Genetic Drift..Population genetics.. mutations..

[Texicannibus]

thanks a ton bro ive tried to ask that a couple times now probably ineffectively. I kept reading this info and trying to figure out how to apply it to cannabis was difficult but if its polygenic or quantitive that makes sense as to why we breed why we do ... cant do mendelian if we wanted to right?

 

[Texicannibus]

gene expression is the most fundamental level at which genotype gives rise to the phenotype....

sometimes a heterozygote might have a phenotype that is more pronounced or better adapted than that of either homozygote...

Genetic basis of heterosis. Dominance hypothesis. Scenario A. Fewer genes are under-expressed in the homozygous individual. Gene expression in the offspring is equal to the expression of the fittest parent. Overdominance hypothesis. Scenario B. Over-expression of certain genes in the heterozygous offspring. (The size of the circle depicts the expression level of gene A)

The dominance hypothesis attributes the superiority of hybrids to the suppression of undesirable recessive alleles from one parent by dominant alleles from the other. It attributes the poor performance of inbred strains to loss of genetic diversity

The overdominance hypothesis attributes to heterozygote advantage the survival of many alleles that are recessive and harmful in homozygotes. It attributes the poor performance of inbred strains to a high percentage of these harmful recessives.

Often, the advantages and disadvantages conveyed are rather complicated, because more than one gene may influence a given trait or morph. Major genes almost always have multiple effects (pleiotropism), which can simultaneously convey separate advantageous traits and disadvantageous traits upon the same organism. In this instance, the state of the organism's environment will provide selection, with a net effect either favoring or working in opposition to the gene, until an environmentally-determined equilibrium is reached.

Having read for the last couple days in free time this post makes alot more sense ... I actually need to re-read alot of this stuff now that I have a little bit better grasp of what this stuff means. thanks again guys for trying to help me and im sure in helping me you will be helping others

 

[Texicannibus]

So basically this is what we call hybrid vigor as well as the tendency of very good consistancy with f1 crosses?

 

[englishrick]

hybrid vigor = Heterosis

the reason F1 crosses are "uniform" is because of the basic dom and recessive traits,,,,you will see mainly dom traits in an F1,,,,,the recessives dont realy popup untill the F2,,,,,,,,,,basicly you dont get a mishmash in the F1`s,,,,you get the mishmash in the F2`s...

solution s present a compromise between system reliability and system cost..,,,,,,,,,,,this is the gameplan!!!,,,no doubt,,no stress!!


selection is always in relation to dominance among individuals in the "current" population,,,,,as 2pac would say "thats just the way it is!!!"..."ahhh yehhhh"

germplasm is evaluated according penlized fitness values...... on the other hand, the nondominated individuals continue and are candidae solutions that may be stored in the "multiobjective genetic algorithm"....

 

[JackTheGrower]

Cool..

Doesn't help he get my thoughts around two normal bud style parents having foxtail offspring but maybe the F2's will go back to normal bud style?

I will read my book here.. Thanx

 

[Texicannibus]

Only thing that comes to mind is enviromental conditions wich Ive been told can make plants foxtail...

 

[VenturaHwy]

I consider this a mutant. I grew out 130 seeds to find mutants and found only one that stayed a mutant. It's a DJ's F13 x Ace Panama. The mother was a bit of a mutant. There's more pics in my gallery. She's an odd duck for sure.

veg


seedling



flower

Interesting looking plant, not sure why you wanted it though.

Here's some pictures of my virus infected plant, it looked almost identical. If I had taken more pictures I could post one that was more like yours since it had a lot of different looks to it. The virus looked different on each plant, indica's looked much different than sativa's.

When it would get into the growing tip, the top would grow so slow and mangled that the side branches would overtake it. I had this plant forever...

The cannabis infirmary has many virus threads and pictures.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Here are the viruses that can infect cannabis -

At least five viruses cause problems in hemp: the hemp streak virus (HSV), alfalfa mosaic virus (AMV), cucumber mosaic virus (CMV), arabis mosaic virus (ArMV) and hemp mosaic virus (HMV)
(McPartland 1999).

http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/hemp/IHA/iha03111.html

Viruses rarely kill Cannabis. They only exist and replicate in living plants. Viruses can, however, seriously reduce yields. Once acquired, they are nearly impossible to eradicate. Viruses invade all parts of plants. Pollen and seed infections transmit viruses to subsequent generations.

Five viral syndromes are described in the literature. In addition to these naturally-occurring infections, Hartowicz et al. (1971) screened 22 common plant viruses for their ability to infect wild hemp. Over half the viruses could infect Cannabis.

 

[Texicannibus]

Thanks Venturahwy for contribution.

Anyone care to ellaborate on what they consider to be a mutant in cannabis? If these virus' that effect the dna and offspring are not mutants can anyone give a different example?

 

[3dDream]

Interesting looking plant, not sure why you wanted it though.

VenturaHwy - I started a project looking for purple plants with pink pistils and ended up finding interesting mutants. This is a hobby for me. The plant is a bit slow growing, but would be great for super stealthy grows if it was stable in seed form. The leaves are dark green and textured, not like normal plants at all. The flowers even have fine wispy pistils that are barely visible so the flowers look mostly green. The smell and high are also nice. I guess I am keeping it because it is unique and beautiful.

