CALIFORNIA VOTERS ONLY--SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGALIZED AND TAXED AND REGULATED?

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am trying to get a feeling if the Tc2010 initiative has any chance of passage in California in November? Or support from any growers?
In the USA over 800,000 people a year are arrested for Cannabis, this has to stop.
Few growers seem to want the government to Tax and Regulate Cannabis. Many fear loss of income, and competition from big biz agriculture as well as government interference.
Consumers want lower prices, and safe Cannabis to consume that is free of molds, contaminates, poisons like insecticides, fungicides, or herbicides, as well as any pest insects.
I support the tax and regulate initiative for the simple reason it is the only way on the horizon to end the over 800,000 arrests a year in the USA. First California then the rest of the states is my hope.
I have fought for 45 years to have Cannabis brought into the mainstream, and I understand the easiest way may well be to give big biz a piece of the pie, to grow and sell Cannabis, and government a piece by taxing and regulating the industry like they do with alcohol. I want Cannabis to be brought into the mainstream.
I know that if Cannabis is taxed and sold legally people will not go to jail for growing a personal supply at home. I also suspect few people will grow at home after a decade of legal Cannabis at the 7-11. Maybe about the same that make their own beer or wine, less then .01% of drinkers.
To me the real decision growers need to make before they cast their ballot in November is do they care more about their personal income then the 800,000 plus arrested each year?
I would find it more then unbelievable if the reason the initiative fails by a few % is because of Cannabis growers in the state not wanting to lose their income. For growers to join ranks with the cops, prison guards, prohibitionists, federal government jerks from the DEA and NIDA, to defeat the initiative would be really a sad day for Cannabis, and me.
So lets hear, if you are a California voter and grower, just why you will support or not support the Tax and Regulate initiative this November?

-SamS

 

[markscastle]

I`m voting No in November! This law sucks! It puts two new felony laws against MJ users on the books,Taxes, Controls,and Regulates us as promissed.Why in God`s good green earth would anyone even consider this piece of sh*t law? With 215 in place we have no need for any of this bunk law anyway! And despite what some people think if it passes it would not be step in the right direction or easy to change later! Keep trying Richard Lee as if you don`t make enough $ off poor sick people already!

 

[joe fresh]

well, im not from cali, and i dont know what the legislation is offering exactly, sorry for posting if you didnt want me to Sam,

but in the context of just legalizing...
i for one would love the idea of legalizing and taxing weed, i grow on a large scale, and i absolutely love growing weed, i would love to be 100% legal and pay taxes, if it were legal i would be ok with selling lbs of AAA for 500 each...or what ever is the average price, it really wouldnt matter, it would be nice to own a buisness that i could have a greenhouse with 100+ lights in it and 1000's of plants.

the other end of the spectrum is that it would also be legal to produce and breed seeds, so you would be able to breed on a large scale if wanted.

i just think that it would make things much easier for everyone.

the ppl that dont want to are the greedy ones who like the prices at 4500 a lb....i for one would like to be able to sell a product cheap, just produce more.....


the problem is we have too many ppl who love $$ and not enough that love the plant....


just thaught id add...if you want to be rich......dream BIG...dont rip ppl off with high prices because of your greed-----not intended to be at anyone in particular, just the greedy growers that like the price high

 

[markscastle]

Problem is it would be impossible to grow large grows or make any money unless you are Richard Lee,if this law passes.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Propblem is it would be impossible to grow large grows or make any money unless you are Richard Lee,if this law passes.

So just to be clear, markscastle, you say keep Cannabis illegal and keep arresting the over 800,000 yearly?

BTW if you think Richard Lee has the wherewithall to compete with the big agricultural business's or the big alcohol or tobacco companies then you are smoking to much.
They already have contract growers, facilities to dry, process, as well as the trucks to distribute and contacts with retail liquor distributors as well as the experience of doing it with alcohol and tobacco for decades.

Your fear of Richard Lee would be laughable except you really believe it. Wise up, some one will be the biggest grower if legal.

