SOG system height question
- Thread starter Spanishwilly
- Start date
May I suggest put clones straight on to 12/12 at 4 per sq/ft. I have been doing this with an indica dominant strain for quite some time. These things finish in 6-7 weeks. Trim lateral growth and go for single cola SOG.
These plants were not topped and are under a 600W HPS. 36 clones in a 3'x3' ebb/flow tray. Height at finish about 2'.
Currently I'm doing something different. 16 clones, 3'x'3' ebb/flow, 1000W ebb/flow. I have FIMMED them.
Here's another one 36 clones and new mums in the box.
Thanks for the quick reply HC. Unfortunately, it doesn't help because I'm propagating in a bubble cloner. It's impossible for me to compare a clone in soil to the ones I have coming out of a bubbler.This is a well rooted clone Dude.
This is probably a source of some of my confusion, differing propagation methods. You always hear clones going into a SOG have to be "well-rooted" but that can mean very different things depending on your propagation method.
I find that clones take about 20 days in my bubbler before they're good enough for me to plant with confidence. Some are faster but if I want to plant all at once it takes about 3 weeks.
But I doubt they're as well-rooted as yours because mine will have to adjust to going from no medium to hydroton, and from no nutes to Lucas, etc.
I notice that my clones do very little for the first few days, and only start noticeable growth after about a week. That's what I'm wondering about if I go right into flowering. On one hand, that lag could be great - presumably, the hormonal and chemical changes of flowering will proceed as normal, but the vegetative growth will lag, resulting in a plant that only really stretches for the second week of the classic 2-week stretch, and doesn't exceed my 18" limit. On the other, it could be bad, resulting in a plant too stunted to fill out its 6"x6" share of the canopy and too short to take advantage of the proper canopy depth for proper light penetration.
I guess I'll assume the lag will be good, since people talk about plants going from 3" to 3' in SOG during flower.
Also, I've found that when SOGgers say "no veg" and "well-rooted," sometimes they actually mean that they veg their clones until they start to show growth. So what they really mean is, "no veg except that week I vegged them to get past the lag period."
But I guess the lag period isn't all that mysterious. I've found that it takes a plant about a week to respond to changes in nute strength, for example, at all stages of development. Maybe I should give them just a touch of nutes in the bubbler, say after 14 days?
Spanishwilly
Member
Hi HC,
Do you give them a couple or three days vegging to get their roots out at all, or is it straight into flowering?
I now do clones in a 60/40 coco/perlite mix cos it works better for me.
I have previously cloned in bubblers and aeroponic type set ups where the roots hang in the air.
No problems. Once the roots are a few inches long I would bury them in hydroton in the ebb/flow and start the process.
All cannabis plants stretch when put on 12/12, sativa more so than indica, that's one reason why I like indica.
A full on sativa might be difficult to control the stretch in a confined space.
Just because your cloning with a bubbler should not be a problem.
I have found no medium to hydroton not to be a problem.
The stretch is very strain dependant, I just happen to have one that doesn't stretch much.
Hey Spanishwiily, how's that SOG going. I normally have the clones on 18/6 under the CFL until the roots develop, usually about 7 days they start. Feed with seaweed extract. At 14 days put them under a HID and hydro nutes.
Straight on to 12/12.
But my current run under 1000W I'm vegging for a week and FIMMING for something different. I like experimenting.
Spanishwilly
Member
Hi buddy,
The SOG is still under construction. I'm not very good with pics, I know, but there's not much to see right now anyway. I'm waiting for the guys to install the air conditioner in the basement.
My moms are getting huge, and will have to go outside to grow out after I take the next cuttings. I will need to have Bonsai moms due to my height and space situation, and these girls no longer fit the bill. Don't know why anyone uses anything other than Bonsais really, now that I've read the Bonsai thread.
While I've got you, how many times a day are those beds getting watered? and what brand of seaweed extract are you using?
If you have big mums you should be able to get lot's of clones. Keep on topping them. During lights on I feed 15 minutes every 3 hours and 1 time during lights off.
For the seaweed extract I use this.
This is Australian made but you should be able to get something similar in your country, kelp, fish emulsion, etc.
I'm trying the bonsai mum thing too, don't rally know what I'm doing but I'm following threads and having a go. I have just tried the FIM technique on them. We will see what happens.
Spanishwilly, for what it's worth, the great big bonsai thread says you can reliably get 10-20 cuts every 2 weeks from 8" square (canopy) bonsai mums in small pots under HIDs in soil. I bet that would get up to 20-40 in hydro with bigger pots, though it might just add up to getting your cuts faster.
