Project Re-Veg,Clone and Make feminized seeds

[JackTheGrower]

I just can't Stand it. Look at all the grow threads and I don't have a proper grow to post about.
Then I said to myself, Self, you are trying something new and maybe that would be entertaining.

So in an effort to keep myself from talking to myself I figure I can document my attempt to re-veg an already harvested pair of Sisters.

My Goals are:

1. Re-veg two sisters from this last grow.
2. Clone these Sisters.
3. Try out the Colloidal Silver method of forcing male flowers on a female and make feminized seeds.


I would appreciate advice on this task and I hope it makes a nice thread.

---------------------------------------------------------------------





It looks like the 6th of May is a reasonable start date give or take a couple days.

Today is June 2nd 2010 and I see some of the features I have come to expect when a plant starts to Re-veg starting to show.

Already I see two possible clone sites that are showing signs so that is a positive.

For those readers that haven't worked with Re-Vegging: Re-veging or switching the plant back to long day hours causes cannabis to revert to a preflowering state or back into Vegetative state.
This is an awkward thing for the plant as it struggles between it's reproductive mode and back into growing the green we all know and clone.

At this point these two girls are about 4 weeks into a 14/10 day and they are starting to show signs but have not yet given up putting on female flowers.

One good thing i noticed on inspection is no signs of male flowers or late seed set. Very good.
While I cannot swear there are no late male flowers in these genetics I have not seen any male flowers on these two females and the pinch of calyxes finds no seeds in the buds that are left,

Also I am revising my flowering time for this up. An exact flowering time to recommend is still under consideration but I do feel they can go longer than i ran them..

So here are June 2nd's shots and I open the thread for questions and comments.
if you know all this already pardon the Grow drama but if you don't I will try and be helpful as I go the distance.
It's my first time making feminized seeds. I will be learning as I go.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Update:

All is looking good. I get the sense that growth is starting on both Sisters in force. Still it will be a few weeks before it starts to resemble a Veg'n plant.

Still the plants health and it's environment are both excellent. I have to admit the season has been a long cool spring so this is one Sweet grow season.

I have tossed in some Mung Beans for green manure so hopefully by the time I clone these I can harvest a fresh supply of Nitrogen materials as well.

Some have wondered why I use a 14 hour day. In response to those questions I have not noticed any gardening problems with growing everything on a 14 hour day.
I have seen quick results of Seed to Massive weed in 3 months under 14/10 so what was an experiment of one season became the standard.
No need to worry about the length of day when the light is a blended spectrum @1500 watts in a 4x4 box I guess.

So I will leave it to a relaxed 14 hour day for them.


I welcome suggestions and comments.

Another topic brought up is plant vigor of re-vegged plants.

Does anyone have experience with seed production and re-vegged plants?

 

[twrex]

Some have wondered why I use a 14 hour day. In response to those questions I have not noticed any gardening problems with growing everything on a 14 hour day.
I have seen quick results of Seed to Massive weed in 3 months under 14/10 so what was an experiment of one season became the standard.
No need to worry about the length of day when the light is a blended spectrum @1500 watts in a 4x4 box I guess.

So I will leave it to a relaxed 14 hour day for them.

I just want to be clarify, since this is confusing to me, do you flower under 14/10, veg there, or both?
I can understand a slightly longer flowering day, in fact it was something I'd been considering but not asked about yet. 14 hours just seems like an awfully short day for veg.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I just want to be clarify, since this is confusing to me, do you flower under 14/10, veg there, or both?
I can understand a slightly longer flowering day, in fact it was something I'd been considering but not asked about yet. 14 hours just seems like an awfully short day for veg.

I flower on 12/12. I have been growing veg on 14/10 for 8 or 9 years I am guessing. Ever since I bought my first HID 1ker hps.

I think growing on low wattage would be better for longer days but I am suggesting we may have some legacy concepts from earlier grow book that may stand a review.

So try it if you like. I have grown seeds from GreenHouse and Kryptonite and they do fine here.

Not to brag here but any of my grow pics in the albums here are 14/10 veg grows.
The way I read about it back in 2002-2004 some time on another site is that there are different day length around the world.
I will google to see where 14/10 is at : How cute my first result is a school page http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/time/latitude.html

Is that true Thailand is a 12 or less strain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_length

So I figure our genetics are able to deal with just about anything. Cannabis seems to be adaptable.
The key here is great light. Sure I run 14/10 but under 1500 watts of blended.. That center 1k is a bit of over kill. I will try the hybrid 600/400 bulb next.

