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Vertical Closet FLO rDWC

I

ImaginaryFriend

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This isn't what it would be, if it wasn't what it is...

First night of flowering Lonely FLO:
picture.php

Morning after, (flower: 1/56?)
picture.php


Posting to consolidate "notes"... and because I'm scared of missing something vital and finding myself in some kinda major trouble. Anything you all see that I've overlooked is certainly welcome feedback...

Back Story:
After my last grow's epic failure, I was committed to doing something simple (coco in smart pots) that I couldn't screw up. I had a few salvaged cuttings sitting in a super mini-DWC (5" net pot in 6" square 'buckets') in very expensive, very crappy mom/veg cab... a BC SweetTooth from seed and a FLO cut that dominated it in final jarring...

Well, in breaking down the last house I got in in my clever head to transfer the 5" nets into 8" nets and set them into isolated buckets temporarily...

Well, as life goes, temporary became longer and longer... My simple plan hinged on a few really good ideas--getting an nice 5x5 tent, some viable cuts, coco and smart pots etc.--that hinged on a few really good ideas (mostly like having the money to pay for those things, etc.) While I'm making beautiful plans the plants keep doing their thing... so my schedule is getting crunched... and I figure I'd just take some cuts, flower out the DWC mom's while I was establishing the new clones for coco and my new simple system...

But wait... what about my most recent epic failure with my last RDWC system? Well, I better take my money and invest in a chiller. Okay. Now I better put in some kind of inline filter to protect that chiller. Okay. (By the way, I like the way you think. Very proactive buddy, very proactive.) Okay... better rethink my return lines to avoid the constant flooding I did not enjoy last time... okay... how about some three inchers... 'Cause that's the way the cool kids are doing it... okay... here we go with some uniseals and a hole saw...

Me to me: "What, you're broke? What kind of broke?"

me to Me: "Flat broke."

Me to me: "Awesome. Well, set it up... then We'll rethink it."

Okay... So now it's about to be plumbed and bubbling and circulating and chilling. But wait... you don't trust the Sweet Tooth mom being attached to the FLO. Now what... Turn it into a one cell rDWC. That's stupid. Might as well just have it in a bucket. But all the money was spent, so WTF? Use the damn totes and uniseals...

A week later things a 1 cell rDWC based around an 18" FLO mom and things are good... but a tent is still WAY out of reach. So.. I keep thinking I'll hold off and do it right... now she's 20"... now she's 22".

"Okay. Get off your ass and build a Panda tent," Me says. Tomorrow, I respond. Five times.

Well, I broke down, and built it two days ago... around the res, all out of salvaged lumber and old panda.

Set Up:

Lumatek 600W x2
Hydrofarm Cool Tubes

"TENT":
'Open Room'
46"x47"x63" Inflow from ceiling,
Big CanFilter horizontal at bottom of tent
Two 600w vertical Cool Tube HPS direct vent out-doors
Ambient res-66 deg.
2"x6" Panda 'tray' below plant for when it all fails...
3" PVC res. return...
400gpm dedicated recirculation pump.
Commercial Air 5... 1/2 capacity to res, half to roots
1/4 HP chiller
Total system seems to be running at about 40gal

Feeding:
Initial reservoir/food set up (I think... gotta keep better track/hence the diary):
---
Bubbled tap h20 (40 gal, ph 7.8, EC 120)
---
Botanicare TriFlex nutes
120ml Karma
120ml Base
120ml Grow
60ml Bloom

60ml cal/mag (MagiCal)
60ml Hygrozyme

Both Lumatek ballasts are running currently at 370W... (had one 600W burning overhead previously to getting this build done)

Will bump to 400W per in the next couple of days...

Then, up to 600W if all is well by the end of week one of flower...

me: Wish me luck.
Me: Good luck... you'll need it...
 
Last edited:
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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Lights are running at night... so PM reading is lights on, AM end of 'day'...

