I'm wondering if anyone here has used the following AN products In dwc system? Iguana juice, tarantula and piranha. I am currently using these three organic nutes in my dwc and i am getting brown roots... Not root rot, I don't think anyway..... The roots are not smelly just brownish and there is a little bit of foam on top of res. Most of the discoloration is between the top of the res and the bottom of my net pots. I'm hoping the brown roots are just from the organics. Also it seems that not all the tarantula wants to disolve, Lea ing a black sandy deposit in the bottom of res. There is no light leaking into res and the roots under water are alot whiter than the roots in the air..... Any one else have any dwc experiance with these products?
Advanced nutrients organics in dwc..... Any one have any xp?
- Thread starter Jjburnout
- Start date
Tonyton
Active member
I did the same thing when I started out with AN Organic Nutes, the brown stuff is the microbe organism in the water reproducing and colonizing the root zone. When the bubbles pop the enzymes from the microbe dispers in the air on the roots thats not in the water thats why the roots look brown from the emzymes. I'm a soil grower now but I bubble every know and again. I made a bubble cloner that works wonders.
You should be fine. Yes the organics will darken the roots. Be careful how much you add. Once the colonies are established, they shouldn't need as much beneficials per rez change. Weekly, right?'
You should add a submerseable recirculating pump. Put the pump in a paint filter bag, available at all paint departments.
You should add a submerseable recirculating pump. Put the pump in a paint filter bag, available at all paint departments.
Yes...I do weekly res changes and i am following the AN calculator.... Its my first time using organics in DWC and im just trying to get these nutes all dialed in....im glad that the brown roots are nothing to be worried about............ so is it necessary to use the beneficials every change?
thanks for the input
thanks for the input
dwarfganja
Member
I think your going to find no matter what nutes you use in DWC there is going to be a bit of nute deposit in the bottom. Prob why peeps use RDWC?
How often do you drain your res? My res gets a drain every 7 to 10 days to keep fresh nutes in the res at all times.
How often do you drain your res? My res gets a drain every 7 to 10 days to keep fresh nutes in the res at all times.
Yeah thAt's true with the water pump it stirs the mix more consistantly hence not as much residue at bottom but regardless ull be fine. I use an airwand at the bottom help a lifttle More cuz was bubbling little more all over but ull be fine following an schedule. Even cut
a little out once Its established
a little out once Its established
mexicanweed
New member
so i can use just iguana on hidro, just measuring the ec levels??
i thought that it can be used just in soil....
o have a coco grow here , so i can go for it?iguanass?
thanx!
i thought that it can be used just in soil....
o have a coco grow here , so i can go for it?iguanass?
thanx!
Stonercool
Member
yeah, you can use the AN line on every growing system, can't you? Of course, I've only been using it in soil or hydro basic setups. Yes, you always have to check your levels...always!
Iguana is the biz-omb. Lots of growth, lots of great results.
Just call up the guys at Advanced Nutrients and they'll tell you how to work with each nute, I would imagine. They also have a neato app for iPhones and ITouches...
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/advanced-nutrients-calc/id368441830?mt=8
I have to download it again today since my Iphone went all wonky this weekend....
good luck!
H2o2 will fix up your res without having to use Physan. Unless you have advanced stage Blown algae bloom, h2o2 will work just fine & much less hassle! It dissipates after 24 hours after application,so further apps are required, every 24 hours, but only use it if your not using organics and/or if you have a root infection. H2o2 will destroy your micro heard, break down anything organic rendering it useless, so only use h2o2 if you have a root problem when using organics.
Sounds normal. Sometimes the humic acids in piranha and tarantula can stain your roots a brownish color. Keep rockin those beneficials though, it'll keep your roots healthier which equals more nutrient uptake.
Peace
KB
Humics in Piranha & Tarantula? really? and you own a store or work for one? Sorry but your info is terribly inaccurate.
TooHigh, it has bro, i checked, here are the ingredients! of Pirana:
Ectomycorrhizal Fungi
Endomycorrhizal Fungi
Humic Acid
Leonardite
Trichoderma
didnt bother checking Turantula!
Ectomycorrhizal Fungi
Endomycorrhizal Fungi
Humic Acid
Leonardite
Trichoderma
didnt bother checking Turantula!