So I have done this a long time and I feel confident to say it's all good here.



I get the Fifth Element quote BTW.

 

[twrex]

Interesting concept going for the more 'natural' day cycle and dropping to 12/12 for flower. I've gotta wonder if that takes longer for them to veg fully under that shorter light cycle? I know you mentioned three months above, is that just for veg or is that the whole grow? Certainly food for thought in any case.

Also, good catch on the quote.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Interesting concept going for the more 'natural' day cycle and dropping to 12/12 for flower. I've gotta wonder if that takes longer for them to veg fully under that shorter light cycle? I know you mentioned three months above, is that just for veg or is that the whole grow? Certainly food for thought in any case.

Also, good catch on the quote.

Oh I am sure it's 3 to 4 months total but I tend to harvest for the mental health effect so early for the most part.
These new genetics I have bred need longer than the 4 to ripen right I found out. So I could be negligent in going the full distance here on some things. It's close enough for me.
All pictures are in my Gallery and many grows are time lined in threads here. If i misstate it's more a bad memory rather than a need to power up my image.

With proper Veg It depends on the strain but mostly yes. Since I have a limit on height some strains are a real pain such as "The Doctor" was. I literally had to get out the hedge clippers and cry.

But yeah it seems fast. I was accused of cheating and not telling the truth on the Bubba X OG but since I had been posting a time line with pictures I assume a reasonable defence was well reasonable.

Like any hobbyist I have had the luck and have fine tuned this box system. So since I have it dialled in I am getting good results.

So yes for this set up and this climate the 14/10 under 1500 blended spectrum is doing a good job of providing quality produce.

I am absolutely sure there are better ways but this is alright.

If you like you can browse my second to last grow for ideas. Nobody is perfect but I like posting so Whoomp there it is.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=124522

--------------------

Edit : That second to last went closer to 5 with the seed making. So 4-5 depending on the strain but no less than 3 ever.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Oh I watch Fifth element several time a year. I dig that one..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element If you don't know already

 

[JackTheGrower]

I see there are Mung Bean sprouts already in the Tumbler. I'm guessing we will have green in a couple days.

Sucks staying home and not spending money but I am doing more reading and posting.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Hey..


It's looking good!


I have some really large single blades and after that 3 and 5 finger leaves.

So this is on the way.

Re-veging causes some weirdness in growth for a while. I'm betting it takes a good 6 weeks before a plant is back on the side of being in a veg completely.

On the News front I ordered and LED panel to clone with. It's a small step into LED lighting and I will gain some understanding of LED lighting. So! Excellent stuff.

I have the Silver here two strips of 99.9999 silver, the glass jar and some place around here a suitable power supply unit.
Also on hand but not rally needed is a Hanna PPM meter. I feel odd owning on because I am an organic soil guy and you won't catch me checking pH run-off but I digress.

So here are a few Snaps of the plants and notice the singular ovum in the re-veg.
The plant is just now tipping back to Veg growth.. Not the 5 finger leaf.

Still it will be a few weeks before I take cuts. That will give me time to build the clone station.




Any questions? It's rather easy but if you have never done this maybe there are things I can answer.

 

[Zendo]

Great thread, and nice work!

Chair pulled up for this one..Nice job on the home made organic ICMAG calendar!

I plan to copy that..

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I have nothing but respect for the knowledge and patience it takes to do what u r doing..... One thing im wondering is what would make u want to do this? is this a rare strain that ended up being better than u expected and u wish u had taken clones the first time around?

 

[GrinStick]

jack, do you plan on starting a new thread on the colloidol silver experiment or continue on here? just wanted to know the results of that one. please advise.

