5000 barrels a day of oil (210,000 gallons) leak off the coast of Louisiana

[RudolfTheRed]

uggghhh, it was a little sarcasm go back and read my other (2-3) posts concerning the issue. i don't really like seafood so there's some half truth to that, and another part of me is just looking for some silver lining here. i am pissed off by the ecological effect this is going to have on our environment, and since i was a vegetarian for nearly 15 yrs. i have compassion for all wild life and i hate to see there habitats destroyed by MAN most of all.

and for some seafood is what its about. your going to see A LOT of people along the gulf suffer because they rely so heavily on the fishing & seafood industries. for the foreseeable future this industry is shot.

 

[Danks2005]

OMG...how can you not like seafood! Blackened Grouper.MMM. Shrimp Pasta.MMM. Scallops, Snapper, the list goes on, it's SO GOOD. What's surf n turf without the surf.

J/K

Your, right there are many, many people who's livelyhoods depend on the seafood industry. Somehow I don't see BP paying their mortgages, boat payments, and grocery bills forever.

 

[bombadil.360]

this is perhaps the saddest thing that has happened in quite a few decades... and man is to blame for it, as usual.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Obama will lose the next election if his administration is seen as too friendly to Big Oil. I heard Chris Matthews tell Jay Leno that 12 more rig permits were granted last week alone.

I know Obama is attempting to compromise with Big Oil and the large constituency of offshore drilling advocates. This is more than the profit seekers, millions of voters want offshore drilling even if it means 1% of our needs, twenty years from now. But that's only until they finally recognize why the moratorium was originated in the first place. With a single disaster the scale we've never seen, memory lapse of the reasons behind the moratorium compounded the decades of regulation demise. The result is we not only despise regulation, we forget why it's there in the first place. We're not really that absent minded, it just depends on how much we collectively respond to old money advocacy.

Pro drilling voters won't see Obama as just another link in a weak chain, they'll see Obama as THE weak link. But only until the next disaster. Evaporation of decades of existing regulation is systemic. No single president can possibly stem the tide of millions that forget the reasons why regulation was instituted. The former offshore moratorium as we knew it wasn't unfounded, environmental disaster was present and those in charge were accountable. We might be light years more capable in terms of drilling but we're 4 decades lost in our after the fact ability to respond.

If we continue to allow Big Oil to exploit dangerously deep expanses of territorial waters, we either have to mandate their own ability to respond effectively or we have to expand governments ability to do the job ourselves. If Big Oil goes somewhere else, so be it. Personally, I'd write it off as admission their safe operations are a pipe dream and they're only here now because we don't require necessary standards to prevent the next big spill.

But I expect they'll remain even when they're only allowed to operate under conditions better suited to disaster prevention as well as the ability to respond to disasters that won't completely disappear. Stronger regulation may stem negligence but won't be enough to render them a thing of the past. That's why a half dozen successive administrations chose to leave the moratorium in place. Big Oil profits won't add up as fast but they're in the oil business and we have oil.

It's not only a learning process but a process of acceptance that the majority of voters once recognized and accepted. Funny how a few decades and an immeasurable amount of pro-free enterprise advocacy gave us repeat mistakes we not only responded to but went the extra step to prevent or at least minimize future consequences.

Gulf oil generates Big Oil profit more than it helps us as individuals. We can conserve more than 1% of our own personal needs much easier than exploiting all the oil in the Gulf. Especially when you consider Americans waste 40% of our supplies. Even if you think that's propaganda, it's hard to argue adding another 1% will somehow mitigate the non-efficient use of 40%. And all this at the expense of an industry allowed to thwart the necessary measures that they aren't allowed to do elsewhere.

Drill advocates free of personal profit motivation don't see conflict of interest. Especially when international oil companies decide whether to sell their 1% to us or other countries. That's right folks, the royalty the US government receives doesn't decide whether we (United States) gets the oil. The global market runs on profit and the best option is always the highest possible price. We compete with the rest of the world when we buy it back from whoever sells it. It's directly attributable to the global free market that we have to wait 20 years to enjoy the benefits of a paltry 1%. There was a time that our own government explained the big pic to the people. But Big Oil doesn't want us to know that our own oil isn't ours until we buy it from them. That basically means we luck out paying the market price or wave bye-bye to tankers destined for foreign ports. We've only had ten years of record profits to recognize their bottom line doesn't coincide with majority of voters (as well as the rest of the population that doesn't have a vested interest i.e. profit.