R
RNDZL
the microbial life that plagues hydroponic gardens is managed in two manners
the archaic method of sterility (check out staff outbreak in hospitals, not all that effective).
the modern method of managing microbial life for the benefit of plant health.
you can use anaerobic bio-control and add aerobic and facultative anaerobic bacteria easier and cheaper than you can sterilize and maintain sterility
there are far more to microbes than nutrient cycling
the archaic method of sterility (check out staff outbreak in hospitals, not all that effective).
the modern method of managing microbial life for the benefit of plant health.
you can use anaerobic bio-control and add aerobic and facultative anaerobic bacteria easier and cheaper than you can sterilize and maintain sterility
there are far more to microbes than nutrient cycling
Huh...not sure I actually understand a word of this, but it sounds like a good thing?
Funny how this thread sort of moved away from the first question. Well, it seems like it anyway.
My two cents? Organics can be a pain, no matter what brand you use and what growing method you use. They're temperamental and a bit too much for someone like me. Chemically stuff just seems to work out better in my room.
Uh, the link you cited says:
A facultative anaerobic organism is an organism, usually a bacterium, that makes ATP by aerobic respiration if oxygen is present but is also capable of switching to fermentation. In contrast, obligate anaerobes die in presence of oxygen.
Some examples of facultative anaerobic bacteria are Staphylococcus (Gram positive), Escherichia coli (Gram negative), and Listeria (Gram positive). Certain eukaryote phyla are also facultative anaerobes, including fungi such as yeasts and many aquatic invertebrates such as Nereid (worm) polychaetes, for example.[1] There are also circulating white blood cells that are classified as facultative anaerobes. These include neutrophils, monocytes and tissue macrophages.
I don't want staph, E.Coli or listeria anywhere near me or my meds, thank you, and white blood cells probably wouldn't survive in any reservoir.
Yeasts maybe, but I haven't seen much research on keeping yeast colonies in hydroponic reservoirs for gardening, have you? I don't know that they would like the cooler temps and all. I just don't see the addition of any anaerobic bacteria as being beneficial to making the aerobic bacteria any happier.
And again, having a live res bubbling with bacteria and fungi (if they live) isn't ideal for most hydroponic systems. Pumps clog very quickly, drippers get clogged, and we all know the pump filter bags don't work for shit. Plus with any live res, more carbs need to be added daily to maintain a food supply for any living organisms.
Keeping a dead res isn't hard, add DM Zone (chloramine) or h202, physan, whatever you want.
RNDZL, how do you measure the efficacy and health of the bacteria and fungi in your reservoir?
R
RNDZL
understandable fear till you understand the potential for e.coli. and other negative bacteria to effect marijuana gardens and users, a topic I could dedicate a thread to alone.
I think after reading the total response you will see that it is accounted for so please at least read this in it entirety to see if you understand how that in my hybrid system is completely mitigated
on a quick note, bacteria like e.coli dont survive the heat of an open flame, but some of the ingredients of fungicides and pesticides do
and we have evolved to live with these bacteria in our environment and bodies, not these other substances
yeast and fungi seem to be more important in parts of the soil web that carry over season to season
anaerobic bacteria do not have a place in our hydro gardens, in fact, a the byproduct of a good hydro system, a balance of h2o and oxygen, is that its a hostile environment to anaerobic bacteria
because you are thinking of using organic precursors to brew bacteria instead of taking bacteria that were cultivated specifically for hydroponics
this is science used in pond and aquariums too
Bio-cat is one product made for this and is cross platform
it has some good info regarding how bacteria help hydro, and that is why i reference it
bio cat info on nutrilife web site
By creating a biologically active solution, Bio-Cat enhances and advances the science of hydroponics and plant horticulture for those who are employing inorganic or organic nutrients for the growing of plants.
The biologically active solution consists of organic and inorganic nutrients inoculated with selected micro-organisms to create a living environment, which enhances the growth, development, taste, smell and texture of fruits and vegetables.
Bio-Cat uses a broader spectrum of trace elements than traditional hydroponics. Furthermore, Bio-Cat establishes the Kreb’s cycle in nutrient reservoirs, (a complex chemical reaction essential to the manufacture and breakdown of plant acids) and builds a mixed colony of growth promoting micro-organisms.
