Poll shows Cali voters favor legalization

[Neo 420]

Neo 420- I wouldn't leave it to the politicians to further relax the laws if this passes. Legalizing hemp is a must for sure I don't think it will pass but I'm sure a similar bill will pass in the next few years as it is almost assured that there will be some sort of cannabis legalization bill on the ballot every year for the foreseeable future until it happens. This bill is the foundation for the movement and not a very solid one. Should not build a house without a solid foundation. Also, if I may continue with the house analogies, when buying a house it is best to look around and find the one perfect for you, not buy the first one you see.

I like the house analogies!!! I have one too!! If you have no home, you can't be too choosy in picking one or you might end up homeless!!

 

[mikek7849]

prop 215 provides a relatively significant shelter currently there is no need to put our names in support of a bill that gives unchecked abilities for state and local government to tax and restrict the cultivation and sales of our product.

If this bill were to pass local governments could choose to not authorize cultivation in which case we would be forced to buy our medicine from corporations who would add a plethora of highly addictive but highly toxic chemicals like is done with tobacco.

We need legalization not corruption or corporatization.

 

[Neo 420]

prop 215 provides a relatively significant shelter currently there is no need to put our names in support of a bill that gives unchecked abilities for state and local government to tax and restrict the cultivation and sales of our product.

If this bill were to pass local governments could choose to not authorize cultivation in which case we would be forced to buy our medicine from corporations who would add a plethora of highly addictive but highly toxic chemicals like is done with tobacco.

We need legalization not corruption or corporatization.

Unlikely scenario.......What chemicals would they add and for what? Pure speculation. Some of scenarios you guy's come up with is just way to funny!!!!!!

 

[mikek7849]

Why do they add them to cigarettes?

 

[localhero]

such a heated topic.

take a step back and ask yourself, "what does this bill do better than prop 215"?

the only thing i can think of in answer to that is with taxing ganja youll eventually see a major shift in public acceptance with all that extra dosh. other states seeing the revenue possiblities might begin taxation campaigns of their own. that would alleviate the california green rush and prices might rebound. that could take years, and would be heavily offset if not completely negated when walmart style grow ops loby out the privateers.

everything else in the bill is a total ratfuck, especially for the little guy. maybe in 30 years ill be telling my grand kids stories about how i learned to grow prize winning tomatoes from back when i was a bud farmer, before agra business took control of the market.

 

[Neo 420]

Why do they add them to cigarettes?

They add chemical to cig's because they are nasty as hell and no one would touch em if they didn't add something to make them addictive. (They also add chemicals to add burn speed and evenness, preservation and flavor)

Now when it comes to MJ, its already perfect and needs no such intervention to attract customers. It does that all on its own. As long as it was grown correctly with a correct flush, it burns and taste GGGRRREEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!

 

[subrob]

sighhhhhhh...legalize now. forget "maybe in the future we will get a bill that works better for ME"--- people are going to jail in higher numbers RIGHT NOW then they will be after this passes. period. ANYTHING that will stop innocent people from being persecuted and prosecuted in the record numbers that are being posted by LEO currently should NEVVVVVVER be debated as to whether or not its the 'right bill'.....shame on anyone who has any reason on the priority list above this mission. its not perfect, matter a fact, it kinda sucks balls....but its a foot in the door. anyone that arrests the momentum we have going right now is an enemy of the cause. i dont freakin understand the entirety of the wording. i dont understand all the ramifications that will come down the road. all i know, is in the time it has taken me to type this, someone got sentenced to a ridiculous amount of time behind bars somewhere(actually, its sunday, but you get my point)...
....and ya, i know this comes down in favor of big business....of course it does. thats what happens. this is america- home of the greatest farms on the planet.....oh...wait....
....the only way for change to happen from the 'outside' is to blow the fukn doors off w a bazooka....we HAVE to get inside...independent thinking, hippie spirituality(i say this with respect), and common fukn sense have absolutely NO CHANCE of changing a single freakin thing....better men and women then I have been pushing this issue for DECADES on the basis that it is the right and moral thing to do...where did they get us? nowhere(again, respectfully, much progress was made and we wouldnt be in this position w out them)...cali med growers throw a hundred mil in tax revenue on the table in a few years and now look what is happening! i remember when people would look over thier shoulders to see who was listening when they were having a conversation like this...now we cant even agree AMONGST OURSELVES whether this is something we should vote for. no wonder so many people in this country refuse to listen to our side
.....since this issue has been raised in the last couple years, we have EARNED every last bit of derision we have gotten and LOST so much of the respect the pioneers of this movement EARNED us.
....so, everyone clear on where i stand? haha
...We, as a community, used to be proud of the kind of spirituality and community and commonness(?) of purpose that banded us together to fight the good fight. and many, including myself, credit cannabis with imparting a certain wisdom, an open mindedness, upon us, or at the least...allowing us to realize it within ourselves....now it seems maybe we arent really any different after all......