Monitored at:

5/25 1700ish ppm (.5 conversion) pH: 5.8 / 600W HPS (overhead) / light cycle: 16/8
5/29 pm 1340/6.3
5/30 pm 1450/6.4
5/31 pm 1480/6.1
6/01 am 1260/6.3 / 27" tall/24" wide / 370W HPS Vertical x2 / (12/12:1/56) / 5 gallon tap addback
6/02 pm 1260/6.1 (12/12:2/56)
6/03 am 1290/6.1 (2/56)
6/03 pm 1290/6.1 (3/56) / 27x24 (lower branches growing vertical) / HPS 400x2 / *Light Leak during dark cycle
6/04 am 1308/5.9 (3/56) / 13 hours light (timer mistake) / ?add auto res top off w/ pH adjusted tap or RO? / ?adj PH down?
6/04 pm 1305/5.7 (4/56) / Changed chiller setting 64-65 and increased bucket temp to 68 / ~4 gallon add back (ppm~1150).
6/05 am 1200/5.8 (4/56) / Tap water seems to have dropped to 5.8pH after off gassing for a week... ?check base ppm? / ?pen?
6/05 pm 1200/5.6 (5/56) / added 1 cup of 36hour EWC to reservoir and cloner / "bio-filter" inline / pruned (10 cuts) to cloner
6/06 am 1200/5.5 (5/56) / installed float valve and auto topper for res
6/06 pm 1150/5.5 (6/56) / thinned shade leaves, cleaned foliage from inside canopy / 600W + 400W HPS / ?hit it with neem?/
6/07 am 1200/5.6 (6/56) / added 125mL of Liquid Karma into circulation / dropped chiller temp to 64 to deal with added HPS heat
6/07 pm 1159/5.5 (7/56) / 95 degrees / RH: 31% / dropped wattage back down to 800W until heat can be controlled effectively.
6/08 am 1030/5.6 (7/56) / Cleaned up exhaust (eliminated 10 feet of duct and three 90s) / *light leak in dark cycle
6/08 pm 1120/5.6 (8/56) / Noticed downward curl of leaf perimeter / bumped back up to 1200W / Guess 1030ppm above = error
6/08 pm THINKING: want to improve insulation around res and bucket / Improved venting worked 1200W 88* RH 30% Roots CRAZY
6/09 am 1100/5.6 (8/56) / drained 20 gal out of res / added back 15 gal chlorine shocked tap to main res / 5 gal to-top off res
6/09 pm 0660/6.6 (9/56) / 31"x34"wide / added back (straight tap) 5 gal to res / 5 gal straight tap to top-off res / no nutes
6/09 pm 0170/7.5 (9/56) / EMERGENCY RESERVOIR DUMP / New Res: B180mL/G180mL/Bl180mL/LK300mL/MagICal100mL 1250/5.5
6/10 am 1200/5.8 (9/56)
6/10 pm 1212/5.8 (10/56) / Added 4.5 gal to top off reservoir (so yesterdays consumption was repeated) / 8 drops Chlorox to cloner
6/11 am 1200/5.8 (10/56) / direct vented chiller outside.
6/11 pm 1200/5.8 (11/56) / Did not notice ~5 gal uptake, but I did change my float level
6/12 am 1200/5.9 (11/56) / ?add spare 40gph as agitator in bucket?
6/12 pm 1200/6.0 (12/56) / 2mL Chlorox (0.05 mL/gal) / 40gph pump in root bucket.
6/13 am 1212/6.0 (12/56) / ~1 gallon down in passive res since 6/10 (evap?) / pH stable at 6.0
6/13 pm 1212/6.0 (13/56)
6/14 am 1212/6.1 (13/56) / + 2mL Chlorox / passive res drop ~1 gal since 6/13 / 8 drops Chlorox into cloner
6/14 pm 1200/6.1 (14/56) / changed light cycle to 6pm-6am / res cloudy white / changed filter back to 5 micron
6/15 am 1200/6.1 (14/56) / res h2o hazy in am (suspended<5micron), hint of oily texture / ~18 gallon swap x 2 / 2mL Chlorox
6/15 pm 0510/6.1 (15.56) / ph down, 20 mL Chlorox / 80mL sm90 / changed out cloner res
6/16 am 0550/6.7 (15/56) / 10 mL Chlorox / Inline filter clogged to stop all flow, temps in Root Zone up to 80 / pH down / *light leak 8 am*
6/16 pm 0550/6.5 (16/56) / 45mL Physan 20 / 'Shampooed roots' / cloudy water / black flecks on foamy top of res
6/17 pm 0580/5.3 (17/56) / full change out 100+ gallons / 240mL Bloom, 120mL Base
6/18 am 0575/5.7 (17/56) / running 370W
6/19 pm 0588/5.1 (19/56) / running 740W / still have dead organics in the root mass... keeps showing up.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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I'm not sure where I'm at with ambient room humidity and temp... 'cause I can't find my cheap ass thermo/hygrometer... but the tent is open and vents through a carbon filter, splits to both vertical tubes and then out of doors... theoretically. I had to build a ghetto adapter to keep the vent duct in place... out of cardboard and various spent rolls of tape. An improvement, but hardly a clean set up. Ghetto is as ghetto does, or something.

