Weak/Thin Stems, Seedlings Dying

[Sol Invictus]

Strain: AK99
Medium: Eco Earth Coco Fiber
Container: 18 oz Solo Cups
Lighting: (2)Two 100-watt Daylight (5000k) CFL's

-I soaked the seeds in water for 24 hours.
-I then planted the seeds directly into the coco, approx 1/4" down.
-After 4 days all 10 seeds had germinated.

I initially had the lights about 1 foot from the cups, which caused the plants to stretch.

Stem length ranges from 1" to 2" in height.

Three of the seedlings with the taller stems (2 inches) fell over, and I noticed the stem was VERY thin. I tried holding them up with plastic straws, but they have not recovered. Now today, two more of the plants have the same problem. I have only watered once, since I planted the seeds into the coco, which was seven days ago, so I don't think I'm over watering.

The top inch of coco is dry, but the coco below that is still moist.

The seedlings only have the two cotyledons, and very small first set of leaves.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[Snype]

If you only watered once in 7 days then you over watered. You should barely give them any water so that you can water them every day or 2. I water seedlings with about 4 Tablespoons of water and I use a sprayer to mist the top of the medium. You should also have a dome over them so they are nice and humid so the roots can grow nice and healthy. If you don't want the rest of your plants to fall over all you have to do is pack some more coco in there as it stretches.

 

[resin_lung]

Sounds like another case of damping off. Pics would really help. does the stem go from thin at soil level to thick(normal) higher up?
http://www.uvm.edu/pss/ppp/pubs/gd9.htm

 

[Sol Invictus]

Just to clarify, I haven't actually "watered" since I put the seeds into the coco. The coco was a little damp to begin with, and I misted them yesterday for the first time.

 

[trichosaurus]

You cannot treat coco coir the same as soil. Coco should be watered at least once daily. Sounds like there is a lot for you to read....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577

good luck

 

[Sol Invictus]

You cannot treat coco coir the same as soil. Coco should be watered at least once daily. Sounds like there is a lot for you to read....

Do you think under watering is the problem? Wouldn't daily watering be too much at this early stage? This coco is very fine (coffee ground consistency) and holds A LOT of water.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Added pics.

 

[Snype]

When you put the seeds in the Coco, I would have misted the top of the coco with about 4 Table spoons of water. Then I would have put them in a dome because you need a lot of humidity for initial root growth and open the air valve. When you put the dome on, the moisture in the coco will redistribute itself like it would when you put an orange peel for people who moisen up their dried buds. Because I would have given them just some water spray, it wouldn't have pentetrated your coco like you did and it would have needed to be watered again in 1 or 2 days. So basically you want to give them just drops of water at first so you can water them again the next day. As it grows you give it a little more water until you have a big root system then you give them a real watering.

 

[Sol Invictus]

When you put the seeds in the Coco, I would have misted the top of the coco with about 4 Table spoons of water. Then I would have put them in a dome because you need a lot of humidity for initial root growth and open the air valve. When you put the dome on, the moisture in the coco will redistribute itself like it would when you put an orange peel for people who moisen up their dried buds. Because I would have given them just some water spray, it wouldn't have pentetrated your coco like you did and it would have needed to be watered again in 1 or 2 days. So basically you want to give them just drops of water at first so you can water them again the next day. As it grows you give it a little more water until you have a big root system then you give them a real watering.

To this day I've never given them a real watering.

Before I planted the seeds, the coco was just barely moist.. just enough to darken the coco. After I planted the seeds, I misted daily, to keep the top layer moist. Once they popped though the soil, I moved them under the CFL's. Since they've been under the lights, I only misted ONE TIME (yesterday).

I really don't think that I've over-watered. Does overwatering cause the stem to shrink up, like in the pics?

Thanks.

 

[Sol Invictus]

When you put the seeds in the Coco, I would have misted the top of the coco with about 4 Table spoons of water. Then I would have put them in a dome because you need a lot of humidity for initial root growth and open the air valve. When you put the dome on, the moisture in the coco will redistribute itself like it would when you put an orange peel for people who moisen up their dried buds. Because I would have given them just some water spray, it wouldn't have pentetrated your coco like you did and it would have needed to be watered again in 1 or 2 days. So basically you want to give them just drops of water at first so you can water them again the next day. As it grows you give it a little more water until you have a big root system then you give them a real watering.

To this day I've never given them a real watering.

