The Organic Think Tank

[grapeman]

A little vision casting for you guys convinced you understand it all

Taking a natural world, and re-engineering it so you can use just elements to grow flora, can be likened to civil war surgery in its efficiency and relative place in plant science

if you think killing all life and making a place sterile so you can get max bio-mass as the pinnacle of our capacity to work with nature and get the most interacting with the biological world you are wrong and short sighted

I can site world record crop harvest and production using organics, tht this is indeed the growing trend, organics is and will be the incumbent science of the future

WHY

because thinking we knew more than mother nature is what caused the kansas dust bowl and all the other degradation to balanced ecosystems that existed for MILLENNIUM before us

we are evolutions self monitoring apex creature, the evolution permeation of which we obviously designed with the capacity to sense balance and maintain it

minds that are sharply focused on one facet of agriculture will get stuck on non relative experience to paint the whole of the future of agriculture cause we already know it all

or because the perceived loss of ego we suffer when we feel our body of knowledge is less than those around us, as to say in some way we internalize and equate this to reflect our value as human being

claiming complete understanding because you posses a static truth in a dynamic world is does not provide an array of truth in computational equations unless all factors are relative to your personal experience

we have identified less than 1% of the microbiology in the soil and how it interacts with plants

new bacterias are being discovered, studied and put to market

i did some due diligence and research and was very surprised by the findings


just look at how hard the paradigm of "others" findings effect how we deploy our own techniques

and what was some of the most sound advice about breaking through grow barriers, came from Tom earlier on

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

I find most of your posts interesting. But if you think only man has ever contributed to the creation of a dust bowl or desert, you need to think again. Not all organic systems are sustainable indefinitely. They can come and go all on their own..... and have done so.

Further research will allow farmers/growers to use the best of natural growth regimens and tweak them with science for better yields, taste and sustainability in the near future. An inescapable fact. It's coming whether you respect it or not.

Your comments about other growers pounding their chests with large egos sort of falls flat with the simular nature of your own posts.

 

[SupraSPL]

I don't think science has perfected agriculture enough to allow them to call the shots

+1 This applies to chem ferts and bioengineering too. Ecosystems have built in evolutionary knowledge that were hard won through trial and error. There is an amazing system of checks and balances that leaves room for adaptability and includes built in fail-safes. Humans are arrogant and ignorant to suggest that we know better or that we understand these systems completely.

There is a practical economical angle also. Sustainable systems are always cheaper in the long run (and the short run too in many cases). Individuals living in the ecosystem are afforded a nice quality of life and in return they provide ecosystem services. If you take control of that system then you it becomes your job to perform the services that were previously provided "for free". So if I had to put my money on it I'd go with nature > petrochemically derived chems.

So can you grow cannabis that will get the job done using only chems? For most smokers yes. Technically drug cultivars are far from "natural" and our elite cuts wouldn't be elite for long if we let nature have its way with them. The difference is in the long term view and self reliance.

But I think we can have our cake and eat it too. I don't want to depend on AN or similar to provide me with what I to grow, I would rather spend my time and money learning how to manage a sustainable system that I can run on my own if need be. Its a real value and the rewards are so nice too!

 

[Vermonster]

I learned to grow in VT, I am not sure they can even sell chemical ferts up there. hahah. Anyway i have used the most OG of OG soil mixes, i have used chem ferts...i find a healthy medium and some watered in OG teas perform the best for me. All of them produce similarly, the only mild difference i notice is in taste and flavor; Do any of you smoke Tabacoo? if you do you probably have never truly smelled or tasted canna, i know i hadn't till i quite.

ps: i have only read page 1 of this thread at this point.

 

[Suby]

Actually GW is only 1/2 alien. GHW is a space alien.

Dna test would prove/disprove the Mariah claim.

Anyone that says "the only way to" is full of shit and should not be listened to.

Organics don't suck, they're great outdoors, especially in fields where annual farming is going to continue. The longer you grow in an outdoor spot, the better it gets when you use proper organics. Organics rock in your veggie garden and for your fruit trees and in your annual 'secret garden spot'.

Indoors refined mineral nutes suit my preferences better, though any one of dozens of other nute regimens or organic builds may suit yours better.

Growing, and life in general, is not a test with a right answer which makes all other answers wrong.


It is worth noting:
N is not organic
P is not organic
K is not organic
Mg is not organic
Ca is not organic.
Without those inorganic minerals plants could not live.
Plants can thrive without any organic compounds.

Great post Head, you and I have had our differences in the past but I think your posts have taught me that both sides of a coin can be made to shine.

Sub

 

[mrwags]

I love this guy! I swear, you learn more about hydro in the organics debate (think tank) than in the fertilizer or hydro forums! I'ma spend more time in here!

I gotta say after all these years we have FINALLY gotten one of these types of threads with substance.

I like now how everyone is blowing it up with pics

It makes it kinda nice that way to simply show an opinion and the results from it. Kinda like Wow man that looks nice. I think I might TRY that myself. What works for one might not work for the other BUT to say you cannot learn even from something that might be bad is IMO approaching our hobby with a closed mind and makes it damn hard to learn anything more if you know it all already. That is what has killed these threads in the past. "I'm right NO I'm right kinda thing instead of hey I do this and this is what I got so you might wanna IF YOU CHOOSE TO give it a try and maybe god for bid you might learn something along the way.

Thank You All For That
Mr.Wags

 

[NiteTiger]

Not too shabby for a locked thread *smug*

/tease wags

 

[baet]

.