The 1/4 HP chiller is doing it's job well... I pushed a couple of buttons, and it seems to be keeping roots and res sitting right between 64-66 degrees. That is... after I pulled my clogged 5 micron filter out of the system...

It appears that everything in Liquid Karma is bigger than 5 microns... 'Cause the water lost its color, three days later, the roots weren't stained... and this is the filter after I rinsed it off a few times:

picture.php


So... There are more coarse filters available... But since the humic and fulvic acids in the Liquid K are so damn important according to people way more successful than me, I don't see myself reintroducing it back into the circulating system. Hope the chiller doesn't care about whatever those little black chunky things are...

Some roots:

picture.php
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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I'm guessing that the root... um... length... has doubled in the last two days since the photo in the previous post (taken 6/02). Since I have failed to add back the Liquid Karma to the solution, all of these roots are pristine white (not a lot of side hairs) but a huge quantity of new growth.

As for the plant's structure: I'm not gaining any height out of her, but the side branching continues to develop, and turning upwards. The overall dimensions are comparable to what I recorded five days ago but I'd like to think there's some kind of development.

Apparently, the this genetic is capable of respectable yields with better than respectable quality. I don't know lighting or feed or CO2 but there must be some kind of potential for size in her throughout flower to carry that weight. Maybe my light location... wait, here's a pic from a couple of days ago (6/02):

picture.php


...is stunting her height and encouraging lateral development. As I can only give up another couple of feet to the ceiling, I think I'm okay with that.

I've been lurking K33fTr33s Defoliation thread for the last little while, which has made it easier for me to remove damaged and aged shade leaves--this plant was held from clone for about two months before giving her light and flipping her--I guess it's what I've always done, but now do it without remorse. I have not 'Defoliated' her, I'm just keeping her clean, but am doing it with a slightly different sentiment. Since I SCROGed this genetic to failure when I first got a hold of her, I'm just trying to establish an understanding of what she'll do on her own... and maybe get a baseline yield for this cobbled together system I'm running right now.

Anyway, life calls.

Best wishes to everyone out there...
 
green_thumb...

green_thumb...

Strain Whore Extraordinaire!
Veteran
thats a nice lookin plant ya got there,she looks happy as can be.

I'll be watchin this one thru...
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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rush.gt.tkA... thanks for the kind words.

To The King: My last grow was a disappointment, to say the least... and I don't have any pics worth a damn. Sorry.

Today:

picture.php


I cleaned out some more shade leaves--but the photo shows that she's still carrying a canopy. I thinned some inner branching, wherever two branches were directly competing for space. I pruned with a clean, sharp razor and put the cuts directly into the cloner without any other prep.