And your if real fear is about you losing money, what about the over 800,000 arrests a year? Or is that good to keep prices high?
Unbelievable, think before you post....

-SamS

 

[markscastle]

So just to be clear, markscastle, you say keep Cannabis illegal and keep arresting the over 800,000 yearly?

BTW if you think Richard Lee has the wherewithall to compete with the big agricultural business's or the big alcohol or tobacco companies then you are smoking to much.
They already have contract growers, facilities to dry, process, as well as the trucks to distribute and contacts with retail liquor distributors as well as the experience of doing it with alcohol and tobacco for decades.

Your fear of Richard Lee would be laughable except you really believe it. Wise up, some one will be the biggest grower if legal.

And your if real fear is about you losing money, what about the over 800,000 arrests a year? Or is that good to keep prices high?
Unbelievable, think before you post....

-SamS

Not one person will be saved from arest with the Tax,Control and Regulate law! It won`t take anyone out of jail ether! In fact it would put many more people in jail! it is only an infraction of the Health and Safety code in California to have up to an oz. * if you have no doctor`s recomendation under Prop 215. Instead of maybe getting a ticket you will pay everytime in the way of taxes and not just the $50 but unknown amounts to be added with no over sight of local goverments if this law passes. You will be allowed under this law to grow up to a 5x5 area, but again local zoning laws could and will be placed against growers as allowed in this law. That means everyone would have to go to Oaksterdam for there oz of `legal` MJ and they couldn`t even smoke it in any public place because ,again this law makes it a crime to smoke `near` any minor (near is not defined under this proposed law). To many restrictions,Regulations and way to much tax and local control is built into this law for me.It`s nothing like I invision when you say legalization of MJ! I will not be voting for this law and like it or not many other informed people who use mj will not ether!

 

[markscastle]

Ferther more anyone who has headaches,mussel pain,sore joints,and almost a hang neil can get a doctor`s recomendation,even children who have a parents permission.They can grow any amount or have any amount of `medication` anywhere they want.They can smoke anywhere it is legal to smoke tobacco at in public. Why do we need this law? Now if it were written more in line with the Jack Herer initiative I would vote for it. I might even go as far as to allow sales tax on any none medical MJ sold.But that`s as far as I`ll go! Goverment can get out of my biz when it comes to MJ!

 

[mrdizzle]

Im more for decriminalizing it complete than a tax and regulate so I will be voting no as well. Many of these 800,000 arrest would probably still be arrested if the legalization bill passes because they would still be breaking the new cannibs laws, IE smoking in public, carrying over an ounce ect.

 

[markscastle]

Also the 800,000 figure was for the United States and not just Cali.I do wish to see our state laws improved and hope a `grass` roots effort will come about in the future. I would welcome Richard Lee and other backers of this law to join us and have hope that best intrests of the people of our state will make this possible! But please lets leave the greed at home!

 

[b00m]

I really hope the people of california are able to get their say in votes, cause whatever california/USA does, australia is watching and eventually/hopefully will be able to follow suite one day too. Sending you mob lots of good vibes

 

[jjblunt]

Not one person will be saved from arest with the Tax,Control and Regulate law! It won`t take anyone out of jail ether! In fact it would put many more people in jail!

how the heck do you figure that? MORE people in jail? LOL I agree it wont release any current offenders but how will this put more people in jail for cannabis if it is completely legal to possess/grow/smoke. sure we can all get medical licenses but why? We are just abusing the system then, but in November we have a chance to CHANGE the system.

People seem to forget what criminal penalties this initiative is REMOVING, like possession, cultivation, paraphernalia, blah blah. With this bill I can legally grow my own in 25 sq ft without fear of criminal prosecution. How can people who grow for personal use be against THAT? Even if you are medical and get your grow discovered, chances are you will be fighting it in court anyways to prove medical necessity because there are still state laws against cannabis. Cops just do the arrest now, ask questions later routine. This will make it 100% legal for anyone 21 and over to do, fan-fucking-tastic.