BTW the leaves do not curl or bunch, they unfold as they grow straight out the top of the plant. She's designed to be this way, not reacting. I know this because her sisters grew out of it or even reveged out of this expression. Then again it could also be her sisters grew out of a virus? Either way this thing might not ever pan out. I can't get her to clone.

 

[DocLeaf]

Viruses rarely kill Cannabis. They only exist and replicate in living plants. Viruses can, however, seriously reduce yields. Once acquired, they are nearly impossible to eradicate. Viruses invade all parts of plants. Pollen and seed infections transmit viruses to subsequent generations.

In seed lines this is evident is low germination rates and weak seedlings. In clone lines this is evident in "dwarfes" (clones of clones of clones that display patterns of stunted growth)

Recent studies in humans has shown that malnutrition during the early stages of a mothers development,, can lead to obesity in their children. This is related to the cord that entwines the DNA strand, (that scientists are attempting to unravel) and the study of any subsequent genetic shift,, over a single generation. Interesting stuff

 

[Texicannibus]

What would you guys consider this? Epigenetic expression? hybrid vigour?

 

[DocLeaf]

Looks like a plant with long internodal gaps up top

Mutations are the really twisted stuff,, which are totally a-typical to the genetically norm.

We tend to grtow off healthy seed stocks,, so dont ahve many examples,, sorry.

 

[yoss33]

A nice thread with a lot of info (thanks to all!) and, unfortunately, a lot of ego business and a valuable member gone.

 

[Texicannibus]

Looks like a plant with long internodal gaps up top

Mutations are the really twisted stuff,, which are totally a-typical to the genetically norm.

We tend to grtow off healthy seed stocks,, so dont ahve many examples,, sorry.

Hmm think your not seeing how this things growing bro. Thats a lower axial that has outgrown a top bud,its the popcorn axial below the top bud with the long internodal lengths. That picture was taken at about 18 days into flower at most. Im documenting the latest run of this plant and not seeing this same crazy spurt style growth thus why I think it had to be some sort of enviromental response. Im at about 9 days into flower now and she didnt stretch hardly at all this time (topped). Its a very strange plant the most vigourous Ive grown in my limited experience. Its named freaktard in my album if you want to take a look.

 

[Mr. Alkaline]

-I'm just passing through...(Disclaimer)

Mutation is a transformation in the yards or property line between neighbors, iow, cells.
...There exisit about 3 forms of causation to my memory.

And the behavior profile of the cause is somewhat transferred into the healthy cell, if memory serves me.


Nonetheless, you have molecules interacting and they exchange electrons and protons which are tHe basis of the effects.
(I am a very simple minded person btw)

The individual molecule is a unit of a specific 'Meaning'....whether a drug, virus, chemical agent, gene....these all have set meaning.

The agenda between one or more molecules is not really set in stone....and the final meaning/factor, from their interaction is situational at best,( to my understanding.)

But if you eat the burned toast, you are swallowing molecules that are missing an electron....and they will exploit the structure of what they interface with in your body at a 1:1 encounter.

Depending on 'what' touches 'what'...literally lays the groundwork of the finale, according to domino arrangements.

We use words like 'systemic' to describe a particular domino senario.
...And, to me, the cause of the mutation is eternally debatable, as-is an agreed upon 'actual reality'.

Yet, we can all see the distorted behavioral displays from mutation- at the physical and chemical standpoint/outputs.

Sometimes mutation can make a new cannabis high via transforming the bud oil compositions, but the cacophony of molecules can inhibit or halt plant function entirely, similar to what Arizona told L.A. Regarding boycott of commerce......"We supply a quarter of L.A.'s electricity,...perhaps you can do without the Electrons!"

 

[Mr. FatBud]

great info here

 

[Texicannibus]

Thanks Mr Alkaline feel free to drop in anytime...

This was posted earlier today..

Hay Sam I noticed that original link is dead. Here is the new Link



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100324142012.htm

University of California - Davis (2010, March 25). Plant breeding breakthrough: Offspring with genes from only one parent. ScienceDaily.

University of California - Davis. "Plant Breeding Breakthrough: Offspring With Genes from Only One Parent." ScienceDaily 25 March 2010. 22 May 2010 <http://www.sciencedaily.com* /releases/2010/03/100324142012.htm>.

Plant Breeding Breakthrough: Offspring With Genes from Only One Parent
ScienceDaily (Mar. 25, 2010) — A reliable method for producing plants that carry genetic material from only one of their parents has been discovered by plant biologists at UC Davis. The technique, to be published March 25 in the journal Nature, could dramatically speed up the breeding of crop plants for desirable traits.

The discovery came out of a chance observation in the lab that could easily have been written off as an error.

"We were doing completely 'blue skies' research, and we discovered something that is immediately useful," said Simon Chan, assistant professor of plant biology at UC Davis and co-author on the paper.

Like most organisms that reproduce through sex, plants have paired chromosomes, with each parent contributing one chromosome to each pair. Plants and animals with paired chromosomes are called diploid. Their eggs and sperm are haploid, containing only one chromosome from each pair.