 

[Greyskull]

its like evryone is a bunch of lawyers hahaha

i feel you sub
its not that hard people... just got to get out and vote.
put the bong down, load a bowl for you when you get back, put on some shades, listen to some tunes on the way to the polling place, make your mark, return to the casa and roast your victory bowl

 

[subrob]

...and i know i sound like a know it all prick...there are many people here far more versed in what this is gonna mean for us here in cali...but i know this: these early bills and initiatives, when looked at from a historical perspective, are just gonna be the tip of the ice berg..the state that got it started. the way cannabis is viewed in twenty years, any laws that regulate it, any tax programs, benefits for community, state and country are not gonna be what any of us envision right now...and nothing we can do in ayear, or three or ten, is gonna get cannabis to its rightful place in medicine, textiles, or even recreation...its still a long battle ahead...but the longer it takes us to get just that first liiiiiiittle step in the right direction and that first "legal" victory, the longer its gonna take us to get where we are heading.
...i hope i didnt offend anyone with my tirade...i just..well...i just believe this is the way too fight...hope you will join us...

 

[localhero]

...and i know i sound like a know it all prick...there are many people here far more versed in what this is gonna mean for us here in cali...but i know this: these early bills and initiatives, when looked at from a historical perspective, are just gonna be the tip of the ice berg..the state that got it started. the way cannabis is viewed in twenty years, any laws that regulate it, any tax programs, benefits for community, state and country are not gonna be what any of us envision right now...and nothing we can do in ayear, or three or ten, is gonna get cannabis to its rightful place in medicine, textiles, or even recreation...its still a long battle ahead...but the longer it takes us to get just that first liiiiiiittle step in the right direction and that first "legal" victory, the longer its gonna take us to get where we are heading.
...i hope i didnt offend anyone with my tirade...i just..well...i just believe this is the way too fight...hope you will join us...

right on, nice to see someone has the balls to lay out their stance like that. i hope youll have that same energy when it comes time to stand up to the big businesses who will try to edge us out. you can count me in for that fight.

whether or not anyone is for or against this bill, theres never been a more important moment than now for us to join forces as growers, regardless of the outcome nov.

 

[kmk420kali]

I agree that Legalization is paramount!!
But...can any non-Med ppl really say they can have a Garden that is 5 foot by 5 foot...including Mothers, Clones...and flowering plants??
Do we really want Child Protection Services coming to our house...because we smoked our weed...while a minor was in the house??
Do we really want to have it so anybody caught smoking at a Concert...instead of just getting kicked out....gets arrested, because there were 18-21 year olds there??
Do we really want the guy caught with 32 grams on him...to get arrested...or fined because he had too much??
Right now, that same person would get off with a fine...no jail time--
Do you really think that LEO will take this like a "Man"??
No...they will fight back...and fuck us along the way--

I want Legalization too...but I am not willing to take this like a starving man will take a green bean!!

 

[subrob]

if i get even slightly hungry i will eat me some beans...
---i understand it is not perfect....and, admittedly, i am slightly more protected by my med status...so maybe biased a little...but im aware throughout the history of this country, progress and change have required sacrifice. i am also aware, that in todays world it is much more about what works for the individual rather then the collective good. if i were not protected(or semi protected) by my med status, i would still be willing to make the sacrifices i needed to, if it meant people would stay out of jail. i mean no disrespect to the opponets of this change, but i cannot put my own wants in front of others. every war has soldiers, making sacrifices for the end game and politicos sitting around discussing what works out best for them if the soldiers win the war. i guess both are needed.
----we could sit here and respectfully argue that you run the risk of child protective services coming to your home right now and doing the same damn thing. we could argue that an overnight stay in the city pokey for transporting a zip is better then a 5 year stay in a state penitentiary with murderers, child rapists, and home invading gangbangers because you were growing herb for sick people. or fuck it, just for yourself. You could also convince me that the people who are taking advantage of the cali med scene and cali smokers right now are more deserving or the lesser evil then the sam waltons who are going to move in immediately...but you wont convince me that these more deserving folks give a flying fuck about me or my kind. not one iota. innocents NOT going to jail trumps johnny california getting to drive a benz instead of sam walton everytime.
---again, i do not know the entire text or even all the consequences, my argument is a moral one. change is better then no change. my ability, or a non med growers ability to grow as much as they want, without the man imposing any restrictions is secondary to the end game of freedom.
---i am so sorry that i cannot express what i feel in my soul adequately....i hope my words have inspired at least a few people to stop wasting time and begin the change.

