The Organic Think Tank

[osirica420]

I've grown many crops both ways over many years... I'm not missing any points.
For the first dozen years of my life 80% of everything I ate was organically raised by my parents and I. I grew up farming organically. I grew cannabis organically in soil for years before making the switch to hydro. I could care less about theory, If a thing makes no discernible improvement it is unnecessary.

never with sea minerals or anything of the sort...lets just make that clear

There is no theory here just plain hard facts my friend...

I have and can bring studies to the table ALL DAY to prove facts about what i am saying...you simply can't. So who has the theory?

I am speaking simple facts...

here is a challenge for anyone up to it...

this challenge includes citing valid resources saying you will get more potent product with just 10-15 minerals vs all of what nature has to offer/sea mineral type solutions i am referring to!.. mr wags that includes you too : P

this guy aint superman or even that scientific for this particular matter, i am sorry no offense...


Scientific Method

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

 

[cannaboy]

A propper organic bud

Chemicaly grown

more Shwag

organic run to check yield taste ( notice the canna bottle in THE BIN!!!)

organic run to check yield taste

The best way to grow smoke and eat!! Organics...

 

[cannaboy]

cannaboy I appreciate your copy cuy paste efforts but dude were stoners here man and were not gonna rid all of that. I'm sure there is some good info for veggies in there but damn man can't ya edit it a bit to fit your point? I'll give ya some time to clean it up a bit to get your point across so I don't have to ok?

And to the man that said Grat3fulh3ad was missing something h

Dude seriously come on now that's like saying Elvis didn't now how to entertain or Megan Fox doesn't look good with no clothes you get the idea.

This is an open mined discussion STICKY thread. It will be here long after many of you are not. So let's not pollute it.


Have A Great Day
Mr.Wags

Yo dude ok give me a few hrs I need to sleep but I will,

ps can I get my post about monsanto back,,


Most of the info I posted needs reading tho so people know where they stand!!!

 

[RNDZL]

cannaboy I appreciate your copy cuy paste efforts but dude were stoners here man and were not gonna rid all of that. I'm sure there is some good info for veggies in there but damn man can't ya edit it a bit to fit your point? I'll give ya some time to clean it up a bit to get your point across so I don't have to ok?

And to the man that said Grat3fulh3ad was missing something h

Dude seriously come on now that's like saying Elvis didn't now how to entertain or Megan Fox doesn't look good with no clothes you get the idea.

This is an open mined discussion STICKY thread. It will be here long after many of you are not. So let's not pollute it.


Have A Great Day
Mr.Wags

wow

there is no human being that is so great that they, their logic or actions are beyond reproach and here lies the huge defect in the thought processes of ICMAG

I know very well the type of person h3ad is: I can tell you know he is precise, exacting, analytical and accurate

I am sure if he designs a clandestine hydro grow in a controlled environment and runs it HIMSELF he can get excellent guaranteed results.

Now take someone who isn't precise, exacting, analytical and accurate and put them in the same exact scenario and see how they perform

that environment promotes rapid growth but the environmental resistance in the plant from lack of beneficial certainly leads to catastrophic loss when the defenseless plants are exposed to disease and pests (its coincidence the most horrific infestations occur in environmentally controlled hydro grows?)


constant nutrient flow to a plant is the ensuring best results is not a myth, this IN THE PAST was most easily managed with synths

but now once we get past the micro.macro elements how can you exonerate the rest of the spectrum of plant physiological and biological relationships with its environment, that it has evolved into having, for the purpose of fighting environmental plagues?

we take the plant out of the environment, just like taking a persons immune system away

lock it up in a bubble, and when it gets sick, bombard it with un balanced and un natural remedies and think we have invented a better game

we need to widen our arsenal a bit, to include a wider spectrum of the biological diversity in our redesign and deployment of natural systems if we want them to endure, otherwise their existence relies soley on us

isnt this the fears of where the marijuana genome is headed, man reliant, maize like homogeneity?

 

[cannaboy]

wow

there is no human being that is so great that they, their logic or actions are beyond reproach and here lies the huge defect in the thought processes of ICMAG

I know very well the type of person h3ad is: I can tell you know he is precise, exacting, analytical and accurate

I am sure if he designs a clandestine hydro grow in a controlled environment and runs it HIMSELF he can get excellent guaranteed results.

