start in big pot vs transplant

[stlsoldier531]

i have never noticed a differency in final outcome [ yield] i go from cups to the final container. the reason most use smaller containers is to have more crammed in. works well for seedlings.

Exactly Superman..I can understand why some of them do so many transplants. One reason I think is because if they are growing regular seeds and many plants it's good to know who all the males are before transplanting into the final pot.

But if growing feminized seeds and growing only one or two plants, I see no point in doing so many transplants...Marijuana is like every other living thing on earth. They like stability and consistency. Transplanting causes shock. because they are always being moved to a different environment...they can never become comfortable in one environment because it keeps changing.

It would be like growing up as a kid and having to change homes and schools on every single birthday until that kid is 16...lol...change is not always good for people...And it's also not always good for other living things either..

They say people have been growing pot for over 7000 years...lol..that's a long time...long before we had technology...and they still thrived and survived...Bottom line...KIS "KEEP IT SIMPLE"

 

[10k]

multiple transplants will give you denser root growth throughout all of the planting medium which equates to greater yield

whats grows above the ground relys on whats growing under the ground

Bullshit!!

Roots are gonna naturally seek the bottoms & sides of a container, just as they would go as deep & wide as possible in natural conditions. Transplanting allows the roots to have new areas to grow. I always see a nice growth spurt after transplanting also.

Bullshit!!

The reason I say it's bullshit is because if that information was true then plants would never be able to grow in the biggest pot known to man..THE EARTH..OUTSIDE..lol...

Don't be a dumbass stlsoldier531...
The comments you are saying bullshit to are about potted plants and the root systems contained therein.
Plants growing in nature have no such container constraints. You contradict yourself stlsoldier531 sheeesh

 

[10k]

Furthermore stlsoldier531 and also worth mentioning since this potting up topic is mostly a newb question...

... the thousands of newbies in infirmary threads all over the internet who over water their babies to the point of root disease in their giant 5 gal buckets because they're judging the need to water by the dryness of soil at the surface of their bigass buckets where the soil at the bottom of their container is dense, poorly draining and soaking wet.

The best approach for any new grower in soil is the potting up method for this reason and the two above reasons you are saying "bullshit" to.

my two cents.

 

[VerdantGreen]

good discussion. my take on it is this. plants didnt evolve to use the soil in a pot efficiently, so if you want to get the most out of them in limited space then you'll do better transplanting a few times. if your pots are really big and you can water them right then it's probably not so important, and in a big grow it may take too much time.

what weight of weed do you all get per gallon of soil used?

 

[cork144]

coming from experience, i HAVE found better growth from transplants

i have done a plant in the pot i finished it in, and it had alot slower growth (same clone btw) at one point i had thought it had stopped growing entirely,

i feel that its a waste to plant in your finishing pot, simply because as your watering the medium, the plant might not even have roots where your watering too, that could cause the soil to clump up and make it harder for the plant to get a good rootmass.

 

[stlsoldier531]

Don't be a dumbass stlsoldier531...

LOL..Look like I hit a nerve

The comments you are saying bullshit to are about potted plants and the root systems contained therein.

In conventional pots, yes you are right, roots have to work a bit different because they don't have an unlimited space like they do out in the environment. That's why there are Root pruning pots that cause the roots to become more dense, like they would in nature.

See if you knew anything or had half a brain in your head you would know that when roots are pruned off they send signals back to the tap root saying that they need more help in finding more nutrients and moisture. This causes the tap root to send out more roots. Meaning that the root system becomes more dense.

In a conventional pot when the first roots reach the side of the pot they are not pruned off. So they keep growing and wrap around the inside of the pot. This is a bad thing because after a while of wrapping continuously around the pot the bulk of the root mass becomes concentrated around the outside area of the inside of the pot. This means that most of the soil or medium in the central area is untouched and unused...that is why when you take the root mass out of a conventional pot you can clearly see that there are chunks of root mass at the bottom and sides of the pot.

This is why plants can starve when they become root bound, because they neglect 80% percent of the medium due to the wrapping around the inside of the pot..so continuous fertilization is needed in order to keep the plant fed properly. But what most growers are too blind to see, is that even though they are supplying nutrients via water, most of the nutrients are wasted anyway.

