male seeds

[circadian clock]

since theres a way to make female seeds, i was just wondering if theres a way to make male seeds

 

[BrianBadonde]

I'm not sure to the benefits but yes you can make one look up androgenesis. it should be pointed out that it can be bad !!

We used population genetics models to investigate the conditions for invasion of rare androgenesis alleles and the consequences of their spread. Our models predict that androgenesis alleles often spread to fixation. If fixation causes the loss of females or female function in the population, population extinction occurs. Therefore, androgenesis alleles represent a new class of selfish genetic elements. Extinction is more likely in dioecious species than in hermaphrodites. Within dioecious species, extinction is more likely when androgenesis occurs via paternal apomixis (vs. fusion or doubling of haploid nuclei) and when females are the heterogametic sex (vs. male heterogamety). The apparent rarity of androgenesis compared to gynogenesis could be because androgenesis is harder to detect and more often leads to population extinction.

 

[Disco94]

Bump. Kinda like to know this too.

 

[BrianBadonde]

Bump. Kinda like to know this too.

Well you would need YY plants to begin with not XY for obvious reasons. Then you could do as is done with females.

 

[resin_lung]

Not really sure what I'm talking about but, wouldn't the seed still need to come from a female flower? Even if it was on a male plant? Like I said though, this is way beyond my scope.

 

[BrianBadonde]

Not really sure what I'm talking about but, wouldn't the seed still need to come from a female flower? Even if it was on a male plant? Like I said though, this is way beyond my scope.

well the YY would be reversed so it would show female flowers like in SamS thread on male clones transformed etc....

if XY plant was used you would still get females

 

[resin_lung]

Gotta check that thread out. Thanks

 

[BrianBadonde]

Gotta check that thread out. Thanks

its quite a good little read.. it explains how to create the YY and then you have options from this, though from reading it seems selfing the YY could be problematic, it would seem using a "true" XX to cross to would be a better option

 

[igrowone]

i'm not sure if this answers your question, but DJ Short and a few other breeders have written some articles on 'self fertile males'
these are males that will grow out pistils(which is not that rare), but those pistils are actually capable of producing viable seeds
these males are supposed to be quite rare, and desirable
i believe he claims their descendants will produce a higher ratio of females and will have fewer hermies
which doesn't answer your question directly, but doesn't sound like selfing a male plant will result in male seeds

 

[BrianBadonde]

i'm not sure if this answers your question, but DJ Short and a few other breeders have written some articles on 'self fertile males'
these are males that will grow out pistils(which is not that rare), but those pistils are actually capable of producing viable seeds
these males are supposed to be quite rare, and desirable
i believe he claims their descendants will produce a higher ratio of females and will have fewer hermies
which doesn't answer your question directly, but doesn't sound like selfing a male plant will result in male seeds

I'd say its an intersexed plant that will pass on intersex genes with regard to the late herm, so I'd expect more herms and females! wouldn't you?

"Whether 'male' plants can produce what appear to be female flowers is not in question; that's been documented. True 'male' plants will not produce pistillate flowers unless chemically/hormonally manipulated. Furthermore, these plants cannot produce seed, because two 'X' chromosomes are needed in order to produce ovules. The predominantly staminate flower producing plants (with late pistillate flowers) that Clarke refers to, are examples of an extreme expression of the intersex trait and as such, are not true 'males'.

Sincerely,
Charles."

 

[igrowone]

I'd say its an intersexed plant that will pass on intersex genes with regard to the late herm, so I'd expect more herms and females! wouldn't you?

if i was asked with no prior knowledge, i'd probably agree with you
but this observation seems to come from a very good source
i really don't know what to make of it, just beginning a very small breeding program
the article is on this site somewhere, think it might be a sticky
but i think these 'special' males have been key in DJ Shorts strains

 

[BrianBadonde]

if i was asked with no prior knowledge, i'd probably agree with you
but this observation seems to come from a very good source
i really don't know what to make of it, just beginning a very small breeding program
the article is on this site somewhere, think it might be a sticky
but i think these 'special' males have been key in DJ Shorts strains

Could it then explain while you still get intersexed plants from his "strains" or is it simply inherent to thai related "strains"

 

[igrowone]

Could it then explain while you still get intersexed plants from his "strains" or is it simply inherent to thai related "strains"

well, that's getting a bit beyond my limited expertise
what i vaguely recall of the article was these special males have a greater tendency to develop female traits, and this tendency is passed on in the form of a greater female ratio
but as we know, the breeding business is a very competitive business
this is likely just part of the story, there's probably much more not made public knowledge

 

[resin_lung]

Wait.... What would be the purpose of all male seeds anyway? lol

 

[BrianBadonde]

Wait.... What would be the purpose of all male seeds anyway? lol

Well you'd have a male or males that you know exactly what they pass on.. you could have a line derived from a so called "super" fem and "super" male, you'd know its not XXY etc it would have to be XY

 

[circadian clock]

the reason i wanted to have some male seeds was so i could have some males used for crossing. instead of having a limited number to work with i could possibly have a wider spectrum to choose from.seems like everybody has got good clones of females which is good because they produce buds, but when it came to crossing, males seemed they are the ones that nobody really had.

 

[circadian clock]

since nobody knows how to make male seeds is there a way i can produce more males from the seeds i already have. like some sort of stress early in their life so i can get males instead of females

 

[CapoDiesel]

males are XY, not YY. YY doesn't exist.

One way for increase ratio for males is when plant don't show pre-flowers yet if you increase for hotter temperature and high level of "K" and low of "N".

No way for 100% male generation.

 

[Claude Hopper]

i'm not sure if this answers your question, but DJ Short and a few other breeders have written some articles on 'self fertile males'
these are males that will grow out pistils(which is not that rare), but those pistils are actually capable of producing viable seeds
these males are supposed to be quite rare, and desirable
i believe he claims their descendants will produce a higher ratio of females and will have fewer hermies
which doesn't answer your question directly, but doesn't sound like selfing a male plant will result in male seeds

I've just noticed that the male I had chosen to breed has popped a few pistils from male flowers that also contain stamens.

Ticked me off because I noticed the pistils just 2 days after I killed my other male.

 

[igrowone]

^^^, yup a mixed male - not so rare, i've run into a few so far
my last 1 was pretty cool, the whole lower plant was male - 99% of it - at the very tip was a tiny female cola, about 1/2 inch in length
this is an interesting hobby, to say the least