Add disaster to the mix and you can see why Nixon, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush and Clinton all made different decisions than the last two presidents. Admittedly, they didn't have the deep water potential we have today. But they didn't have the disaster potential either.

Remember when the auto manufacturers warned of mass lay-offs if government didn't help with taxpayer money? The taxpayers that revolted didn't consider Big Oil's own subsidies as much as they consider paying for the price of a gallon of gas. We're not that dumb, we're just susceptible to the advocacy of old money because the info is selective, not comprehensive. If the domestic auto manufacturers were as aware of public opinion as well as ruthless enough to exploit it, not only would we more freely accept their wish to be on the dole, we wouldn't know as much about the outcomes. We'd be out of the information loop enough to go on with our daily lives. Without the all powerful Big Oil lobby, we'd have zoning laws that curtail urban sprawl. We'd have expansive mass-transit that would greatly reduce the requirement for individuals to have their own car. But since we enjoy the freedom to choose our own method of transportation, the auto industry would be flush with efficiency as opposed to extravagance. Extravagance in the form of countless millions of gas guzzlers that not only perpetuated our dependence on foreign sources of oil, the auto industry itself took a substantial hit and was perilously close to being history . These are jobs that drill advocates ignored, only to tout oil industry employment potential. Regardless of industry, the aspect of jobs is the same thing.


Auto manufacturing used to be a pretty big industry as well as lobbying force in Washington. But on their best day they were a drop in the Big Oil bucket. Oil companies aren't more efficient than Big Auto, they just have more cash to influence lawmakers. Their employment potential is a plus but only when disaster potential (especially under our current, lax regulations) is ignored. Forcing Big Oil to use standard industry measures won't threaten your personal livelihood unless your fear of strong regulation is influenced by selective info. If that's you, take a road trip to the Gulf and have a look see for yourself. Just remember we're maintaining the status quot that has to be changed to prevent or at least better control further disaster.

Atlantis is about 100 miles away from the spot Horizon crashed and burned. It's in waters 2000 feet deeper than Horizon used to be and the same blow out could do the same damage we have currently. But it would only take a week instead of a month. An insider whistle blower revealed BP doesn't have complete working blueprints of the rig. If something breaks, blueprints are the first step to repair. If disaster happens, a complete set of working blueprints is the only way folks working under unusual circumstances and pressures have a chance to do anything other than recognize lost lives and damage to the environment.

If you're an advocate of the drill baby drill crowd, you're duped if you're not personally profiting from operations. Even if you feel private business is threatened by stronger regulation. Even more so if you think your own personal freedoms are threatened by policing greed.

Waving the flag while the earth crumbles is romantic but it's not practical. Norwegian offshore oilfields arguably have as much or more to lose environmentally than the Gulf Of Mexico. Until you factor the mandated safety measures they not only allow the industry to self administer, they verify these safety measures so they greatly reduce a situation where associates blame each other like BP, Transocean and Haliburton chiefs did last month in DC.

Do you think drilling in the Gulf would be as attractive to Big Oil if executives had to deal with the same, mandated disaster prevention regulations the rest of the developed world requires? They're not here to give us jobs as much as they're exploiting our substandard laws. Anybody that evaluates all those jobs as a must without considering it's coming at the expense of what basically amounts to looting is only looking at part of the picture.

The enormous increase in gas prices from 2000 aren't all attributable to oil industry cost increases, as the industry enjoys more profit in the last decade than any time in their existence.

My post wasn't intended to hurt feelings or rile free market advocates. I'm a free marketeer myself. I just consider the potential for greed and recognize it as one of humanities greatest threats. Allowing greed to manifest on the scale Big Oil enjoys in US waters is compounded to the point ordinary folks don't have the necessary information to properly evaluate. An example is one of our members that automatically assumed the current administration is to blame because measures already in place were ignored. That's only part of a more complicated system we've operated under for a decade (maybe longer.)

Other than existing regulation environmental groups are the biggest obstacle to expansion of Big Oil operations. Running a business under cloak and veil is one way to dupe environmentalists but it only goes so far. The last ten years saw not only an erosion of in-place regulation, key appointments fostered a business/ government cooperation that helped minimize environmentalist's effectiveness.

 

[mrwags]

Are you intentionally forgetting the money the US made with these "off-shore" leases???

Of course not why would I. To allow someone to work in an environment that if it does go fubar you cannot get down and fix it is simply silly and the administration that allowed it should be hung by their nads but we all know thats never gonna happen so why waste the breath to talk about it?

Why not do what needs to be done now and figure out how to stop it? Oh yeah that's right they can't because it's to damn far down.GENIUS AT ITS BEST.