Because if you are pouring the water through the medium and most of the root mass is not in the center but along the sides, then only the bulk root mass that has concentrated along the sides and bottom receive the water and nutrients...but since water runs through the whole medium, including the center, most of it becomes a waste since some of the water that runs through the middle of the pot is passing through an area not concentrated by roots...

It's hard to explain unless you ave done this test yourself..obviously you have not..so you probably won't get what I'm saying.

So back to transplanting...the reason you guys believe in transplanting is because what you are trying to do is prevent the effect I mentioned above. In conventional pots, yes transplanting is needed. Because by starting plants in a small pot you build a small root mass, when transplanted that small root mass continues to grow again...this prevents them from wrapping as much because they grow out from an already small root mass created by the smaller pot. So basically what you are doing is preventing the effect of a few roots growing so long that they wrap around one bigger pot many times creating the root bound effect.

I understand the concept of transplanting, but with root pruning pots it doesn't matter because they will all be pruned off eventually anyway and cause the tap root to send out more roots to become a dense root system...so basically with old conventional pots transplanting is needed...but with better pot technology now available why would I spend more time transplanting when I can get the same effect starting with a larger pot..

The End result is the same as transplanting..A DENSE ROOT SYSTEM ..with half the work...

Plants growing in nature have no such container constraints. You contradict yourself stlsoldier531 sheeesh

Just because you are too close minded to see anything else outside of your own logic does not mean that I contradicted myself..lol..

 

[stlsoldier531]

Furthermore stlsoldier531 and also worth mentioning since this potting up topic is mostly a newb question...

... the thousands of newbies in infirmary threads all over the internet who over water their babies to the point of root disease in their giant 5 gal buckets because they're judging the need to water by the dryness of soil at the surface of their bigass buckets where the soil at the bottom of their container is dense, poorly draining and soaking wet.

The best approach for any new grower in soil is the potting up method for this reason and the two above reasons you are saying "bullshit" to.

my two cents.

I once tried to transplant a plant and damaged the roots by accident when I was new to growing..so transplanting is not for a Newbie...fuck that..that is again bullshit...

As far not judging when they need to be watered...it's common sense..when they begin to wilt...they need to be watered..lol...what is wrong with giving simple advice?? Why always the technical advice?? Can't anything ever be simple?? Or does it always have to be rocket science??

As far as the bottom being soaking wet and the top being dry...lol...that's why my advice would be to use Air Pots...the bottom is exposed to more air and dries out faster...in conventional pots the bottom is closed off from the air...aside from the few holes at the bottom...it is very difficult for water to evaporate...it would be like having a bucket of water in two different rooms...one of the rooms has 4 windows open and the other room has only 1 window partially open...in which room do you think the water would evaporate faster??

Come on 10K you are a smart guy..figure out the answer to that question and get back to me...

Air pots solve the problem and make growing easier...I only wish someone would have told me that in the beginning..but they didn't..I had only the advice of you old school closed minded growers who have never tried anything new...lol..GTFO

 

[stlsoldier531]

coming from experience, i HAVE found better growth from transplants

i have done a plant in the pot i finished it in, and it had alot slower growth (same clone btw) at one point i had thought it had stopped growing entirely,

i feel that its a waste to plant in your finishing pot, simply because as your watering the medium, the plant might not even have roots where your watering too, that could cause the soil to clump up and make it harder for the plant to get a good rootmass.

Maybe because you over watered the larger pots...roots don't say

"hey it's TOO much space, I don't want to grow in TOO much space. I think I want a smaller space and then I will let my roots grow out of control"

Roots grow in order to find water because they need water and oxygen (which is present in water) to process food...it's their way of going grocery shopping..lol..when they are over watered, of course they will not grow because they don't need to go looking for anything. So they stay smaller, and the plant stays smaller.

 

[liga]

this is talkers thread ...both methods are good(done properly)

 

[Happy Haole]

Cut open a rootball of one that had been transplanted multiple times next to one that wasn't. The difference is EASY to see. The transplanted one will have much,much more rootmass. The other will have roots thick near the edge of the container but will be nearly void of roots near the center. Try it. This isn't even in dispute.

 

[blazeoneup]

My 2 cents worth!

My 2 cents worth!

My opinion is this, Both methods work, Those who try to argue that one method is better then the other sound un-experienced to me.