Before I planted the seeds, the coco was just barely moist.. just enough to darken the coco. After I planted the seeds, I misted daily, to keep the top layer moist. Once they popped though the soil, I moved them under the CFL's. Since they've been under the lights, I only misted ONE TIME (yesterday).

I really don't think that I've over-watered. Does overwatering cause the stem to shrink up, like in the pics?

Thanks.

I lost two seedlings, due to the stem shrinking, about 4 days after popping through soil and another one yesterday.

 

[Balarama67]

I've lost seedlings like that more to heat than anything else.

 

[Snype]

Did you have it in a dome? For how long? Did you lift up the dome daily and give it some air. All this would have also been important.

 

[gaiusmarius]

to be honest i never like to pop seeds directly in coco, but some folks swear by it. i prefer rock wool or jiffypots or what ever those coffee filter plugs with earth are that you hydrate to use. get 10/10 using those things regularly. but i think those plants can be saved you just need to support them seedling till it's stronger. to me it looks like you need to water desperately. coco isnt the same as earth, you can keep coco damper then earth. basically to begin with, water them till run off, then give them a little bit every 3 or 4 days or if the pots start getting lite. when i'm popping seeds i don't worry about over watering, i feel it helps the seed break the shell open if i make sure the shell is always damp till the seedling shows, then i let it dry a bit before re watering. never give any nutes to seeds or seedlings till they show their first set of real leaves in coco. but in the end my tip is don't pop seeds in coco. these are the things im talking about:

 

[Snype]

Yeah I agree with gaiusmarius about not popping beans in coco. I won't even pop beans in rockwool. I only pop seeds in soil to avoid all the problems then I take clones and put them in the medium that I choose.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i get about 90% success rate with rw cubes germinating seeds, while i seem to be getting 100% with those thingamajigs i started using for popping seeds recently.

 

[orangejuice]

i have 100% in coco so far (knocks on wood), well soaked 24 hours in a cup of water in the dark then thrown in coco. i always water til run off to completely soak the coco, for seedlings or brand new clones in can take up to a week until it needs more water (heat and rh play a factor here too), i just go by the weight of the cup to tell and when it's light i water til i get good runoff again. can't remember ever losing a seedling this way. and yes i agree those cups look too dry. i would give them a good soaking and then leave them alone until they are almost as dry as they are in your pic, but not quite.

 

[Aeronoob]

YOur seedlings did that because of a lack of water, and heat. You should have had the seedling buried to jsut about the leafs so that the stem dosetn dry out. Indoor growing, this is helpful to do that, it also promotes roots to grow from the buried stem. Mist the seedling a couple times good clsoe tot the stem so the watter dribbles down every 2-3 days so the stem tay moist under the soil, but not enough that your keeping the cup/roots soaked. Plants, especially seedlings don't like to sit in wet roots days on end.

 

[DiiZZii3]

i dont think that looks like a water issue. are u running a fan in ur grow room? cuz no airflow will lead to seedlings that stretch a ton an end up bein unable to support themself

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Three of the seedlings with the taller stems (2 inches) fell over, and I noticed the stem was VERY thin. I tried holding them up with plastic straws, but they have not recovered. Now today, two more of the plants have the same problem. I have only watered once, since I planted the seeds into the coco, which was seven days ago, so I don't think I'm over watering.

The top inch of coco is dry, but the coco below that is still moist.

Too little light, too little water and too few or wrong nutrients.

Seedlings should be fed a bloom food and root stimulator solution in the first few days, so it can develop an extensive root system.

Ripen (or Green Sensation from Plagron which has an NPK of 0-9-10, or PK 13/14) plus some B1 type food like Canna Rhizotonic or really any root stimulator of your choice. Use it at the low EC end (1.0-1.2 max) solution for optimal root development.

After rooting, start to up the EC by 0.1 or 0.2 EC increments using ordinary food with N in it. Once the nutrient EC is the same as the soil you are going to transplant it into, there will be no risk of transplant shock.

 

[Aeronoob]

i dont think that looks like a water issue. are u running a fan in ur grow room? cuz no airflow will lead to seedlings that stretch a ton an end up bein unable to support themself

it def is a water issue, look how dry the coco is, its pulled away from the inside edge of the cup. its more of a seedling issue with the stem being exposed liek that, It should be burried almost up to the first set of leafs and spray waterd lightly so the stem stays moist and roots. also if those straqs were slipped over the top of that seedling, very bad idea....you are going to damage it trying to pull it off later on, or the stem will swell in that thing and you choke the top of the plant off.