Anyway I'm banking on being able to get 20 cuts every 14 days from each 8" bonsai mum. But I have an indica strain that loves giving me tons of nodes. I can cut a shitload of 3" clones at once from these girls in veg so I'm not too worried about clones anymore. Might have to intensively train a sativa dominant strain.
Anyway I'm banking on being able to get 20 cuts every 14 days from each 8" bonsai mum. But I have an indica strain that loves giving me tons of nodes. I can cut a shitload of 3" clones at once from these girls in veg so I'm not too worried about clones anymore. Might have to intensively train a sativa dominant strain.
To cut down on the plant numbers why not take clones off the girls in the SOG 2 weeks into 12/12. Use the lateral growth for clones, works well and they night start monster cropping on you.
Bonsai looks good though doesn't it.
Hmm, that's not a bad idea but I'd have to try it first as a supplemental so I can work out just how long they'd take to root. I just worked through my first two batches of cuttings taken during flower, first batch early and the second batch late. Seemed like they took a WHILE to bounce back and root and start vegging. But maybe they wouldn't take too long the next time around cause I've kinda gotten my shit together since then and am feeling my vegging oats.
Spanishwilly
Member
Do you always get enough side growth to get a cutting or two from each plant when you go straight into 12/12? They'd be the nice soft bendy ones, wouldn't they?
See the lateral growth 4 days into 12/12 of my current run. If I was doing single cola style I would cut these off and use for clones leaving the central cola. In the past I have found these clone quite easily up to 14 days into 12/12.
To update, my latest batch of clones (using Grodan cubes and a humidity dome) were "well rooted" in 3 weeks. I started seeing growth the day after they went into 12/12. The tallest have more than doubled in height after 4 days in 12/12. I think going from no medium (bubble cloner) to hydroton must be what makes them lag. In a cube or a plug, they root into a medium so they're further along than clones from a bubbler.
I still wish I knew enough about SOG to know if I could top them though. These bitches are gonna be tall. I'm thinking hard about topping the tall ones. It'll let me keep the profile lower, and encourage side-branching. I don't have as many girls in there as I'd like so I'd like to make them wider if I can.
I still wish I knew enough about SOG to know if I could top them though. These bitches are gonna be tall. I'm thinking hard about topping the tall ones. It'll let me keep the profile lower, and encourage side-branching. I don't have as many girls in there as I'd like so I'd like to make them wider if I can.
Update on the bonsai moms too. I had 7 moms in 1.5 liter net pots under a 400w and I could take 100 cuts from them and barely notice I'd touched them. You can take 200 cuts a week from bonsais under a 400w, probably. I put them in big net pots and they got way too big for the 400w. I put them in 12/12 and moved the girls from my 250 under the 400w. With the 1.5 liter net pots in Lucas ebb and flow, I think 4 moms is about right. More if you're doing a less branchy strain though. I think you could probably run an 8 to 10kw SOG with just the cuts from a 400w MH. The bonsai moms are flowering beautifully, btw.
depends what medium you are using. If your clone has a good root base...than flipping them from onset will be fine. Your scenario..ir you are taking them from a bubble cloner...you are are going to need to veg them for at least a week to establish a good root base.
I normally go from aero cloner..to coco. In this instance...you will need to veg for at least 2 weeks to establish root growth before flip. Otheriwise you will end up with nipple colas..not recommended.
If you are taking them..and putting them in hydro...than maybe that is a different story...
You will ultimately need to test what works best for you. Stick to 1 strain..and dial that bitch in. You will become intimate with her, and find out in the end what she likes and doesn't like.
Good luck!
I normally go from aero cloner..to coco. In this instance...you will need to veg for at least 2 weeks to establish root growth before flip. Otheriwise you will end up with nipple colas..not recommended.
If you are taking them..and putting them in hydro...than maybe that is a different story...
You will ultimately need to test what works best for you. Stick to 1 strain..and dial that bitch in. You will become intimate with her, and find out in the end what she likes and doesn't like.
Good luck!
I just whack em straight into hydroton, 4 clones per sq/ft, single cola sea of green, it works
36 PLANT SOG, 4 CLONES PER SQ/FT, 1000W HPS, STRAIGHT ON TO 12/12
Yeah I grow in 'ton. My cuts rooted for about 23 days and I put them into 12/12 under a 1k HPS Last Monday and Tuesday (I put a few in to make sure they wouldn't die on me because the light was too close, the cuttings not rooted enough, etc.) and they went crazy on me. The tall ones are already 9 or 10 inches tall. They grew a couple inches by the second day.
Vegging them at all with my setup would've been a giant pain in the ass.
Vegging them at all with my setup would've been a giant pain in the ass.
