Reading the tea leaves, seeking consensus.

[attila76]

ICMager community,

Please help. I need informed opinions, people that can "read the tea leaves" and have real experience solving problems.

Here is the problem: My beloved Barry's Berries (a Big BudX Grape Ape X Blue Venom) once renowed for its chocolate, berries, and fuel aroma, and with such chunky dense buds, the bag appeal

But now she has lost her mojo. Something is stressing out these plants. several cycles of them have displayed phosphorus deficiency. I am sure that they are being fed phosphorus but it is being locked out. And I can't figure out why.
I have perfected my ph; I test my runoff. Nor I am not burning them. They just refuse to uptake Phosphorus.
First, the aroma is gone, and changed into a weak piney smell. Like after one cuts into a pine 2x4, the sweet wet sawdust pine smell. Not good!
2nd Budding is very slow, at the 4th week the buds are still pinky size.
3rd, the leaves are far too abundant. (In fact I just trimed them back a lot. see pict.) Too dark, too small and too wrinkled. And yes I know that I shouldn't cut off any leaves. I just want the buds to get some light. This is straight to hash.
4th look at the brown dead areas in the trimmed leaves. Isnt that P def.

This is phosphorus deficiency right?

 

[10k]

Is this some kind of a quiz atilla76 ?
Because they're beautiful in my eyes except for the massive trim job

 

[attila76]

No its not a quiz. These plants are actually not healthy. This is phosphorus lockout. Look at the brown on the dark green leaves. See the shiny dark green/blue leaves with red stems.
And you cant smell the difference... this same strain is expressing itself in different ways.

 

[attila76]

info

info

What STRAIN are you growing? Barries Berries (Big Bud X Grape Ape X Blue Venom)
What was the establishing technique? clone
What is the age of your plants? problem becomes noticeable @ 3 weeks in flower
What PHASE are the plants in? flower
What Technique are you using? saturate straight with ph'd, tepid, wait 1/2 hr, add enough to test runoff (pour thru technique)
What substrate/medium are you using? Sunshine #4 soilless mix
What is the Nutrient temperature? 68-70.
What Nutrient's are you using? House and Garden Soil A&B with full additives, and molasses, and tiger bloom.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 800-1200ppm.
What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.8, runoff 6.3.
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? relentless, thats solid.
When was your last watering? 3-4 days. when bucket is light.
What size bulb are you using? 1000's
What is the distance to the canopy? 15"- 20"
What is your RH Factor? 40-60
What is the canopy temperature? 88 w/ co2
What is the Day/Night Temp? 88d- 60n
What is the current Air Flow? sealed-ish room
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? some, but not too much
Is your water HARD or SOFT? 120ppm tap
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched- yes all.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?- two week neem preventitive.
Are plant's infected with pest's. No a one.

 

[10k]

Last edited by attila76; Today at 12:39 AM.. Reason: changed pictures added description of problem

Oh ok I see, so you edited and took out this picture of one hell of a beautifully finishing plant in color changing late stage flowering.
excuse me, yea in that case there is an obvious P def showing in that pile of trimmed off leaves

 

[attila76]

ok so it is p def like I thought. I have provided phosphorus via tiger bloom and the regular house and garden soil a&b.

Therefore, this must be lock out. But why? what could repeatedly cause this? And can it be fixed?

I'm about to go legal big time. One man, 8 lights, legal and legit as it get. I gotta get this right. This is a big deal.

I have several sets that have encountered this problem. Unless I fix it ill be repeating the same mistake, and harvesting alot of piney crap. This is not good.

 

[attila76]

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[mysophilia]

Your needing Cal/Mag .... Without the cal/mag your are locking out the P.. Thats why ya see the purpling in the stems... Some parts of them leafs are showing yellowing in them with a green vein ( Mg ) ... Try using dolomite lime ( powdered ) ... This has got both cal/mg in it and will keep your ph stable too.. Ya gonna need to get green back into your leaves too, so start adding Epsom salt... Also seen ya sprayed Neem , so dont folliage feed any Epsom salt, .... Epsom salt has got sulfer in it and adding that to neem can be a big mistake...

 

[krunchbubble]

Your needing Cal/Mag .... Without the cal/mag your are locking out the P.. Thats why ya see the purpling in the stems... Some parts of them leafs are showing yellowing in them with a green vein ( Mg ) ... Try using dolomite lime ( powdered ) ... This has got both cal/mg in it and will keep your ph stable too.. Ya gonna need to get green back into your leaves too, so start adding Epsom salt... Also seen ya sprayed Neem , so dont folliage feed any Epsom salt, .... Epsom salt has got sulfer in it and adding that to neem can be a big mistake...

whow! slow your flow bro! calcium locks out phosphorus, big time and im suspecting that this is the problem.

everything looks good with the exception of the hardness of your water. that could be your calcium culprit......

also, sunshine mix is an inert medium, not soil, and your using h@g soil nutrients. imvho, i would dump the molasses and tiger bloom, just stick with the h@g nutrients, but switch to the aqua line. or just use the tigerbloom....in my experience, simpler is better! good luck!

 

[attila76]

Thanks Krunch,

I was using cal mag for a while... so maybe thats it.

Also just found some creepers in my soil. Might be root aphids... oh God not again.

 

[darrmann]

get some nematodes for the aphids in the soil, and I wouldnt suggest switching up your nutes in the middle. terrible idea that ive experienced myself. add some cal mag and a good foliar feed would get it to the plants alot quicker.