Mr.Wags

 

[flubnutz]

this is very, very bad.

oil slopping onto sandy beaches is bad enough (not to mention what's going on UNDERwater) ... but the oil getting into marshlands, you can't clean it up because of all of the marsh grasses. anybody know the effect on the grasses? if they start to die off, i'd think there will be erosion problems with storms and such. not to mention the catastrophic destruction of the critters living there.

im going for a big oyster feast asap ... it could be my last for a long time my heart goes out to folks in louisiana who have suffered so much in the past few years.

 

[dank.frank]

I was watching a congress session on CSPAN and they were talking to a lead scientist trying to see if BP was in fact giving accurate estimates of how much was leaking daily....

A collection of scientists said it was impossible the estimates given by BP are accurate, that the ACTUAL leakage may be at most 95,000 barrels a day...not at most 5k. Meaning, essentially, that while they also cannot accurately judge the amount, it is 10X +++ what was claimed....not sure if anyone has posted this yet or not...

If I was committed to other important things and people, I think I would be volunteering in the gulf to help clean up the animals right now...


dank.Frank

 

[hoosierdaddy]

If I was committed to other important things and people, I think I would be volunteering in the gulf to help clean up the animals right now...

Might be a little boring work. I hear they may have like 32 birds and a dozen turtles found so far with oil on them.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Maybe they're all dead on the ocean floor. Nah, just kidding. They probably just playing dead, trying to make us feel worse.

 

[Strainhunter]

this is very, very bad.

oil slopping onto sandy beaches is bad enough (not to mention what's going on UNDERwater) ... but the oil getting into marshlands, you can't clean it up because of all of the marsh grasses. anybody know the effect on the grasses? if they start to die off, i'd think there will be erosion problems with storms and such. not to mention the catastrophic destruction of the critters living there.

im going for a big oyster feast asap ... it could be my last for a long time my heart goes out to folks in louisiana who have suffered so much in the past few years.

Marshlands cannot be cleaned up, period.


Having worked in the oil (drilling) industry myself a LONG time ago I showed one of the now retired head supervisors the link I have in my thread:

LIVE from 5,000 below on the Gulf floor!

and he said he thinks the leak is roughly 30,000 barrels/24 hours.

The above is coming from a guy who started as a roughneck at the age of 16 and had been a Super for 23 years on a shallow water rig in Texas when he retired at the age of 68 so I would say he knows what he is talking about.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I find it funny how all these estimates float around. Look, the oil well was producing oil out of that very pipe they show us spewing. They know how much oil comes out of the friggin pipe a day. How would they not?

My logical thought about the flow would be that it is less now that it was coming out of the pipe as it has been for years. The orifice it is coming from is now releasing into a vastly increased amount of pressure, as opposed to before the incident the oil was allowed a virtually pressure free release valve...and they know exactly how much was coming from that spigot. And if I am correct in that the flow would be less with increased pressure resistance at the exit, then we should at least be glad this isn't spewing from the severed pipe a half mile down.

And I don't think anyone who was in the oil industry for a couple decades has any sort of insight into these things...how could they? They understand how things work in the free ocean with a mile of water on top of it? I think not. Hell, the main minds of the industry had no idea if the pressure of the ocean was going to smash that box thing they tried. But yeah, anyone who worked in the industry should have some sort of magical insight.

Anyone with basic math, and some understanding of fluid dynamics could easily estimate the flow of that spew...if they know the size of the pipe, they can estimate the rate of flow from that pipe from the video.
And surely the best judge of that estimation would be a match up to what they were producing from the well.

 

[LovableHuggable]

this is very, very bad.

oil slopping onto sandy beaches is bad enough (not to mention what's going on UNDERwater) ... but the oil getting into marshlands, you can't clean it up because of all of the marsh grasses. anybody know the effect on the grasses? if they start to die off, i'd think there will be erosion problems with storms and such. not to mention the catastrophic destruction of the critters living there.

im going for a big oyster feast asap ... it could be my last for a long time my heart goes out to folks in louisiana who have suffered so much in the past few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXtJiuraWU&feature=related

The Niger Delta would be a good place to look at how the future might be for our wetlands. It's a total mess there. Tried to find the documentary where a group hits the boat and films it but can't locate it. Thought it was on VBS.tv.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/02/nigerian-oil/kashi-photography

 

[Strainhunter]

I find it funny how all these estimates float around. Look, the oil well was producing oil out of that very pipe they show us spewing. They know how much oil comes out of the friggin pipe a day. How would they not?

