General Cloning Questions

[ArdabusRubber]

Hi! I'm new here, and new to cloning. I have read plenty about it, but I've got a few questions.

Where I'm at: I have 16 babies in rockwool, about 8" tall... a few roots have started showing. I'm using 5-6 ph water, three times a day. The humidity is 85%, the temp is around 80. There is a heating mat under the domed tray, a 24watt flourescent light about 10" above the dome. the tray is lined with clay pellets. I also spray with neem oil once a day to help with fungus or mold. i also have the dome cracked about 1/2 inch, and a fan blowing on it so there is a bit of air flow.

My questions: They seem a little droopy, and some of the leaf tips are curling up. Is this because of lack of water? Heat stress? Any suggestions to fix this?
Should there be any run-off holes on the tray?
Should the clay pellets always be moist? The rockwool is always moist...
I saw what looks like mold on the plastic case on a few of the rockwool cubes, looks like a black fingerprint on the outside. should i remove the plastic? anything else i can do for this?
should i start giving them nutrients? maybe 1/4 strength bloom?

any tips or suggestions from the information i've given would be awesome. i really don't want them to die

-AR

 

[ArdabusRubber]

anyone have some tips? please

 

[Neo 420]

Question:
Why do you have clay pellets?
Why the neem oil?

The rockwool should be moist. Not soping wet but barely moist. Slow down on the water..

 

[bobcat1963]

Here is what I would do.Lose the fan the dome,the heat mat and stop spraying them,If you are showing roots you do not need the dome,some people never use one.This is just my opinion,I am sure others will chime in.

 

[ArdabusRubber]

cool, i will try loosing the dome.

i put the clay pellets because i assumed there needed to be something else in the tray with the rockwool, otherwise exposed roots are just touching the bottom of the tray.

and i'm using the neem because i read and was told it would help with fungus or mold. is that incorrect? i saw what looked like a fingerprint's worth of blackish stuff on the plastic covering the rockwool. should i remove the plastic, clay and stop with the neem?

thanks for the help!

 

[superultramega]

The neem is a solution in search of a problem.

I pull the plastic off the rockwool because black stuff grows on the paper they use to stick them together in the package. Although this is only out of superstition. I have let it run many times with the, unknown to me what it is, black stuff growing on it with no problems whatsoever.

I also start with a feed of 2ml/gal GH GBM from day one. There is no reason your plants would prefer to have zero nutrients outside the minerals in the water. There is a time where they need nutrients to keep growing. Have it there ready for them. Your plants are past that point.

Sounds like you're... ah... fingerfucking them. Let them do their thing. You don't need to smother them, just give them what they want. Light, water, food. (within reason, it can't be 40deg in the room) KISS.

 

[ArdabusRubber]

haha, thanks for all the advice! i will just let them be, they seem to be doing well today.

it's also good to know that i've found a great forum that responds to stuff quickly... you are awesome, thanks

 

[Neo 420]

I have 16 babies in rockwool, about 8" tall... a few roots have started showing.

Do not feed the clones that are not yet rooted. The ones that are rooted feed away!!

I personally would not remove the grodan paper (or whatever brand you use) from the cubes. If roots grow out the sides you do not want light to hit them. But you may do as you wish...

Are you vegging them in the same tray you are rooting them in?

 

[ArdabusRubber]

thanks! they have at least a few visible roots on each one, so i will probably start feeding tomorrow or the next day.

i only removed the plastic that had the black on it, only five of the 16. i think it is just whatever adhesive they use?

and i'm not vegging them in the tray, thats just until they have more roots and are ready to transplant.

thanks for the help! i really appreciate it... even if this is a noob question.

 

[Neo 420]

The reason why I asked about the clay pellets is I thought you may have been vegging them in the same tray. Next round you do not need the pellets. Once the roots are poking out in numbers its time to do your thang with them. Good luck and keep us posted with your results.

 

[cannagirl]

It sounds like your overwatering them as well, 3 times a day in rockwool with a dome is probably to much. Also I would only start feeding them with half strength food, you dont want to burn them out. Also dont remove the paper on the outside as Neo said you dont want the roots getting hit with light and the paper also helps keep the green algae to a minimum on the sides.

You probably dont need to be neeming them already unless the clones have systemic PM, in which case the neem wont really work anyways, so yeah you dont really need the neem. If your worried about mites you can treat them with azatrol or azamax or floramite. For PM you can use diluted skim milk, 10 parts water 1 part skim.

 

[!!!]

Lower humidity and water the RW cubes, and keep watering when they are about to dry. The plant should take care of the rest. Feed at 1/4th strength, but make sure they don't dry out.

 

[superultramega]

You can feed them right away with a light concentration. Hence I recommended 2mL/gal of each grow, bloom, micro GH nutes. There is no reason not to feed them immediately. There also is little reason to feed them from the start. That reason is to be sure they have food when they can start to use it. So I start from day one.