 

[guest2012y]

I did the silver trick....it worked. It stressed the plant so much,that it looked like something that washed up on the beach in the Gulf.
I thought the plant would die from the effects of the silver before I saw any results.
One day I saw a male flower beginning to form and whisked it out of the "silver chamber" to a separate 12/12 closet and did the Verdant Green tinfoil pollen collection method.
The plant I treated with silver was in mid-re-veg when I did this...I thought it wouldn't make it.
Anyway,I pollenated a different strain female and only got 3 seeds.
The 1st one was nothing to write home about...I flowered it and smoked the bud.
The 3rd seed is in storage.
The 2cd seed was amazing and I'm keeping this cut to breed with.
I already have two great crosses with it in seeds waiting to be popped.
The Original female that was treated was the apparent cut only Pure Kush from Cali.
So the breakdown......I took that "forced by silver" male/feminized pollen off her and hit a Hawaiian x Cotton Candy.....so,Hawaiian x Cotton Candy X Pure Kush...(H2 for short) You can check it out in my albums. Good luck Jack

 

[VerdantGreen]

looking good jack! - ill be watching with interest

one thing i would add is that if you successfully get pollen off a reversed female, then make sure you pollenate a completely unstressed/not reversed female to get your seeds. otherwise you may have epigenetic problems further down the line.

cheers VG

 

[JackTheGrower]

looking good jack! - ill be watching with interest

one thing i would add is that if you successfully get pollen off a reversed female, then make sure you pollinate a completely unstressed/not reversed female to get your seeds. otherwise you may have epigenetic problems further down the line.

cheers VG

I have been reading all I can and I sure will be using non-reversed Mums..
With the 10/14 it feels relaxed. There were early signs of reveg under 14/10. Earlier than the last time I tried with different genetics. I did have them on 18 hour fluorescent tho.
This effort will allow these plants all the time they want. I want them to be happy and produce happy stress free seeds.
If that turns out bad then it will be in the Genetics and hopefully not my madness or method.

There is still a lot about feminizing that isn't clear. We have myth and science. Somewhere between the two is where the truth is on this I am guessing.

So yes.. This is Happy-Jack Seed Company! Our pampered pets bask in the warmth of our lights and enjoy the most organic soil. Tended by a loving and kindly old gardener these plants will blossom with joy knowing their every hope of reproduction will be satisfied!

Do you think that will make a nice Blurb on a seed package?

Well these guys have a couple more weeks before I will start to consider clones. I want the reverse to be solid with all the hormones or other things that signal flowering back to Veg levels.. No need to have any possible confusion I assume.. No need to rush. These are Name-sake genetics.

Hey I'm thinking this is a fun and entertaining thread.. Cool I'll be building a small clone station too.

 

[JackTheGrower]

jack, do you plan on starting a new thread on the colloidol silver experiment or continue on here? just wanted to know the results of that one. please advise.

I love the grow-drama-show stuff. I enjoy posting about weed and other things.

I hope to do everything here. Also the LED panel will be here in 5-9 days.. I chose the free shipping. So we will have a small clone station.

If all goes well the last post will be of the two test plants being grown out.

Since I am limited to a medical space of 4x4 and trying to grow 6 of these size plants resulted in a cramped grow I feel two will be a nice grow and besides I owe VG a proper plant shot.

So I hope this is a nice show.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I have nothing but respect for the knowledge and patience it takes to do what u r doing..... One thing im wondering is what would make u want to do this? is this a rare strain that ended up being better than u expected and u wish u had taken clones the first time around?

This is an arrival of the journey I had with my friend of 14 years.

The big plant on the right is where she slept in the garden. She picked that corner as her place and it is where the Sweet girl grew. So it's a human thing that I assign meaning to these two plants with the one the name-sake of my most excellent friend. I want to lock this genetic moment in a generation in. I want to be able to pop one in the soil for years to come.

Besides Feminizing is another activity isn't it?
I've done a lot of the activities this site has to offer especially the mental-melt downs.. LOL There is something funny about having a fight on the internet...

On the strain. I feel that it is special because it is the best treatment for my mood disorder issues I have ever had with that walk in the woods loving nature hippy-trippy feeling. I describe it as an Indi-haze effect. There is a clear up energy with a bit of indica buzz. So I have no problem doing the daily business with this strain yet do have the benefit of the "buzz-high" of a good stone.

The Tiki-jo sweet flowers with a scent like Juicy-Fruit gum. Naturally these are just F1's so there is work to do ( learning to do ) on improving and stabilizing but I feel these girls are worthy of saving in seed form.

I had clones but the new adult Tom cat found the mother room on a cold day and made a bed on the clones. He's not a bad cat really and once I explained ( gently ) he has never caused harm again even though he is allowed to nap in there. He just avoids the plants now. He knows they are special and likes to eat the green leaf but he wants my love more. That is the trick in cat training. They will do what they feel you want and do so with loyalty if they know the rewards are there for being good.