Plant breeders want to produce plants that are homozygous -- that carry the same trait on both chromosomes. When such plants are bred, they will pass the trait, such as pest resistance, fruit flavor or drought tolerance, to all of their offspring. But to achieve this, plants usually have to be inbred for several generations to make a plant that will "breed true."

The idea of making a haploid plant with chromosomes from only one parent has been around for decades, Chan said. Haploid plants are immediately homozygous, because they contain only one version of every gene. This produces true-breeding lines instantly, cutting out generations of inbreeding.

Existing techniques to make haploid plants are complicated, require expensive tissue culture and finicky growing conditions for different varieties, and only work with some crop species or varieties. The new method discovered by Chan and postdoctoral scholar Ravi Maruthachalam should work in any plant and does not require tissue culture.

Ravi and Chan were studying a protein called CENH3 in the laboratory plant Arabidopsis thaliana. CENH3 belongs to a group of proteins called histones, which package DNA into chromosomes. Among the histones, CENH3 is found only in the centromere, the part of the chromosome that controls how it is passed to the next generation.

When cells divide, microscopic fibers spread from each end of the cell and attach at the centromeres, then pull the chromosomes apart into new cells. That makes CENH3 essential for life.

Ravi had prepared a modified version of CENH3 tagged with a fluorescent protein, and was trying to breed the genetically modified plants with regular Arabidopsis. According to theory, the cross should have produced offspring containing one mutant gene (from the mother) and one normal gene (from the father). Instead, he got only plants with the normal gene.

"At first we threw them away," Chan said. Then it happened again.

Ravi, who has a master's degree in plant breeding, looked at the plants again and realized that the offspring had only five chromosomes instead of 10, and all from the same parent.

The plants appear to have gone through a process called genome elimination, Chan said. When plants from two different but related species are bred, chromosomes from one of the parents are sometimes eliminated.

Genome elimination is already used to make haploid plants in a few species such as maize and barley. But the new method should be much more widely applicable, Ravi said, because unlike the process for maize and barley, its molecular basis is firmly understood.

"We should be able to create haploid-inducing lines in any crop plant," Ravi said. Once the haploid-inducing lines are created, the technique is easy to use and requires no tissue culture -- breeders could start with seeds. The method would also be useful for scientists trying to study genes in plants, by making it faster to breed genetically pure lines.

After eliminating half the chromosomes, Chan and Ravi had to stimulate the plants to double their remaining chromosomes so that they would have the correct diploid number. Plants with the haploid number of chromosomes are sterile.

The research also casts some interesting light on how species form in plants. CENH3 plays the same crucial role in cell division in all plants and animals. Usually, such important genes are highly conserved -- their DNA is very similar from yeast to whales. But instead, CENH3 is among the fastest-evolving sequences in the genome.

"It may be that centromere differences create barriers to breeding between species," Chan said. Ravi and Chan plan to test this idea by crossing closely-related species.

The work was supported by a grant from the Hellman Family Foundation.

Quoted from linked article:

 

[mean mr.mustard]

indifferent - really? I never would have thought that. I'm gonna have to do some digging. I've never seen flowers or leaves like these before.

I've seen a female flower put out five stamens instead of two pistls. Life experience will give you many mutants... take note... and possibly clones!

I thought that all traits was passed down as either dominant or non dominant is that wrong? Are you saying that a truebreeding female passes all desirable traits?

The word is recessive. Look up the definition of truebreeding on f'n GOOGLE.

Why is this so hard? I don't understand your pressing of people to press knowledge most have to pay for on someone who doesn't bother to read up, let alone pay tuition.

 

[DocLeaf]

-I'm just passing through...(Disclaimer)

Mutation is a transformation in the yards or property line between neighbors, iow, cells.
...There exisit about 3 forms of causation to my memory.

And the behavior profile of the cause is somewhat transferred into the healthy cell, if memory serves me.


Nonetheless, you have molecules interacting and they exchange electrons and protons which are tHe basis of the effects.
(I am a very simple minded person btw)

The individual molecule is a unit of a specific 'Meaning'....whether a drug, virus, chemical agent, gene....these all have set meaning.

The agenda between one or more molecules is not really set in stone....and the final meaning/factor, from their interaction is situational at best,( to my understanding.)

But if you eat the burned toast, you are swallowing molecules that are missing an electron....and they will exploit the structure of what they interface with in your body at a 1:1 encounter.

Depending on 'what' touches 'what'...literally lays the groundwork of the finale, according to domino arrangements.

We use words like 'systemic' to describe a particular domino senario.
...And, to me, the cause of the mutation is eternally debatable, as-is an agreed upon 'actual reality'.

Yet, we can all see the distorted behavioral displays from mutation- at the physical and chemical standpoint/outputs.

Sometimes mutation can make a new cannabis high via transforming the bud oil compositions, but the cacophony of molecules can inhibit or halt plant function entirely, similar to what Arizona told L.A. Regarding boycott of commerce......"We supply a quarter of L.A.'s electricity,...perhaps you can do without the Electrons!"

Great post