What happened to these clones? 4weeks and still no show of sex, now dying!

[NeverGlidB4]

Hello all. As the title says, I took a couple of clones from the only plant I have to determine the sex.
The plant was grown from 10yr old seed and I have NO IDEA what the sex is!
This is the first time I have taken clones for sexing but I thought it sounded straightforward enough. the idea is that you put the clones directly to a 12hr cycle and they will show their sex as they put down minimal roots too. I wanted to try it so..
They are in a mix of peat based compost and sharp sand. Watered with tap water.

Something is wrong and I do not know what!
Here are the pics to show what has happened to them.
Gallery here or pics below: http://neverglidb4.imgur.com/clones
Both Clones, here the one on the left is looking really bad and only had a day or so left until it croaked.

At the beginning they were fine. they went a bit yellow but that is normal as far as my experience tells me. I always used to use some kind of booster mix like 'Greenup' on young clones when I grew a few years ago and I had an almost 100% success rate. Well this time it seems my percentage has dropped right down!!


The one that has now died is this one:

As you can see, the other is still living but looking pretty sickly itself too. Notice the tip has got some brownish colouring to it. It really is touch and go. If the brown gets worse then, like the other one, the tips will go grey or white and then die.

Just before the other one died I tried giving it a very weak solution of miracle Gro.
Bad idea.
It shrivelled and died faster so then it looked like a total nutrient overload!?

Any ideas on this would be appreciated!


NOTE: thought I should have said, these are cloned from a plant that I think is an old NLxDurban seed from sensi seeds about ten years ago! I used to grow and mix them, breeding and experimenting and this seed was from an old bag of them I had. It is most likely from growing that hybrid and crossing it with skunk#1 to produce seeds which were actually a really great smoke and very fit, bushy potent plants! So...best guess is NLxDurban or NLxDurban, crossed with Skunk#1.
Also, the clones were put to 12hr cycle from the first day. They have now been on this for over 4 weeks and still no show of sex. I am now giving up on this idea!

Oh and if any of you would like to have a quick look at my microGrow thread I would appreciate it. I need some of your brains over there so I can pick them!
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=154451

 

[bombadil.360]

hello man,

what I don't understand is why were you trying to sex those clones when they are obviously female?

did the cuttings had roots at all?

your medium looks saturated with water too.

if they had little roots, plus water saturation and over-feeding, then that is your answer.

I still don't get the part where you say you needed to sex them???

peace

 

[NeverGlidB4]

Hello there, thanks for replying
Come on man! Obviously I didn't know they were 'obviously' female or I would not have needed to clone them for sex right?
Thanks for the help though eh

 

[JamieShoes]

mate, did you actually "root" these ? in my very limited experiance a plant wont put out roots under 12/12 (it does when going from veg, but thats not whats happened here) and so I fear your cuttings never got properly started....

 

[High Country]

hello man,

what I don't understand is why were you trying to sex those clones when they are obviously female?

did the cuttings had roots at all?

your medium looks saturated with water too.

if they had little roots, plus water saturation and over-feeding, then that is your answer.

I still don't get the part where you say you needed to sex them???

peace

Agree, a mother plant is a female isn't it?

Unless of course you grow father plants.

 

[NeverGlidB4]

Hello there Jamieshoes..
It is a known method to force the sexing clones to flowering cycle from day one. They root as they show.
There is no foolproof way and, like I said in my post, I never did it this way before so I kind of agree and that is, I won't be doing it again. I prefer to make a healthy clone with healthy roots and then, if needed, make it flower to show sex.
I just wanted to try it out and see.
It was a big fat failure trying it the way I have been reading about so much..that is, putting the clones under flowering light cycle from day one.
It DOES work though and so many people swear by it so, it isn't for you and I to say it's crap
I can say one thing though, I am crap at it.
I'll stick to what I know from now on as far as cloning goes

 

[NeverGlidB4]

Agree, a mother plant is a female isn't it?

Unless of course you grow father plants.

Damn this is just silly...
I called it a mother plant.
OK that was a mistake,.
It was a plant I grew from 10 ior so year old seed which I go on about in the main thread about this grow.
I mean, how dumb would I have to be to take clones from a plant I KNEW was a female, to find out the sex of them?
I'm surprised I'm having to explain it but I suppose I made the mistake so now I want to just correct that.
The 'mother' was not known to be female or male. I should not have called it a 'mother'.
There. sorry!