After waffling on introducing bios or not into the system, I've decided to go ahead and do it. On Krunchbubble's current MPB thread, there seems to be plenty of experience supporting a dead system. Plenty of experience warning against enzymes. All this in contrast with the success stories of the Bio-Buckets. I decided, in the end, to follow my gut. So there it is. Bios and Hygrozyme all around.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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Thanks fatass. I feel like a retard writing that, but really man.. I mean... you know: 'thanks'.

Added in a float valve and top off. One of the things that I liked about this set up was that there was limited flood potential. Everything was clamped off and the res and the plant were on the same level, and the reservoir was always below the water in the plant tote. Now I've got an additional reservoir precariously perched above the main one and it looses some of it's KISS.

I can imagine the float some how getting tangled in the spaghetti of air hoses I have bubbling in the main reservoir; no way would I cut them to length, because I might need air-hose that long some-where and -time else. So I can imagine. And chew my fingernails.

So why'd'ja do it? Well... If you look at post number two, I'm tracking whatever I'm doing on a daily basis (it would have been the first post on every page if I had thought to make this a journal instead of a diary) and my pH keeps dropping and my ppm is kinda steady... so I really am not tracking what the plant is doing with nutes vs. water uptake. Not that I'd actually react--I still haven't added back the Liquid Karma I think got filtered out of the solution...

...wait... just did it. A pretty random 125mL into a 40 gallon system = a not very impressive 3.125 mL/gallon. But I don't really know what's in there... so let's call it good?

(And that's why I started this journal: Accountability, bitches. And if something doesn't work out, I'll know why. I sat on the couch beside fatass while there was work to be done.)

Okay... I need to improve my exit-venting. Odor is in check. Heat and humidity are a little unreasonable. I have an in and out duct in the same window (not desirable, but it is what it is), and the out flow currently has 270 degrees of turns on it. That is bullshit. Have a design in mind that costs more than I can pay right now. Maybe FLO likes mad heat? And the root temps are definitely in control (I bet I get into a cyclical problem where the temp rises so the chiller works harder and makes more heat so the chiller works harder and makes more heat so the chiller works harder and makes more heat). But hopefully comfy root temps will keep everything groovy.

Good luck out there... best wishes to everyone.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
mistress,

Hope you didn't take the 'volatility' comment the wrong way. In some of the threads I've lurked, I've seen bucket growers love and respect you for your trees. Some of the OPs in the threads with bigger grows seem a little less welcoming. As you can see, I'm just a 'New Member', and don't really know what's going on. As far as I'm concerned, any input you have is welcome.

I flipped her six days ago.

My second 600 is hung vertical on the right side mirroring the one in the images (posts 4,10) above. Here's a thumbnail for reference:

picture.php


I have the stock dimpled aluminum 50% reflectors redirecting light towards the plant, and am telling myself that I'm getting some reflection off the whole interior to make myself feel better about my off center placement of lights (as demanded by space restrictions).

This little Panda tent juts out of a closet that is about 5' wide at the back and opens just under 47". I included the extra six inches on both sides of the actual closet, and extended the tent two feet out of the front of the closet. The top of the tent is 63" above the floor. My tote is about 22" tall, top of the plant is currently 29" tall. The side branching is running off the main stem horizontally, and then turning up at about the 12-14" off of the main stem, so actual length of branches is approaching 20" from the leader and stretching pretty quickly.

What I"m trying to say: I've used 51" of vertical out of a possible 63", and 28"-40" of horizontal out of 43" already. If I can find my camera I'll update her size (hopefully right before lights on for a better rendition of color) today. If she continues to stretch for another eight days, I think I'll find most of my space pretty well filled up.

Thanks for checking back.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
Lights on for day seven... ONE WEEK INTO FLOWER.

picture.php


Side by side shots 0/2/5/7:



Found the hydrometer/thermometer. Tossed in in the tent. Scared as can be. Reads 95 degrees/ RH: 30%. I think I should drop the lights back to 800W until I can get some better duct work. ( Well, I did ramp up to the 1200W for a few hours...)

-----

Yup. That's what I'm doing right now.

