Are We Being Ripped Off By Nutrient Companies And Hydro Stores
- Thread starter Skunklover
- Start date
Motta-Tokka
Member
WTF is FFOF
yea i gotta agree. i personally am using earth juice products to begin and just learn how to read my plants and figure out deficiencies and what not, but people have grown without all the labels and used from animals and the earth and its worked forever.
Read the MaxiBloom threads...
Plenty of folks have switched... including myself. I won't use the Floralicious+ due to the ingredients... but I have no qualms with the Maxibloom by itself.
At 12$ for 2.2lbs of a dry fert.... it's really inexpensive as well.
Stay Safe!
Dorje113
Member
I'm done with FFOF. Too hot on N out of the bag and then the N just tanks suddenly, seen it happen a few times now. I'd rather start without so much N and use some Earth Juice Grow to fine tune the mix. FFOF is too hot to add more N until the plant uses it, then it can go N deficient if you don't see it fast enough. I have a Sour D that's a N hog and it suddenly went N-def. in a 20 gal smart pot after a week into 12/12. Not the best timing for that.
I usually just buy whatever organic dry ferts are in stock at the time and add 'em to my (re-used) soil after every run, and usually use a dilute EJ mix to fine tune it.
I don't feel like EJ is too expensive, with a discount its just over $20/gal. Sure you can make it for less, but then you have to make it. If I want to make it, it would be for the experience, not because I feel like I'm saving money. My ferts are a small expense relative to electricity and co2.
There is other stuff you pay too much for, like insulated flexible ducting (check Home Depot), $20 triac motor speed controls ($4 at HD), etc...
I usually just buy whatever organic dry ferts are in stock at the time and add 'em to my (re-used) soil after every run, and usually use a dilute EJ mix to fine tune it.
I don't feel like EJ is too expensive, with a discount its just over $20/gal. Sure you can make it for less, but then you have to make it. If I want to make it, it would be for the experience, not because I feel like I'm saving money. My ferts are a small expense relative to electricity and co2.
There is other stuff you pay too much for, like insulated flexible ducting (check Home Depot), $20 triac motor speed controls ($4 at HD), etc...
I use Jack's Classic, a Canna-friendly, complete, commercial fertilizer - All-Purpose in veg and Bloom in flower. I've tested JC against Maxibloom and PBP over the course of 3 cycles. PBP was very good. Maxibloom not so much. I've also tested JC against GH. Suffice it to say, that I only use Jack's these days. No nutrient deficiencies, no burned plants, no mess, and fairly inexpensive. I spend less than $100 per year on nutes to run a 3600w flowering room and 800-1200w of veg. The results can be seen in my gallery. Good luck.
Simon
funkymonkey
Member
I grow in coco and I mix my own nutes from the raw salts. I can buy all the raw salts at my local garden centre and a few kilos costs me less than one litre bottle of branded liquid nutrient. Only reason I ever go to a hydro store is to buy coco as there isn't anywhere else here that sells it.
Yeah simon, we used Peters back in the day and it worked great. Now I learned to make my own grow and bloom 20 some years ago because I got into hydro's and they do rip you off when you buy hydro ferts.
"$20 triac motor speed controls ($4 at HD), etc..." Home Depot has these for $4?
"$20 triac motor speed controls ($4 at HD), etc..." Home Depot has these for $4?
No... they have a cheap dimmer switch for room lights for $4.... definitely NOT a triac.
Stay Safe!
(that includes electrical safety)
Dorje113
Member
No... they have a cheap dimmer switch for room lights for $4.... definitely NOT a triac.
Stay Safe!
Yes, it is. Potentiometers are rarely sold as dimmers anymore. Here's the one I'm talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0N3QTC4J0A0JMANZPHV7
It says it has a RFI interference filter, these are needed on triacs and not potentiometers.
Motor speed control is a complicated subject, suffice it to say that most popular axial fans can be controlled with a $4 triac based dimmer switch at Home Depot. The ones for ceiling fans are basically the same, but have discreet speed positions (Hi, Med Low), and switch different capacitors into the circuit for different speeds to eliminate any possible hum. Can fan has a variac they sell for speed control, but it's expensive...
Skunklover
Member
Outstanding info in this thread so far. Thanks all, exactly what I was hoping for. Let's hear some more 
S
staff11
In short, yes.
T
tokinafaty420
I am not. I pay $8/qt for my nutes. 3 bottles in total every 2 or 3 grows. I'd say for $24 it is well worth the time and energy I save from not having to figure out how to mix the stuff myself.
S
staff11
It really depends on what you use. Advanced Nutrients anything is overpriced for what you get. Just compare it to other products that use the same ingredients. It's not all that hard to figure out that companies like Advanced are trying to make a huge profit.
I mean just look at the price of Voodoo juice which the same thing can be made for pennies on the dollar by making your own compost teas......
I mean just look at the price of Voodoo juice which the same thing can be made for pennies on the dollar by making your own compost teas......
Of course we are getting ripped off. If you take a look at the label of a nute bottle of liquid, you will see the ingredients and the concentration.
I have my local fertilizer company make special blends for me using these same chemicals all the time. Depending on where I am in the growing season we change the N-P-K ratios and add other macro or micro elements. We usually take delivery on 500 gal at a time. I can't remember it I've ever paid more then $500 for a mix. Less then $1 a gallon.
It is always high grade material since we irrigate via drip irrigation and cannot tolerate plugging.
So I'd say there is at least a 500% up charge on their products before shipping.
I have my local fertilizer company make special blends for me using these same chemicals all the time. Depending on where I am in the growing season we change the N-P-K ratios and add other macro or micro elements. We usually take delivery on 500 gal at a time. I can't remember it I've ever paid more then $500 for a mix. Less then $1 a gallon.
It is always high grade material since we irrigate via drip irrigation and cannot tolerate plugging.
So I'd say there is at least a 500% up charge on their products before shipping.
N
NinoBrown420
I have recently discovered that the local greenhouse has everything one needs for a fraction of the price...bought 2 kilos 0-15-1 gaia green bat guano for $25 at the hydro store,bought 10 kilos of the exact same product at the greenhouse for,wait for it...$35.That really put things into perspective for me,that yes,hydro stores are a rip off when it comes to implementing a soil garden(organic or otherwise),but where the fuck else are you gonna go to buy a flood table, HID lights and salt based nutes for a hydro setup?I guess they are a necessary evil for all hydro growers.
Exactly. Hydro stores and the like are able to mark up prices out the ass simply because you can't find the products anywhere else and most people are more than likely very wary of ordering their grow supplies on line and having them shipped to their grow house.
But raw materials will always be cheaper, pretty much in every industry.
TexasMonster
Member
I would love to hear more about those dried NPK pellets. Is there such a thing or were you just being funny and really meant cow manure or something? I am curious. I know one thing, I aint buying that expensive stuff. I live on acres here and I garden on a small commercial scale (organic peppers & tomatoes). I have 3 large compost piles going all the time. I use my tractor to turn them over once a month. Makes for fine vegetables and bud. I use dry leaves, chicken manure, horse manure and whatever comes out of the kitchen to be composted (eggs shells, coffee grounds, chopped up vegetable parts not used in meal etc etc) Never do I use meats or processed foods in my compost.
Of course, I grow in dirt. I can see where hydro guys need to spend the money on nutes but look at what they get in return and look at what they learn in return. Someday I will try the hydro thing. Maybe I can extend my tomato and pepper harvest that way too
TexMon 