If your experienced with growing as a whole you will know that both methods can and do work well, Its how you apply the methods that matter.

The reason why people get quick burst of growth with multiple transplants is because the plants first take off like a bad out of hell, Couple weeks later they have become root bound and growth rates slow down, Once repotted to a larger pot they get exellent growth rates again.

Repeat that over and over and naturally you will get growth spurts every time you transplant.

So what really happens? You get good growth at first, once the plant becomes rootbound you get slower growth, Transplant to a larger pot and bam another growth spurt.

This gives a lot of growers the false illusion that plants with multiple transplants grow faster when in reality, Plants which are not trapped and rootbound grow fast its really that simple.

Both methods work, and I can assure you if you transplant only once into the final container and you dont get great growth through-out the grow your simply not growing in proper soil or environment. Or you not timing the veg cycle correct according to your strain/veg and overall size of the pot.

So what is truely better? The best way IMHO from experience with all methods, Is to plant into a single pot large enough from the start to substain the strain used for the duration of the grow. Knowing your strain and veg cycle is everything.

Here is why, Plants without restrictions will grow at a rapid pace from the start to the end, Why is this better then multiple transplants? Well again with multiple transplants the idea is to start in smaller containers at first you get this quick spurt of growth once it slows and the plants become rootbound you transplant to the next pot again another growth spurt accurs.

The key to multiple transplants without getting multiple growth spurts is to transplant before the plants become rootbound this will prevent these growth spurts from being spurts, Which allows for steady fast growth rates without any downtime steady growth for the duration.

Same thing holds true for 1 single transplant, If you do one transplant and veg so long the plants become rootbound then you will get one huge growth spurt that slows to a halt near the end, Why because the plants roots have become bound.

So how do you do a single transplant and not have to worry about plants becoming rootbound? It's all about knowing your strain and how they develope.

The whole key to exellent growth from start to finish is to preventthis rootbound stage all together, One by either transplanting multiple times prior to the plants becoming rootbound.

Or make sure the final pot is large enough to substain the plants from the start to the finish without becoming rootbound. Veg cycle and genetics play a big role in knowing what size pot to use. The longer the veg cycle the more root mass will be produced the genetics is the other half of it. Choosing a pot correct in size for your strain and your veg cycle is key to success.

So in the end both methods work and work well, How you apply them is what matters the most!

 

[Disco94]

I always grow straight into 5 gallon pots from seed and love not having to transplant

 

[10k]

I'll stand behind my original statement which was regarding your "closed minded" post stlsoldier531.
It had nothing to do with air pruning pots. Read it again and maybe you'll see your own contradiction(s)

Instead of you trying to change your intent with new arguments, just take a good look at what you said and my comment about those words.
Don't call me closed minded by throwing in new variables.

multiple transplants will give you denser root growth throughout all of the planting medium which equates to greater yield

whats grows above the ground relys on whats growing under the ground

Bullshit!!

Roots are gonna naturally seek the bottoms & sides of a container, just as they would go as deep & wide as possible in natural conditions. Transplanting allows the roots to have new areas to grow. I always see a nice growth spurt after transplanting also.

Bullshit!!

The reason I say it's bullshit is because if that information was true then plants would never be able to grow in the biggest pot known to man..THE EARTH..OUTSIDE..lol...

Don't be a dumbass stlsoldier531...
The comments you are saying bullshit to are about potted plants and the root systems contained therein.
Plants growing in nature have no such container constraints. You contradict yourself stlsoldier531 sheeesh

 

[10k]

My opinion is this, Both methods work, Those who try to argue that one method is better then the other sound un-experienced to me.

If your experienced with growing as a whole you will know that both methods can and do work well, Its how you apply the methods that matter.

The reason why people get quick burst of growth with multiple transplants is because the plants first take off like a bad out of hell, Couple weeks later they have become root bound and growth rates slow down, Once repotted to a larger pot they get exellent growth rates again.

Repeat that over and over and naturally you will get growth spurts every time you transplant.

So what really happens? You get good growth at first, once the plant becomes rootbound you get slower growth, Transplant to a larger pot and bam another growth spurt.

This gives a lot of growers the false illusion that plants with multiple transplants grow faster when in reality, Plants which are not trapped and rootbound grow fast its really that simple.