You will be allowed under this law to grow up to a 5x5 area, but again local zoning laws could and will be placed against growers as allowed in this law. That means everyone would have to go to Oaksterdam for there oz of `legal` MJ

If you actually READ the bill the local government does NOT regulate if you can grow in your residence for personal use, it can only regulate the commercial end of it. If this bill passes, you will be able to grow and smoke your own regardless of the policies about commercial sales your local government adopts. And why the hell does everyone thing Richard Lee is the only one that is going to make money on cannabis? You don't think other big entities will seize the opportunity? After all, Budweiser's old catch phrase is "This Buds for you". :friends:

From Tax Cannabis 2010 initiative:

(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:
(i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;
(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;
(iii) consumption by the operator of any vehicle, boat or aircraft while it is being operated, or that impairs the operator;
(iv) smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present.

Those are the only new laws against cannabis as far as I can tell, which are pretty common sense if you ask me, and they are very similar to alcohol possession and consumption laws. I agree "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" needs to be more clearly defined.

I know the initiative is not perfect, but its a fantastic start that will greatly effect how the rest of the USA views and acts toward cannabis. I will be voting YES in November.

 

[Neo 420]

I will be voting yes for this unprecedented and historical beginning of the end.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Not one person will be saved from arest with the Tax,Control and Regulate law! It won`t take anyone out of jail ether! In fact it would put many more people in jail! it is only an infraction of the Health and Safety code in California to have up to an oz. * if you have no doctor`s recomendation under Prop 215. Instead of maybe getting a ticket you will pay everytime in the way of taxes and not just the $50 but unknown amounts to be added with no over sight of local goverments if this law passes. You will be allowed under this law to grow up to a 5x5 area, but again local zoning laws could and will be placed against growers as allowed in this law. That means everyone would have to go to Oaksterdam for there oz of `legal` MJ and they couldn`t even smoke it in any public place because ,again this law makes it a crime to smoke `near` any minor (near is not defined under this proposed law). To many restrictions,Regulations and way to much tax and local control is built into this law for me.It`s nothing like I invision when you say legalization of MJ! I will not be voting for this law and like it or not many other informed people who use mj will not ether!

Informed people? And you say "but again local zoning laws could and will be placed against growers as allowed in this law." you need to reread the law, and stop spreading lies. Local municipalities zoning laws can't prevent cultivation for personal use as long as growers follow the law as to amounts as well as no medical patients having no restrictions under Tc2010.

What is your plan to end the over 800,000 people arrested every year in the USA?

"it is only an infraction of the Health and Safety code in California to have up to an oz. * if you have no doctor`s recomendation under Prop 215."

Not if you grow it without a doctors recommendation, check the laws for cultivation in California.

You are so uninformed it is a joke. I suspect for you it is all about the money, not the 800,000 arrests every year? Sad, dude.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Also the 800,000 figure was for the United States and not just Cali.I do wish to see our state laws improved and hope a `grass` roots effort will come about in the future. I would welcome Richard Lee and other backers of this law to join us and have hope that best intrests of the people of our state will make this possible! But please lets leave the greed at home!

What are you trying to say that the 800,000+ don't count because they are not all from Calif?
Who is being greedy, growers that want to protect their income or voters trying to change the over 800,000 arrests every year? Twisted to say the least.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

how the heck do you figure that? MORE people in jail? LOL I agree it wont release any current offenders but how will this put more people in jail for cannabis if it is completely legal to possess/grow/smoke. sure we can all get medical licenses but why? We are just abusing the system then, but in November we have a chance to CHANGE the system.

People seem to forget what criminal penalties this initiative is REMOVING, like possession, cultivation, paraphernalia, blah blah. With this bill I can legally grow my own in 25 sq ft without fear of criminal prosecution. How can people who grow for personal use be against THAT? Even if you are medical and get your grow discovered, chances are you will be fighting it in court anyways to prove medical necessity because there are still state laws against cannabis. Cops just do the arrest now, ask questions later routine. This will make it 100% legal for anyone 21 and over to do, fan-fucking-tastic.




