco specific? if not you might well need to add a bit of cal mag.

if they are coco specific, then you probably have an imbalance in the coco, this could be due to the weekly flushing. as was said by another poster coco is kinda alive and eats nutes too, so if you don't let the ferts build up a little bit it might be getting hungry, flushing every few weeks is plenty. or it could be that you need to water a bit more now the plants are bigger. i anyway find coco works best with at least daily watering, specially when the plants are big and fully flowering.

i'm a great believer in using coco specific nutrients in coco, specially in the flowering phase. coco ends up using more N in flowering then any other medium does, so the nutrients should be made that way, look at canna coco A+B npk ratios to make a comparison with your nutes, both a and b have different ingredients but they are always used in equal amounts to get the perfect proportions for growing in coco through the whole plants life, including the veg phase.

 

[shaunmulok]

Thanks gaiusmarius, Dutch master say their nutes are formulated for all system types and mediums

*
Revolutionary Next Generation Nutrient!
*
Cutting Edge Powerful Advanced Ionic Technology!
*
6 Years Of Technological Advancements In 1 Product!
*
Formulated To Work In All Grow Systems With All Grow Mediums!

http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=product&product=GOLD_RANGE_NUTRIENT

I will see if i can find canna's NPK ratios and compare

I was watering daily but the girls were looking droopy a lot thats why i went every second day

Good advise i will stop the weekly flush..sound right too i'm feeding at 1.5ec and the runoff is 1.5ec
Thanks m8

 

[gaiusmarius]

if the run off is at the same level you are feeding at, then they shouldn't really be hungry.

are those leaves being effected all older fan leaves? how close to harvest are you? some times older leaves dieing off like that happens to the leaves that were sprayed early on. some times the residue from the product you sprayed on them when they were young, can cause this at later stage near harvest.

specially if you don't rinse the product off again.

in the end if you are close to harvest, it's not too big a worry. plants also naturally yellow up their older leaves near the end of their cycle. if i have any other thought i'll get back to you.

peace

 

[shaunmulok]

if the run off is at the same level you are feeding at, then they shouldn't really be hungry.

are those leaves being effected all older fan leaves? how close to harvest are you? some times older leaves dieing off like that happens to the leaves that were sprayed early on. some times the residue from the product you sprayed on them when they were young, can cause this at later stage near harvest.

specially if you don't rinse the product off again.

in the end if you are close to harvest, it's not too big a worry. plants also naturally yellow up their older leaves near the end of their cycle. if i have any other thought i'll get back to you.

peace

Hi gaiusmarius and thanks for coming back and helping further

Yes all the leaves effected are the older Fan leaves....BUT as this is a test strain and i'm not certain to the flower time but the earlier tests by discobiscut and Ganoderma it looks like a 11 or 12 week flower strain and i'm only just approaching week 6

The new growth is reasonably green an not affected but the already effected growth is getting worse and now some of the other larger fan leaves are showing the same symptoms

Pic of new growth/tops

that was nearly a week ago and the tops still look good and lush so it is only the older growth deteriorating

 

[attila76]

Given that you are feeding every time its likely nute build-up burn.
House and Garden makes a product called "drip clean." It prevents this problem in most cases. Krunchbubble uses it and has written it up.
Another option is flushing and reducing frequency and amount of feeding. Remember nutes don't create yield; rather nutes facilitate and support yield and growth. Genetics and environment determine yield.

Also, you said that was week 5 approaching week 6? From my experience it looks like the bud development has been delayed. ?Perhaps from too much N? Perhaps...

 

[shaunmulok]

Given that you are feeding every time its likely nute build-up burn.
House and Garden makes a product called "drip clean." It prevents this problem in most cases. Krunchbubble uses it and has written it up.
Another option is flushing and reducing frequency and amount of feeding. Remember nutes don't create yield; rather nutes facilitate and support yield and growth. Genetics and environment determine yield.

Also, you said that was week 5 approaching week 6? From my experience it looks like the bud development has been delayed. ?Perhaps from too much N? Perhaps...

i was flushing with plain water every Sunday which always brought my runoff down lower than what i feed at and i always water with a 20%runoff perhaps more so i dont think its build-up

I have read Krunchbubble's thread about the drip clean and considered it, thanks

I don't think bud development has suffered...there is some big buds in there and still another 6 weeks to go they are going to be massive here is some latest pics


I have also changed the batteries in my hygrometer and it looks like my night temps have been getting as low as 12Deg C and i understand that the Uptake of P+K can be effected by low temps so i got to get a heater to fix that
Thanks for your advice attila76

 

[attila76]

I have also changed the batteries in my hygrometer and it looks like my night temps have been getting as low as 12Deg C and i understand that the Uptake of P+K can be effected by low temps so i got to get a heater to fix that
Thanks for your advice attila76[/QUOTE]

Now your on to something.... My foaf's plants are looking quite similar, he had the same cold snap. 52f for a few nights, in my foaf's case. They got pretty shocked, lost a lot of leaves. Sometimes this happens when dialing it in.