Both methods work, and I can assure you if you transplant only once into the final container and you dont get great growth through-out the grow your simply not growing in proper soil or environment. Or you not timing the veg cycle correct according to your strain/veg and overall size of the pot.

So what is truely better? The best way IMHO from experience with all methods, Is to plant into a single pot large enough from the start to substain the strain used for the duration of the grow. Knowing your strain and veg cycle is everything.

Here is why, Plants without restrictions will grow at a rapid pace from the start to the end, Why is this better then multiple transplants? Well again with multiple transplants the idea is to start in smaller containers at first you get this quick spurt of growth once it slows and the plants become rootbound you transplant to the next pot again another growth spurt accurs.

The key to multiple transplants without getting multiple growth spurts is to transplant before the plants become rootbound this will prevent these growth spurts from being spurts, Which allows for steady fast growth rates without any downtime steady growth for the duration.

Same thing holds true for 1 single transplant, If you do one transplant and veg so long the plants become rootbound then you will get one huge growth spurt that slows to a halt near the end, Why because the plants roots have become bound.

So how do you do a single transplant and not have to worry about plants becoming rootbound? It's all about knowing your strain and how they develope.

The whole key to exellent growth from start to finish is to preventthis rootbound stage all together, One by either transplanting multiple times prior to the plants becoming rootbound.

Or make sure the final pot is large enough to substain the plants from the start to the finish without becoming rootbound. Veg cycle and genetics play a big role in knowing what size pot to use. The longer the veg cycle the more root mass will be produced the genetics is the other half of it. Choosing a pot correct in size for your strain and your veg cycle is key to success.

So in the end both methods work and work well, How you apply them is what matters the most!

well said blazeoneup

 

[redneck shogun]

Perhaps some people need to work on their transplanting skills. Just my

 

[stlsoldier531]

Cut open a rootball of one that had been transplanted multiple times next to one that wasn't. The difference is EASY to see. The transplanted one will have much,much more rootmass. The other will have roots thick near the edge of the container but will be nearly void of roots near the center. Try it. This isn't even in dispute.

An experiment done by someone on another forum...can you see the difference

A different picture, same grower....

This is why you need to transplant in a Non Root pruning pot..lol..(Uncle Ben's grow)

Another from uncle Ben...the only reason you can even see a piece of a root is because he scraped a little bit of soil away with his finger to illustrate how perfect the root mass is..lol..

Uncle Ben showing how dense the root mass is in a root pruning pot...show me a picture of transplanting that gives roots like this and I will shut up..lol..

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words my friend...well I just said 5000 words...so going back to my original method of growing....these were grown in 1 gallon pots..imagine 5 gallons..lol..and you get the idea...again..in the right pot..NO NEED TO TRANSPLANT...

 

[stlsoldier531]

My opinion is this, Both methods work, Those who try to argue that one method is better then the other sound un-experienced to me.

If your experienced with growing as a whole you will know that both methods can and do work well, Its how you apply the methods that matter.

The reason why people get quick burst of growth with multiple transplants is because the plants first take off like a bad out of hell, Couple weeks later they have become root bound and growth rates slow down, Once repotted to a larger pot they get exellent growth rates again.

Repeat that over and over and naturally you will get growth spurts every time you transplant.

So what really happens? You get good growth at first, once the plant becomes rootbound you get slower growth, Transplant to a larger pot and bam another growth spurt.

This gives a lot of growers the false illusion that plants with multiple transplants grow faster when in reality, Plants which are not trapped and rootbound grow fast its really that simple.

Both methods work, and I can assure you if you transplant only once into the final container and you dont get great growth through-out the grow your simply not growing in proper soil or environment. Or you not timing the veg cycle correct according to your strain/veg and overall size of the pot.

So what is truely better? The best way IMHO from experience with all methods, Is to plant into a single pot large enough from the start to substain the strain used for the duration of the grow. Knowing your strain and veg cycle is everything.

Here is why, Plants without restrictions will grow at a rapid pace from the start to the end, Why is this better then multiple transplants? Well again with multiple transplants the idea is to start in smaller containers at first you get this quick spurt of growth once it slows and the plants become rootbound you transplant to the next pot again another growth spurt accurs.