If you actually READ the bill the local government does NOT regulate if you can grow in your residence for personal use, it can only regulate the commercial end of it. If this bill passes, you will be able to grow and smoke your own regardless of the policies about commercial sales your local government adopts. And why the hell does everyone thing Richard Lee is the only one that is going to make money on cannabis? You don't think other big entities will seize the opportunity? After all, Budweiser's old catch phrase is "This Buds for you". :friends:

From Tax Cannabis 2010 initiative:
(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:
(i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;
(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;
(iii) consumption by the operator of any vehicle, boat or aircraft while it is being operated, or that impairs the operator;
(iv) smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present.

Those are the only new laws against cannabis as far as I can tell, which are pretty common sense if you ask me, and they are very similar to alcohol possession and consumption laws. I agree "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" needs to be more clearly defined.

I know the initiative is not perfect, but its a fantastic start that will greatly effect how the rest of the USA views and acts toward cannabis. I will be voting YES in November.

I agree!
-SamS

 

[stonedstoner]

i am a cali resident. i am down with taxation and regulation of cannabis but not the way the november initiative does it. i think the 25 sq ft of growing space is too little. it's not enough space to run several strains. i think we should just wait a couple years until another better initiative makes it on the 2012 ballot for a vote. why didn't any of the other initiatives make it onto the ballot? i hadn't read any of the other ones but i do remember that jack herer had written one. i bet that one was better.

 

[MedResearcher]

Gonna vote Yes on it.

Reasons: Anything that allows me to farm without fear of prosecution is a positive step. Competition drives me, and I am not insecure of my skills, motivation, and will to succeed. Most of the growers that will vote No, have inferior mid to low grade product and most likely will be pushed out of the business, which they should be imo.

Making profit off the 215 laws seems all good and dandy until its your turn to be a victim; get busted, get everything seized, and come out with nothing. If you dont think this is happening everyday, then you need to become more informed. Regardless of respecting the limits, using collectives, having attorneys, etc.. etc.. at any time you can and possible will be busted and robbed of everything you own.

With the new bill, we will be able to purchase local permits which should help a lot imo.

 

[ajc0k]

yea means the state wil have a huge phone book of larger scale growers in all areas with your new permit... either way im fine with prop 215, no problems with that. my boy walked into medicann with nothing on him no papers, proof and came out with a card, anyone who picks up the phone and schedules an appointment can get a damn recommendation, and why would anyone want richard lee to make a lot more money? corporate is going to step in

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

i am a cali resident. i am down with taxation and regulation of cannabis but not the way the november initiative does it. i think the 25 sq ft of growing space is too little. it's not enough space to run several strains. i think we should just wait a couple years until another better initiative makes it on the 2012 ballot for a vote. why didn't any of the other initiatives make it onto the ballot? i hadn't read any of the other ones but i do remember that jack herer had written one. i bet that one was better.

Right, what happened to all the other Cannabis bills? They got nowhere and did nothing to begin the change to stop the over 800,000 arrests a year. Every year it is the same, this initiative needs to be voted in to begin to stop the War on Cannabis.
I can't believe how many growers will vote NO, to protect their livelihood, even if it means another 800,000+ arrests per year.
Shame on you...
Sure 25 square feet is to small for some, get a doctors recommendation if you need more space to grow personal.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

yea means the state wil have a huge phone book of larger scale growers in all areas with your new permit... either way im fine with prop 215, no problems with that. my boy walked into medicann with nothing on him no papers, proof and came out with a card, anyone who picks up the phone and schedules an appointment can get a damn recommendation, and why would anyone want richard lee to make a lot more money? corporate is going to step in

Is that a yes or a no? For Tax and Regulation?
I am for people like Lee making more money, he used $1,000,000 of his own money to try and change the laws, to me that is a good thing.
I hope corporations do step in, I want Cannabis normalized and mainstream, taxed and regulated.

-SamS