Getting some real great help and advice though so keep it coming eh

 

[High Country]

Hey NeverGlidB4, can you give us a bit of a description of your cloning method. Looks a bit like nute burn does'nt it. I've done that before.

 

[NeverGlidB4]

bombadil.360 pretty much hit on it High Country.
I definitely overwatered and then, in the last few days I did the mistake of a weak Miracle Gro feed on one of them and that one quickly died.
I reckon the root system was so weak and immature, it was too easy to drown the things. Seems that's what I did.
the actual method of cloning is just average..as follows:
Try wash Nitrogen out of main plant for a week or so.
Take clones, diagonal cut etc, rooting hormone gel.
Put in a moist tent/cover and under 12hrs on/off lights.
Keep moist and watch closely.
that's the only method I ever used.
the only difference this time, compared to when I used to do a lot is the light time!
Actually no, there's a few differences lol. Like the last time was a room, this is a tiny little box. Although it's not really relevant because clones stay in their own mini climate anyway so...the size of the box or room outside of that don't matter eh. Heh. sorry a bit dazed here

 

[High Country]

One more thing . I put clones straight into a SOG at about 14 days straight on to 12/12. Prior to this they are on 18/6 under CFL's By 14 days they generally have roots and then flower them under 600W HPS.

Keep going though, there are many different ways to clone, dirt, coco, aeroponics, bubblers, jiffy pellets, dome, no dome, bottom heat, clonex, no clonex. One day you will just come across a way that works for you.

 

[High Country]

bombadil.360 pretty much hit on it High Country.
I definitely overwatered and then, in the last few days I did the mistake of a weak Miracle Gro feed on one of them and that one quickly died.
I reckon the root system was so weak and immature, it was too easy to drown the things. Seems that's what I did.
the actual method of cloning is just average..as follows:
Try wash Nitrogen out of main plant for a week or so.
Take clones, diagonal cut etc, rooting hormone gel.
Put in a moist tent/cover and under 12hrs on/off lights.
Keep moist and watch closely.
that's the only method I ever used.
the only difference this time, compared to when I used to do a lot is the light time!
Actually no, there's a few differences lol. Like the last time was a room, this is a tiny little box. Although it's not really relevant because clones stay in their own mini climate anyway so...the size of the box or room outside of that don't matter eh. Heh. sorry a bit dazed here

I noticed in those first few pics the clones had white female pistils coming out so may take longer to root and re-veg although I have no problems with clones at 2 weeks into flower.

Your cloning method isn't much different to me except for light cycle and a few other things. Here's how I do it. Not trying to take over your post or anything.

1. Healthy, well fed and hydrated mother plants(female).
2. Jiffy Pellets soaked
3. Cut clone below node, not to fussy about angle of cut.
4. Trim fan leaves of clone to reduce transpiration.
5. Dip in Clonex purple, for semi-hardwood cuttings.
6. Place Jiffy Pellets and clones in tray over thermostat controlled heat pad set at 24C or 75F.
7. Spray with tap water once.
8. Under 2 x 36W CFL on 18/6.
9. Cover with dome, all vents closed.
10. Open dome at 5 days and leave off.
11. At 7 days feed clones with a seaweed extract.
12. By 14 days you could have this.

38 CLONES ALL WITH ROOTS

LIKE THIS

 

[greenqueen13]

hi there. i am a fairly new grower but i am learning from my boyfriend who is pretty much an expert and so far i have had great luck with clones. He made a little hydroponic cloner out of a glad food storage container and a small aquarium water pump. when i take a clone i make a slant cut with an exacto knife. clip the tips of the leaves so the cut stem doesn't suck the moisture from them. Then, gently scrape the stem with the knife about 1/2 inch from the bottom. this helps the clone to absorb the cloning gel. then i soak it in a shot glass of water for about 10 minutes ( also to help absorption, otherwise clone gel may actually suffocate the cutting, or so i have heard ) i then place it in the homemade cloner and keep in a box with a simple compact flourescent bulb on an 18/6 light cycle. from what i understand the clone won't really grow roots if put under 12/12 right away. i generally see roots popping within 3-4 days and clones ready to plant in 7. I've not had one die on me yet (kow) and they stay very green and healthy. I also had a little trouble with sexing until i got a cheap $10 magnifying glass with a little light. you can usually see sex on about the 7th or 8th node and the glass really helps. If you still can't tell i read about a method where you leave the plant in veg but just cover one branch or growth tip with a little baggie that's been painted black for the extra 6 hours to simulate flowering. i have not tried this and i would probably forget and mess it all up..but it sounds brilliant!