The key to multiple transplants without getting multiple growth spurts is to transplant before the plants become rootbound this will prevent these growth spurts from being spurts, Which allows for steady fast growth rates without any downtime steady growth for the duration.

Same thing holds true for 1 single transplant, If you do one transplant and veg so long the plants become rootbound then you will get one huge growth spurt that slows to a halt near the end, Why because the plants roots have become bound.

So how do you do a single transplant and not have to worry about plants becoming rootbound? It's all about knowing your strain and how they develope.

The whole key to exellent growth from start to finish is to preventthis rootbound stage all together, One by either transplanting multiple times prior to the plants becoming rootbound.

Or make sure the final pot is large enough to substain the plants from the start to the finish without becoming rootbound. Veg cycle and genetics play a big role in knowing what size pot to use. The longer the veg cycle the more root mass will be produced the genetics is the other half of it. Choosing a pot correct in size for your strain and your veg cycle is key to success.

So in the end both methods work and work well, How you apply them is what matters the most!

In traditional pots you are right my friend..however...I would never use those anymore...they suck..and lack results...like I said... ROOT PRUNING POTS...make all that Null and Void..lol...

One pot, and that's it...Transplanting takes more time...growing in one root pruning pot takes less time...which is better...LESS TIME if you ask me..

P.S. not every grower is looking for a new Hobby...some growers grow as a way to a means to an end...hope you get what I'm saying...peace

 

[blazeoneup]

In traditional pots you are right my friend..however...I would never use those anymore...they suck..and lack results...like I said... ROOT PRUNING POTS...make all that Null and Void..lol...

One pot, and that's it...Transplanting takes more time...growing in one root pruning pot takes less time...which is better...LESS TIME if you ask me..

P.S. not every grower is looking for a new Hobby...some growers grow as a way to a means to an end...hope you get what I'm saying...peace

I understand your point there, I posted what I posted on topic with the initial posters post, He was not asking about smart pots or air pots, Just about normal pots and what was best so I posted my humble experience on the topic, Multiple transplants or one big pot.

I have heard many good things about air pots and smart pots, Perhaps I should give them a try sometime.

 

[stlsoldier531]

I understand your point there, I posted what I posted on topic with the initial posters post, He was not asking about smart pots or air pots, Just about normal pots and what was best so I posted my humble experience on the topic, Multiple transplants or one big pot.

I have heard many good things about air pots and smart pots, Perhaps I should give them a try sometime.

Bro these things are great...

That's what I have been speaking about the whole time...But 10K has been so intent on bashing me and calling me names that he couldn't even pay attention and see that I was talking about ROOT PRUNING pots...not traditional pots...I even said in my other post that in traditional pots transplanting is necessary...

If I were going to give advice to a new grower, I would say go with a root pruning pot instead of the traditional transplanting method...

Most NEW growers don't know the correct way to transplant...Most NEW growers don't even know WHEN to transplant...It is always so funny when I see these new growers transplant a plant (especially autoflowers) too late and stunt the growth...and if they transplant to early then they won't get the intended result of transplanting anyways..lol..so timing is everything

And for a new grower looking to get a good yield on his first harvest without months or years of trial and error this would be the way to go..

But yeah bro I don't think I would ever use another traditional pot..

Besides hasn't anyone ever seen those GHS videos...they start those plants in 20 gallon containers and they get huge..lol.. and the plants are usually very small when they put them in those containers...

 

[10k]

"Bashing you and calling you names stlsoldier?" I commented on something you said which had nothing to do with air pots damn get over it dude.

Now onto the topic of root pruning "air pots"...
I remember that uncle ben thread quite well stlsoldier, as I had finally approved its entry as a growfaq contribution at og. He used a spray on copper hydroxide product called spin out made by griffin. As such, it's a chemical prune that takes place when using that product. Much debate over whether or not the copper oxide 'chemical pruning' would have any adverse effect on the plant or buds, but not much really ever came out of that debate.
Uncle Ben's results were very impressive running spin out to say the least.
Look here... https://www.icmag.com/modules/Tutorials/GrowthCont/1321.htm

That being said though, chemical pruning is an entirely different animal than air pruning, so yes, I'd love to see some photographed disections of non chemically pruned roots systems comparing smart pots / air pots to a conventionally potted up root systems.

any takers ?