Advantages of Bio-Cat
The beneficial micro-biological organisms in Bio-Cat enhances organic and “sterile” inorganic nutrient solutions in the following ways:
Bio-Cat helps reduce the need for frequent nutrient changes. A mixed colony of non-pathogenic beneficial microbes will support each other with their metabolites, creating a self-regulating environment without the recurring imbalances in pH and nutrient levels found in “sterile” inorganic nutrient solutions.
Bio-Cat organisms help prevent trace elements from “locking up” and stabilize pH.
Bacteria increases the rate of photosynthesis. In a number of plants the microbial action doubles the rate of photosynthesis, which means that crop production is less affected by diminished light availability.
cheaper to use bacteria and keep it alive with bacteria the plant has evolved to use for the same purpose and to much better effect
bacteria become resistant to non bio-controls
the bio cat bacterial benefits listed are only tip of the ice berg. research the bacteria in it and tell me what uses modern agriculture has found for them
I understand your fears, but in the applications I suggest they are unfounded
In any system that breeds bacteria, you need to have precursors that will contain the bacteria you want to culture
the simple answer is regulate by adding just the bacteria you want and look for measurable results
the cause and effect of healthy bacteria are you should see a need to drop PPM in your nutes. So often i see people use the base AN line, then add some of AN benies, they hit it with the same amount of nutes and they get burn
thats an example of microbes at work
You should see a huge reduction of any pathogen, drought or pest based incident. A rhizoshpere with a ton of beneficial bacteria is absolutely evident
but a simple hand fed plant or two thrown in side by side could also provide a visual comparison, anything worth while and you should see a differential in health
you cannot just make create bacteria from nothing in a sterile environment. In fact IMHO sterile is impracticable. Sterile systems, who's conditions are perfect in supporting microbial, must be kept sterile or they are a perfect incubator for any ambient bacteria that find their way to your sterile grow.
This is why so many guys get a system rocking .. WHAM root rot, PM or some other pathogen completely overtakes the garden overnight.
If there were already bacteria in the system, the new bacteria that re exposed to the system would have to fight those existing population to create a foot hold in your system.
You can assure that your system has only aerobic and facultative anaerobes by simply adding air. and or additives such as sm-90
I have used sm-90, aquashield and bud candy as a active and fed bacterial feed source quite with alternate feedings are pure blend original and.or synthetics and hydroplex, thats it/
my feeling is that you are confusing having to make your bacteria, which is normally done form a source that has a huge spectrum of bacteria like bat shit, which could contain anything really, opposed to buying lab cultivated and safe bacteria and adding them and promoting their populations exclusively
RNDZL:
I understand what at you are getting at but I think it is a regiment that takes more discipline and knowledge than you give it. It takes really knowing what you put in system down to a granular level. I have seen well maintained DWC's go down in days, with no real way to analyze what happened. Growing itself is a art and then to really have to dig deep into microbial life in hydro setups is too much. Sterile rez's makes life so much easier and it allows me to have a life, if you under dig me?
I just learned the hard way Humb Nutes flavorful has molasses, but I just wanted the fulvic acid and boyahh. That combined with my ZHO and other microbe life caused me a little break out that I am just really getting under control. I make no claims to me being any type of micro expert and truthfully I don't want to. Now if you could put together some type of guideline (with laymen's examples) that demonstrate how to achieve this, I will be the first to give it a try.
I understand what at you are getting at but I think it is a regiment that takes more discipline and knowledge than you give it. It takes really knowing what you put in system down to a granular level. I have seen well maintained DWC's go down in days, with no real way to analyze what happened. Growing itself is a art and then to really have to dig deep into microbial life in hydro setups is too much. Sterile rez's makes life so much easier and it allows me to have a life, if you under dig me?
I just learned the hard way Humb Nutes flavorful has molasses, but I just wanted the fulvic acid and boyahh. That combined with my ZHO and other microbe life caused me a little break out that I am just really getting under control. I make no claims to me being any type of micro expert and truthfully I don't want to. Now if you could put together some type of guideline (with laymen's examples) that demonstrate how to achieve this, I will be the first to give it a try.