 

[High Country]

hi there. i am a fairly new grower but i am learning from my boyfriend who is pretty much an expert and so far i have had great luck with clones. He made a little hydroponic cloner out of a glad food storage container and a small aquarium water pump. when i take a clone i make a slant cut with an exacto knife. clip the tips of the leaves so the cut stem doesn't suck the moisture from them. Then, gently scrape the stem with the knife about 1/2 inch from the bottom. this helps the clone to absorb the cloning gel. then i soak it in a shot glass of water for about 10 minutes ( also to help absorption, otherwise clone gel may actually suffocate the cutting, or so i have heard ) i then place it in the homemade cloner and keep in a box with a simple compact flourescent bulb on an 18/6 light cycle. from what i understand the clone won't really grow roots if put under 12/12 right away. i generally see roots popping within 3-4 days and clones ready to plant in 7. I've not had one die on me yet (kow) and they stay very green and healthy. I also had a little trouble with sexing until i got a cheap $10 magnifying glass with a little light. you can usually see sex on about the 7th or 8th node and the glass really helps. If you still can't tell i read about a method where you leave the plant in veg but just cover one branch or growth tip with a little baggie that's been painted black for the extra 6 hours to simulate flowering. i have not tried this and i would probably forget and mess it all up..but it sounds brilliant!

That should work too, lot's of different ways to clone.

 

[NeverGlidB4]

Thanks so much both of you for your valuable input!
This is what I want to see really, other experiences to compare. Although I grew a lot in the past it was in a full sized room (well in a caravan) and this growbox is so different so I need you people!
High Country that's great that you shared that with us, love the pics too
I know what you mean, there really is 1 million and one ways to clone. I used to ask everyone I met through hydroponic shops, read in grow bibles and Ed Rosenthal's books, ask friends etc and everyone tells you a different way!
So you do find a way yourself after all from everything learned. I used to always have a heatpad under the clones and I'm sure that was why I had such a great success rate too. This time I don't have that luxury and like I said, I tried this 'straight to 12hr cycle' forced sexing and as we can see...it's crap. For me at least. I can safely say the word here: FAIL.
One thing I have never tried is jiffy cubes so I am going to follow your method to the letter next time, just to try those little differences and see what the returns are.

Greenqueen13: Wow. I just LOVE that cloning system your boyfriend has created! When I grew before I was always a hydroponics grower after the first few grows in soil to learn how the plant grows and lives and breathes etc.
Then I got more and more into hydro and felt I was pretty competent. The yields were good!
I never thought of using the same ideas for cloning though, I bet it's brilliant!
Oh and I can confirm (as I'm sure this very forum can too!) that the method of flowering a branch does indeed work. It was almost like watching something magic take place when I fist tried it years ago. I covered a single branch with a modified piece of cardboard tube and a sock hehe
Every 12hours, it had to be timed and never missed. When it had flowered I knew it was female. Simple!
Then I got into producing seeds in the same/similar way. You have a female plant flowering and you already grabbed one of the early showing males ready for the dump, but did the flowering branch trick with it, when it flowered then the pollen was collected into a small bag.
Then that bag is in the freezer or used right away by putting it over a single branch on a flowering female!
The end result is that one branch of a female you really like can give you seeds without making the whole crop a seeding plant!
Nice!
This plant has some amazing qualities to it eh.
That's why I love it so.
Or is it the smoke?

 

[the_red_bull]

I just want to say that this is why I don't so much concern myself about marijuana legalization so long as I'm allowed to grow.

 

[NeverGlidB4]

I just want to say that this is why I don't so much concern myself about marijuana legalization so long as I'm allowed to grow.

I concern myself with legalisation, that is I am all for it but I don't actually DO anything about it. I'm pretty much busy being ill most of the time so that's partly my excuse and the rest would be laziness , lack of time, real life getting in the way of ideals...
Still, I have a feeling we are seeing the start of a big change worldwide...lots of countries will decriminalise or even legalise this next year, I can feel it.