My logical thought about the flow would be that it is less now that it was coming out of the pipe as it has been for years. The orifice it is coming from is now releasing into a vastly increased amount of pressure, as opposed to before the incident the oil was allowed a virtually pressure free release valve...and they know exactly how much was coming from that spigot. And if I am correct in that the flow would be less with increased pressure resistance at the exit, then we should at least be glad this isn't spewing from the severed pipe a half mile down.

And I don't think anyone who was in the oil industry for a couple decades has any sort of insight into these things...how could they? They understand how things work in the free ocean with a mile of water on top of it? I think not. Hell, the main minds of the industry had no idea if the pressure of the ocean was going to smash that box thing they tried. But yeah, anyone who worked in the industry should have some sort of magical insight.

Anyone with basic math, and some understanding of fluid dynamics could easily estimate the flow of that spew...if they know the size of the pipe, they can estimate the rate of flow from that pipe from the video.
And surely the best judge of that estimation would be a match up to what they were producing from the well.

I don't find it funny.

And as far the rest of your thread....while the rig was operating the oil was being PUMPED out, now it is just an Artesian Well.

There is a BIG difference between those two.

 

[Frozenguy]

Might be a little boring work. I hear they may have like 32 birds and a dozen turtles found so far with oil on them.

Go troll somewhere else man. Its really annoying.

 

[Frozenguy]

Anyone with basic math, and some understanding of fluid dynamics could easily estimate the flow of that spew...if they know the size of the pipe, they can estimate the rate of flow from that pipe from the video.
And surely the best judge of that estimation would be a match up to what they were producing from the well.

Thats interesting because third party fluid dynamic specialists have said it must be over 70,000 barrels a day.

And it is not basic math skills in fluid dynamics. Shows how elementary your education level is, especially when you make ridiculous comments like they can estimate the flow rate from the pipe based off its diameter. If you had any basic skills you would realize it also depends on the force behind the fluid, among others.

Again, go troll somewhere else.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Look, stick troll up your ass.

I am fully aware of ALL of the variable that must be taken into account for an accurate estimate. You did see me mention about the pressure of a mile of ocean, yes?
I suppose a simple mind might conclude that the only variable that I was considering were the pipe size, but that would be a simple mind.

Dewd, throw you shit elsewhere, and don't call me a troll. It is YOU that are trolling.

 

[ROJO145]

My logical thought about the flow would be that it is less now that it was coming out of the pipe as it has been for years. The orifice it is coming from is now releasing into a vastly increased amount of pressure, as opposed to before the incident the oil was allowed a virtually pressure free release valve...and they know exactly how much was coming from that spigot. And if I am correct in that the flow would be less with increased pressure resistance at the exit, then we should at least be glad this isn't spewing from the severed pipe a half mile down.

LOL,Oh YOU are brilliant arent you!!!!!What an absolute fucking retarded statement!!!!But you know that

 

[ROJO145]

More..........

And I don't think anyone who was in the oil industry for a couple decades has any sort of insight into these things...how could they?

And yer the smartest one in the holler aint ya!!!!!

 

[VirginHarvester]

honestly, all of the shit bp is doing right now is probably more for apearances than anything else. there will only be permanent solution when they finish the relief well(s).

I have been wondering why wells like this aren't made with relief wells from the start. Too expensive to do for every well?

It boggles my mind to thin k of the trillions of dollars these oil companies have made over the last century but no one has ever given a thought to developing some type of ship that can pick up surface sea water (that's full of oil) and seperate it and return the cleaned sea water back into it.

I was also wondering why the oil companies don't have something like this. If every oil company operated one they could have reciprocal agreements to help each other(at a price). Maybe the technology to separate oil from water is not available?

 

[Frozenguy]

Look, stick troll up your ass.

I am fully aware of ALL of the variable that must be taken into account for an accurate estimate. You did see me mention about the pressure of a mile of ocean, yes?
I suppose a simple mind might conclude that the only variable that I was considering were the pipe size, but that would be a simple mind.

Dewd, throw you shit elsewhere, and don't call me a troll. It is YOU that are trolling.

if they know the size of the pipe, they can estimate the rate of flow from that pipe from the video.

A simple mind would take this word for word. But an intelligent mind would be able to interpret what you meant? Ok.. ya.. like interpretation is all intelligence and not bias.

Maybe I didn't see you mention something else that is legitimate but that doesn't excuse this comment.

And I say troll because you keep excusing the oil spill as a problem when it is a big problem with potential to wreak havoc.