---i want legalization, but i am not willing to starve because the menu has green beans and not corn.

 

[subrob]

here is another item that should GREATLY influence the way my fellow icmaggers in cali think of my stance:
I COULD BE WRONG
---i dont know for sure...so what i need, for me to change my mind, is for someone to convince me that my moral stance on this issue is wrong....or flawed....convince me this is not about the end game....tell me cali growers are more important than the people who use cannabis medically or recreationally throughout the country...shit, throughout the world....cuz im convinced we have a chance to influence the direction the movement takes right now!
...BUT im scared outta my mind that im incorrect in my assumptions and im scared that because i know how to take really good pictures of herb and have been posting on this sight for a few years people may be influenced and take what i say as fact and not put thier own mental exercise into deciding what to do....but i dont see any of the 'anti' people stating disclaimers like this so i feel the need to represent the 'pro' side of the issue.....we got a few months left for someone to show me the light. buuuuuut...arguments based on 'its not good enough' or 'its not what we deserve' or 'johnnys got ta get a job now' will not work. i need for someone to convince me, really convince me, w arguments i havent been seeing for the last few months, that im wrong. please try, cuz i wanna be sure when i head to the polls.
...thats it, im quitting coffee and mountain dew...again...

 

[localhero]

...thats it, im quitting coffee and mountain dew...again...

coffee and mountain dew are gateway drugs for diet rockstars, blue monsters and 6 shot iced americanos.

my name is localhero and i am a recovering energy drink addict.

ok so some anti arguments? i dont know what youve heard or not rob. but ill try to play devils advocate.

1- full legalization could stymie medical campaigns across the states. anti mmj advocates point to medical as being a smokescreen for legalization. try that in the south.

2- the legalization bill does not release current inmates convicted on charges that after the bill passes will not have been crimes.

3- this bill opens up alot of new ways to be put in jail, or generally fucked. smoking around kids? more than an oz? 5'x5' grow canopy? this is a big deal, as i can imagine da's and general assholery by angry cops and judges who still think mj is akin to heroin would use as many loopholes as they could to fuck you.

4- its an opening for big money to jump in and lobby for personal grow restrictions (ie: personal tobacco growing limits) and exorbidant licensing costs for larger grows.

it created a crappy scenario for all of us to lose ground fought so hard for across this state. if this bill fails, it could enbolden opposition to med marijuana. it pisses me off to be in a situation where were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

you know what, fuck it. im now of the mindset that im going to have to vote yes on this thing. it doesnt change medical mj. so ill be growing however much i can through that anyways. we might be more screwed if we dont vote yes on this.

im not convinced at all that its gonna keep people out of jail. and its gonna take some cohession to make this bill work for the people and not mr walton.

 

[subrob]

ok so some anti arguments? i dont know what youve heard or not rob. but ill try to play devils advocate.

1- full legalization could stymie medical campaigns across the states. anti mmj advocates point to medical as being a smokescreen for legalization. try that in the south.

2- the legalization bill does not release current inmates convicted on charges that after the bill passes will not have been crimes.

3- this bill opens up alot of new ways to be put in jail, or generally fucked. smoking around kids? more than an oz? 5'x5' grow canopy? this is a big deal, as i can imagine da's and general assholery by angry cops and judges who still think mj is akin to heroin would use as many loopholes as they could to fuck you.

4- its an opening for big money to jump in and lobby for personal grow restrictions (ie: personal tobacco growing limits) and exorbidant licensing costs for larger grows.

it created a crappy scenario for all of us to lose ground fought so hard for across this state. if this bill fails, it could enbolden opposition to med marijuana. it pisses me off to be in a situation where were damned if we do and damned if we dont.

you know what, fuck it. im now of the mindset that im going to have to vote yes on this thing. it doesnt change medical mj. so ill be growing however much i can through that anyways. we might be more screwed if we dont vote yes on this.

im not convinced at all that its gonna keep people out of jail. and its gonna take some cohession to make this bill work for the people and not mr walton.