-----

Brought lamps back down to 400W each. She looked happy as hell in there... and I'm tempted to give it a go... but that seems a tad risky. Have to address venting ASAP. When did I note that in the journal? Only 24 hours ago. Not too bad.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
Drained 20ish gallons out of the system today. Added back 15 gallons of highly chlorinated water. Ran the numbers in my head again, and felt like I may have carelessly splashed too much in... by a factor of ten. Stopped water circulation during dark cycle to allow the chlorine to evaporate out of solution in main reservoir. Was away for ~9 hours. As the lights came on, the chlorine odor present but not offensive (So much for bio-bucket/bio filter thesis).

When I checked plant reservoir--down ~3-4 gallons (during a ten hour period of non-circulation). Yesterday, I amped up air circulation within the tent, my cleaned up my exhaust system is evacuating the tent more efficiently. RH sits low thirties, 24/7, so that could easily permit an increase in transpiration and h20 root uptake.

The Bigger Deal: Plant also appeared to gain at least two inches on every leader (12ish) in one dark cycle without full system circulation.

SECOND IDEA IN ONE DAY: I've got Disolved Oxygen on the mind, and am wondering if by exposing the top 5 inches of root mass to air rather than water, something good might have happened? (Or maybe, one week into flower, I'm just seeing some solid stretch. I keep thinning the shade leaves for light penetration and stretch reduction, and my fingers are getting sticky in the process. Actually, I noticed the stickiness yesterday.)

Back to topic: If the rapid growth (that I have heard so much about) is the result of an increase in DO to the root mass, there are some some pretty interesting implications in comparing the UC and the MPB systems. I thought I was being clever, initially, insofar as I was maintaining a constant water level in my root bucket (even though it was a level defined by the tote's manufacturer). Now, as I get curious about O2 levels to the roots, I find that I'm hard-wired in for this water level. That is, the vast majority of my root mass sits below water level. With the UC system, using a secondary res, you can change your float to keep it close to the bottom of the mesh pots initially, and then drop it down as the root mass develops into the bucket.

This is not possible with either the my cobbled together system, or the MPB set up...

Fingers smell hash-y.

Good luck. Best wishes.

**EDIT**Actually off by 100x with chlorine. Working numbers out of a confused head. It's .1mL per gallon. Or 2-4 drops/gal. 4 mL to a 40 gallon operating system. Not a cup or two. Checked my numbers. Realized my mistake. Checked girl. Saw droop. Emptied everything most emergency like. Didn't have a plan for that. Messy. Everything seems okay. I hope. At least I developed a reservoir and bucket change protocol.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
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Well,

I killed her.

Awesome.

That chlorine fuck-up slayed my root mass.

I've been logging my daily observations in post #2. Two days ago, I noted that there wasn't any water up take. Schedule kept me away from light cycle yesterday, but I noticed the same thing today, which is to say the passive reservoir was still where I had topped it off two days ago.

Lights came on and I checked on her. There was no substantial new stretch, in the last couple of days, but a little flower development. Then I looked at her roots, and wanted to die.

First thing I noticed was some black sludge. Not cool. A lack of firmness. A general grayness to the rootmass.

Gee, why isn't there any water uptake. How about the fact that there are no functional roots. The canopy is still perky but the roots are a sloppy mess...

pH is increasing, which is a common reported symptom in P. infestation and associated with root rot.

This is how I intend to approach this newest catastrophe:
1. I'm going to try and add 2mL of Cholrox for a few days (.05mL per gallon), and hope to see if there is any recovery. I think I've read that chlorine interacts with dead organics in such a way as to oxidize that material. That chemical process changes the chlorine. The chlorine attacks P. directly, and in oxidizing the root mass, eliminates it's food source.
2. I've also tossed in a 40gpm pump into the bottom of the root container to try and increase fluid activity around the roots to move the chlorine, air, and food through the mucky mass. I hope it physically encourages any failed structure to break off and get out of the way for new growth.

I need to decide on how long I want to wait for recovery. I don't have anything readily available to replace her with, but if she's gone I'm better to save the electric, get cleaned and set up for my next effort.
 
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