 

[baet]

A little vision casting for you guys convinced you understand it all

Taking a natural world, and re-engineering it so you can use just elements to grow flora, can be likened to civil war surgery in its efficiency and relative place in plant science

if you think killing all life and making a place sterile so you can get max bio-mass as the pinnacle of our capacity to work with nature and get the most interacting with the biological world you are wrong and short sighted

I can site world record crop harvest and production using organics, tht this is indeed the growing trend, organics is and will be the incumbent science of the future

WHY

because thinking we knew more than mother nature is what caused the kansas dust bowl and all the other degradation to balanced ecosystems that existed for MILLENNIUM before us

we are evolutions self monitoring apex creature, the evolution permeation of which we obviously designed with the capacity to sense balance and maintain it

minds that are sharply focused on one facet of agriculture will get stuck on non relative experience to paint the whole of the future of agriculture cause we already know it all

or because the perceived loss of ego we suffer when we feel our body of knowledge is less than those around us, as to say in some way we internalize and equate this to reflect our value as human being

claiming complete understanding because you posses a static truth in a dynamic world is does not provide an array of truth in computational equations unless all factors are relative to your personal experience

we have identified less than 1% of the microbiology in the soil and how it interacts with plants

new bacterias are being discovered, studied and put to market

i did some due diligence and research and was very surprised by the findings


just look at how hard the paradigm of "others" findings effect how we deploy our own techniques

and what was some of the most sound advice about breaking through grow barriers, came from Tom earlier on

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

 

[Vermonster]

one other thing, you guys dont consider the fact that true OG products are usualy worth more $$$....once the canna industries has some reals standards this may actualy matter.....nowadays every jack ass who grows larf calls it OG.....thats sad, that a lot of people associate OG w lack of quality.....

 

[grapeman]

This thread is deteriorating quickly.

 

[JJScorpio]

If I could I can proove now that inorganic was bad for you/would kill you would you EAT it?? This is the Main problem in the world this sentence not many people GET IT!! the people of the usa in 1 of the states got fluride in the water, another state had,,,, LEAD!! you know that this just concentraits boiling in the kettle!! 8 weeks after it happened they gave the neighbourhood a panflet saying all about it,, what a sthitty bunck of fucks that can't drill oil, Sorry!! lead in the water,,, I dread to think how some of you live!!! I still want to do a live video diary in my kitchen comparing hydrochem to organic lettuce sold to posh pattetable arictorcrats and french ponces!! I can't see it selling copys but it would be an invaluble source of produce and information if its not full of vitamins, and decomposes at the normal rate not taking twice as long like monsanta genetics,or needing weed killer to germinate!!! WTF is the fucking USA up 2 in their quest for New world order and germination of all the human dna on the moon.., did you know monsanta had a corn farm next to a family corn farm ran buisness.. by accident on harvest day,, the monsanta truck harvested the right field but purposely overturned onto its side spilling the grain so that next season they were able to claim the familys land,, Well try that over in the uk and see if it would happen,, with me and I'll blow you mother716234ng kids your dog I got people on the pay roll that deal with these matters Irish killers, not fond of much,, IRAQ is just IRA woithout the Q, Why are the USA in Afghanistan and IRAQ I thought sadam was the head of saudi arabia I heard they owned the USA,, HA HA owned by a stinky afghan Or am I on about Bin Hiding time on dialasis man.. The usa need to sort there messes hands up for the masterpice of 911 tho the govnerment had that plan down cold so cold cold whers the gold gone???

We got a report regarding your posts and I took a look at some of them. It seems you like to post rude "better than thou" type posts. That craps going to end. If I receive one more complaint regarding your rude posts I'll be showing you the door....

 

[Lazyman]

Agreed, if we could delete Cannaboy's posts this thread wouldn't be half bad.

 

[Danks2005]

Can't understand what he's trying to say anyway

 

[RNDZL]

Agreed, if we could delete Cannaboy's posts this thread wouldn't be half bad.

I think the real point of think tank is not painting any one point of view as unsavory, but quite the opposite, to inject thought and insight and let the most viable ones, evolve, rise to the top as a variable in an attempt to maintain progress

so injecting ideas

great

doing it comparatively as in to drag ones e-balls over some ones else e-face

meh

not so productive

but then again

what the fuck do i know

 

[xmobotx]

you know, i m mad about the things the big cos are doing too
one of the issues i take w/ storebought bottled nutes

but, i figure the best thing i can do is try to clear up the confusion
*people, we don't need the grow store. no need for monsanto et al

just too many "spoon fed masses" -people do need to take their own future into their own hands. I'm not optimistic. but, speaking to the individual.

its just my way of saying that i hear you cannaboy

but settle down man, take a breath - maybe leave the "politics" out?

 

[xmobotx]

now it makes sense,

Much of it is actually being burned, or claimed by desertification. Nothing we can do about the latter, but the former, uh yeah quit burning rainforests!

yeah, it's just kinda tough for the US to tell south america not to do what it did

kinda like big brother telling his little brother the same - little bro does it anyway

i m not a fanatic about it, but it doesn't make sense when the train/truck headed E is passing the train/truck headed W and they are both carrying the same goods

the landowner can do a lot by managing their woodlot

funny how these things come back to the individual (though we didn't create the issue)

 

[RNDZL]

all of mankind is in the process of learning at its own expense

what is the final cost?

 

[xmobotx]

all of mankind is in the process of learning at its own expense

what is the final cost?

sorry but, jeremiah 10:23

 

[Danks2005]

Just what we needed, a verse from the Bible.

 

[xmobotx]

ever notice the organic guys tend to be more spiritual or earth-wise and the chem guys tend to be more science/atheist?

maybe i read too much in?