I also wouldn't worry about roots coming out the sides of the cubes and getting exposed to light. They just die off. Not the whole root, just the part that is exposed to light. I've actually looked into this a bit and the roots continue to grow again as soon as they are surrounded my a growing medium again.
Also, the type of green algae that grows on the sides and top of the cubes does not hurt your system. If you have sprayers for an aeroponic system they may clog them up, but in that case you're probably not using rockwool.

As a side note I can't figure out why Grodan bundles their rockwool cubes with paper. I'm buying an inert growing medium and they wrap it in mold food (paper). It doesn't come off. It just makes no sense.

 

[cannagirl]

superultramega, you are correct about the roots, but why have roots die off if its not necessary? Also the green algae that grows on the tops and sides of rockwool cubes, wont effect the plant but it does use up nutrients that your plants could be using instead. Also its more probable that you will burn your clones out if you start feeding from the first day you take them, I think thats what you meant, right? They dont even begin to use any nutrients that its not providing itself until it starts to root, which is between 5-7 days.

You can use Olivias or clonex cloning solution that gives them a tiny bit of nutes but also wont completely burn them out.

 

[superultramega]

It really is inconsequential that the ends of the roots die off. There are very few in the first place and they start right back up where they left off. I don't see the benefit from the plastic wrap on the cubes.

As far as the algae using up useful nutes it just isn't happening. While they are definitely using nutrients, the amounts are minuscule and that would only drop the concentration of the solution in the cubes a tiny fraction of what the plants themselves are doing. Continually adding water with nutrients as you do anyway solves this.
I've found it is very difficult to overfeed clones. I've used as high as 5mL/gal GH nutes with no problems whatsoever.
You need to keep in mind the scale of these problems. The scale of the nute usage by algae is so small to be inconsequential. The concentration of 2mL/gal is incredibly small. Your brand new clones have almost zero chance of nute burn at these concentrations.

 

[ArdabusRubber]

that's some helpful info! i'm watering them less, just so the rockwool is moist, and i'll water with nutes today.

i think i was so paranoid about the clones because i read so much about it, i made myself think it was incredibly hard and a very touchy system. but they are doing well, i just more wanted to make sure i was doing everything correctly, and it seems i am now, thanks to you guys.

i'm taking pics and i'll keep you updated with how everything is going. and i'm sure i'll have more questions along the way.... i've never grown hydro before, but i've spent the last six months schooling myself on it, and i've always been pretty good with growing so it shouldn't turn out that bad.

 

[Neo 420]

It really is inconsequential that the ends of the roots die off. There are very few in the first place and they start right back up where they left off. I don't see the benefit from the plastic wrap on the cubes.

As far as the algae using up useful nutes it just isn't happening. While they are definitely using nutrients, the amounts are minuscule and that would only drop the concentration of the solution in the cubes a tiny fraction of what the plants themselves are doing. Continually adding water with nutrients as you do anyway solves this.
I've found it is very difficult to overfeed clones. I've used as high as 5mL/gal GH nutes with no problems whatsoever.
You need to keep in mind the scale of these problems. The scale of the nute usage by algae is so small to be inconsequential. The concentration of 2mL/gal is incredibly small. Your brand new clones have almost zero chance of nute burn at these concentrations.

You make several good points but to minimize complications with a new grower I must agree with Canna. I personally never feed clones till they root and leaving the paper on the cubes tend to wane the algae which when out of hand can cause bad things (insects, loss of nutes etc..) The OP can of course follow whatever course he likes but remember when dealing with new growers, lets keep it simple for them. Less chance of them screwing it up.

 

[ArdabusRubber]

yeah i'm gonna keep it simple, just wanted to make sure i was on the right track.

but this is good info to have, i'll be down this road quite a lot

 

[Neo 420]

yeah i'm gonna keep it simple, just wanted to make sure i was on the right track.

but this is good info to have, i'll be down this road quite a lot

I'm sorry...Where is my manners??

Welcome to ICmag! I hope you enjoy your stay here!!

 

[superultramega]

You make several good points but to minimize complications with a new grower I must agree with Canna. I personally never feed clones till they root and leaving the paper on the cubes tend to wane the algae which when out of hand can cause bad things (insects, loss of nutes etc..) The OP can of course follow whatever course he likes but remember when dealing with new growers, lets keep it simple for them. Less chance of them screwing it up.

Simple is the way to go. No doubt about it.
I actually think it is simpler to just use a small amount of nutrients right off the bat. I see a lot of new growers waiting too long to feed their plants. The rockwool and water have almost no nutrients. I see a lot of pictures of underfed clones. I never see overfed clones. It seems easier this way to me. Use whatever works for you OP. They'll grow either way.


I use a wick system into rockwool cubes so my reservoir has nutes from day one. Using this I never water the cubes either. They wick enough water to keep the cubes at the right moisture level. I set them in a box under floros and I literally don't need to do anything with them for a couple weeks. I can't remember the last time I lost a clone.