very cool...lets get the discussion going on specific issues...this may help me...
1)full legalization in cali may lead to full legalization in all states no? wont need the medical smokescreen anywhere. i firmly believe the money raised will destroy all opposition within two decades...side note of this, IMO californians have taken advantage of current legislation so blatantly and unapologetically that i would have to agree!
now do i have a MORAL problem w that? not even a little bit...but it gives anti canna movement ammo
2)and to my knowledge it never does and it never will....i shouldnt state it like that...i think this is the case w all new criminal legislation correct? its pitiful, but i think true. no retroactive clemency.(i could be wrong)
3)its a give and take isnt it? we have so many ways to go to jail now...i would love to see a thread by someone who knows more than i on this topic specifically listing what we are gaining and what we are losing...specifically on what will send you to jail, what the priorities will be, what sentencing guidelines would be lessened and what will become harsher...you take away financial incentive for LEO politicos, you take away thier drive to keep THIER footsoldiers(the cops) bustin down doors for pot. street level cops, ime, tend to be pragmatic and have so much shit to focus on, once local and national politicians lose datmunny...they will lose that particular motivation...and i do believe if the bill leads to less jail time it will lead to less incentive for LEOs and associates to persecute canna 'offenders'---we have to figure in the ripple effect as a possibility when forming our opinions before we vote.
4) this is gonna happen in my opinion....almost without question. it has become the american way and is absolutely unstoppable. i dont even question how to get around this anymore. and if no big corp came in and tried to take over, some dopesmokin hippie(s) would turn into a evil corp and do it. inevitable.
....maybe my problem is i am focusing too much down the road...just cant figure how that isnt the correct approach....
....dont lose heart...no matters what happens, we are moving forward...i fully expect many more roadblocks, but they will be easier to knock down once we can refer to the movement as 'legal'...it shouldnt matter, but it will, and it does..

 

[subrob]

4) this is gonna happen in my opinion....almost without question. it has become the american way and is absolutely unstoppable. i dont even question how to get around this anymore. and if no big corp came in and tried to take over, some dopesmokin hippie(s) would turn into a evil corp and do it. inevitable.
QUOTE]

actually, im willing to bet that 75% of the people who are going to make a killing financially are probably already in place. big money is already here...just waiting....and believe-some of em are ALREADY makin a killing off of all of us...all the good claims are already staked when the gold rush starts...


----"california presented to people a new model for the american dream - one where the emphasis was on the ability to take risks, the willingness to gamble on the future"
-H.W. Brands--california gold rush quotes

 

[localhero]

actually, im willing to bet that 75% of the people who are going to make a killing financially are probably already in place. big money is already here...just waiting....and believe-some of em are ALREADY makin a killing off of all of us...all the good claims are already staked when the gold rush starts...

yeah im not sure but i heard rj reynolds bought up a whole bunch of acreage in humboldt. who knows if thats true, i wouldnt be suprised, in fact id be suprised if they havent.

thats a great idea to have someone with the legal prowess to break down the pros and cons of this bill as far as jailable offenses are concerned.

what would be equally great is for someone knowledgeable to break down where the tax revenues will go. id be very stoked if the taxes went for viable public useage- community colleges, universities, state parks, beaches, public education,firedept, etc.

i'll say one fear is that this extra revenue will get used much as the lottery has. people get upset thinking the lotto doesnt go where its supposed to. what actually happens is that lawmakers use that money as a replacement of previous funding.

it sux but i can also imagine mj tax revenues acting as a bandaid to the impotence placed on us by the 2/3 vote requirement on new taxes. we may not see the true impact of legalization in as clear and overwhelming a light as we should.

 

[White-rhino]

Classic case of envy. No legalization because someone other than me might make some money on it. And probably some "FATCAT"!

 

[SeniorBuzz]

yes, it's highly likely that the people who connived their way into the business, relatively recently, and in the first place, are more adept at finding a niche.

short of forming a local/county grower's consortium (collective)
and developing community-endorsed owner-operated legal grows,
thereby keeping the right people in place
it won't happen

BTW, in the meantime, everyone is a mmj grower; that's the only legal game

 

[Hammerhead]

Rob you forgot to clarify the 1oz deal. you may possess any amount that your 5x5 space will pump out in your home. I can do 3lbs in a 5x5 no problems. You may only carry 1oz on you. There has been no land purchases by any tobacco company. This kind of info is public knolage anyone can look for this info and find the truth. I dont know how many times this has been clerified. I belive no one wants to listen. Most of these issues have been debunked in the threads that have come and gone.