I am a solitary man. I have found pets to be a comfort well that and the internet. I used to say two wives and three girlfriends later i still have my cat. I guess now I can say I still have a few beans left to remind me of a better time.


As for why would i do this? Well I've lived with a medical recommendation since 1999. That means in the beginning I had no one to trust with my garden but the forums. Like many have. So i have been sharing what i do for over a decade and it's a bit of a competition to produce an interesting thread. I dig it that people like my efforts and since I am used to keeping my garden secrets on the internet it's safer than bringing friends over for a peep-show.. Word!

So the bottom line is it fills a social need for me.

it's "Rare" in that it represents an arrival and a departure. The arrival of a good medical strain and the departure of a beloved friend.

Thanks for the praise. It's all about putting one foot in front of the other in reading the forums, sharing and growing the plant. We all have to learn and it just takes daily effort to achieve something. If i look like I have some skill set I promise you I have learned right along with everyone else.

Did I tell you when i went to Berkeley Ca to visit my very first dispensary where I saw seeds for sale with the female sign on the packs and asked if I could buy a pack with the male sign on it to make seeds for myself? Oh yes i was that green 10 years or so back. So making my own feminized seeds is liberating. Especially when they mean something to me personally.

So hang in.. This is going to take a while to do. The energy is one of love and peace here and that I hope transfers to these clones and the seeds.
Perhaps after November you can pick up a pack for your garden if California allows sales with the voter initiative.

No one will get a better understanding of the genetics than those that watch , question and learn right along with me.

Thanks

 

[JackTheGrower]

I did the silver trick....it worked. It stressed the plant so much,that it looked like something that washed up on the beach in the Gulf.
I thought the plant would die from the effects of the silver before I saw any results.
One day I saw a male flower beginning to form and whisked it out of the "silver chamber" to a separate 12/12 closet and did the Verdant Green tinfoil pollen collection method.
The plant I treated with silver was in mid-re-veg when I did this...I thought it wouldn't make it.
Anyway,I pollinated a different strain female and only got 3 seeds.
The 1st one was nothing to write home about...I flowered it and smoked the bud.
The 3rd seed is in storage.
The 2cd seed was amazing and I'm keeping this cut to breed with.
I already have two great crosses with it in seeds waiting to be popped.
The Original female that was treated was the apparent cut only Pure Kush from Cali.
So the breakdown......I took that "forced by silver" male/feminized pollen off her and hit a Hawaiian x Cotton Candy.....so,Hawaiian x Cotton Candy X Pure Kush...(H2 for short) You can check it out in my albums. Good luck Jack

Excellent input.

Well I'll take a chance here. I will have faith that no unwanted inter-sex expressions will happen in the offspring but we all will have to wait and see.

Verdant Green tinfoil pollen collection method.

OH? I missed that one. LOL I have to see that.


On the silver did you avoid getting CS on the roots or especially on the soil? I believe it kills the micro-biology. On that weird growth I haven't seen a CS treated plant so I can only imaging the twisted-ness.. LOL.. sounds cool.

I will check out your albums!

Yeah I was reading that there will be some variations in the S1's and that is just like the variations in F1 mechanics. So what I read is feminized seeds are *LIKE* the parent but can be better or same. Like you just wrote.
What I like best about feminizing is the idea that it's like a genetic snap-shot of sorts. A moment in a genetic time-line we can grow or work with. While I tend to agree that depending only on feminized genetics in a breeding program is unwise I feel we can "insert" genetics into our lines with feminized seeds. That is my current understanding.

I just wrote about my request for Male seeds at Berkeley way back when; what i didn't add to that was i went home with a seed strain ( hermaphrodite ) and did cross three feminized strains with it.
Tossed one strain that hermied out but grew out the other two all female strain-seeds over 6 years. It was good enough for me and I had all those female plants.. No fuss no problems.. Each sprout is a girl..
I admit it was a "fools fortune" but feminized seeds are wonderful in that they are all female and in a planter bed or a scrog that is ideal since it's hard to remove males and waste space and time when the point is some produce for the year.

Well keep an eye here. Any guidance will help others learn as well as ourselves.

I love doing new things.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Excellent thread Jack, keep on teachin'

 

[guest2012y]

I tried to keep it out of the soil (the silver)....It didn't take more than a week of spraying to wack it out pretty good. I've got a pic somewhere,I'll try to find it.....okay here you are:

Here's the end result....H2 (seed #2)