Now take someone who isn't precise, exacting, analytical and accurate and put them in the same exact scenario and see how they perform

that environment promotes rapid growth but the environmental resistance in the plant from lack of beneficial certainly leads to catastrophic loss when the defenseless plants are exposed to disease and pests (its coincidence the most horrific infestations occur in environmentally controlled hydro grows?)


constant nutrient flow to a plant is the ensuring best results is not a myth, this IN THE PAST was most easily managed with synths

but now once we get past the micro.macro elements how can you exonerate the rest of the spectrum of plant physiological and biological relationships with its environment, that it has evolved into having, for the purpose of fighting environmental plagues?

we take the plant out of the environment, just like taking a persons immune system away

lock it up in a bubble, and when it gets sick, bombard it with un balanced and un natural remedies and think we have invented a better game

we need to widen our arsenal a bit, to include a wider spectrum of the biological diversity in our redesign and deployment of natural systems if we want them to endure, otherwise their existence relies soley on us

isnt this the fears of where the marijuana genome is headed, man reliant, maize like homogeneity?

All that said his head isn't that good I catch him out all the time and he comes back with a political answer and waits for somebody like yourself to defend him regardless H's missing something not to be a schoolgirl but thats the point the other guy
was making!!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

never with sea minerals or anything of the sort...lets just make that clear

There is no theory here just plain hard facts my friend...

I have and can bring studies to the table ALL DAY to prove facts about what i am saying...you simply can't. So who has the theory?

I am speaking simple facts...

here is a challenge for anyone up to it...

this challenge includes citing valid resources saying you will get more potent product with just 10-15 minerals vs all of what nature has to offer/sea mineral type solutions i am referring to!.. mr wags that includes you too : P

this guy aint superman or even that scientific for this particular matter, i am sorry no offense...


Scientific Method

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

I am just wondering how during it's evolution the plant came to be dependent on minerals only available from sea water...

I'll give it a shot one round... I've given a lot of different things a trial run, I'll do your claims the same courtesy... Not yet run across anything that 'wowed' me, but who's to say I won't ever.

And when you say I have used "nothing of the sort" you mis speak. I have used ancient seabed deposits of pyrophyllitic clay that are blended with fulvate ore... That has to be "something of the sort"

 

[grapeman]

I do not see organics as a religion as all religion is bollocks!!! I do see it as a life mission to overpower goverments and through them into dispare and to skint the taxman and the billionairs.. Money hungry sheep that do work for them,, Lets make them all go "Hmmmmm" we seem to need to go to work where did all the loot go!!



Yeah I got a super sheep to fly from here and Nuce you whole place dead!!!
This article has been nominated to be checked for its neutrality. Discussion of this nomination can be found on the talk page. (July 2009)


Organic vegetables at a farmers' market in ArgentinaOrganic foods are made in a way that limits or excludes the use of synthetic materials during production. For the vast majority of human history, agriculture can be described as organic; only during the 20th century was a large supply of new synthetic chemicals introduced to the food supply. This more recent style of production is referred to as "conventional." Under organic production, the use of conventional non-organic pesticides, insecticides and herbicides is greatly restricted and saved as a last resort. However, contrary to popular belief, certain non-organic fertilizers are still used[citation needed]. If livestock are involved, they must be reared without the routine use of antibiotics and without the use of growth hormones, and generally fed a healthy diet.[citation needed] In most countries, organic produce may not be genetically modified. It has been suggested that the application of nanotechnology to food and agriculture is a further technology that needs to be excluded from certified organic food.[1] The Soil Association (UK) has been the first organic certifier to implement a nano-exclusion.[2]

Organic food production is a heavily regulated industry, distinct from private gardening. Currently, the European Union, the United States, Canada, Japan and many other countries require producers to obtain special certification in order to market food as "organic" within their borders. Most certifications allow some chemicals and pesticides to be used[citation needed], so consumers should be aware of the standards for qualifying as "organic" in their respective locales.

Historically, organic farms have been relatively small family-run operations, which is why organic food was once only available in small stores or farmers' markets.[citation needed] However, since the early 1990s organic food production has had growth rates of around 20% a year, far ahead of the rest of the food industry, in both developed and developing nations. As of April 2008, organic food accounts for 1–2% of food sales worldwide.[citation needed]
In 1939, Lord Northbourne coined the term organic farming in his book Look to the Land (1940), out of his conception of "the farm as organism," to describe a holistic, ecologically-balanced approach to farming—in contrast to what he called chemical farming, which relied on "imported fertility" and "cannot be self-sufficient nor an organic whole."[3] This is different from the scientific use of the term "organic," to refer to a class of molecules that contain carbon, especially those involved in the chemistry of life.

Processed organic food usually contains only organic ingredients. If non-organic ingredients are present, at least a certain percentage of the food's total plant and animal ingredients must be organic (95% in the United States[4], Canada,and Australia) and any non-organically produced ingredients are subject to various agricultural requirements. Foods claiming to be organic must be free of artificial food additives, and are often processed with fewer artificial methods, materials and conditions, such as chemical ripening, food irradiation, and genetically modified ingredients. Pesticides are allowed so long as they are not synthetic.

Early consumers interested in organic food would look for non-chemically treated, fresh or minimally processed food. They mostly had to buy directly from growers: "Know your farmer, know your food" was the motto. Personal definitions of what constituted "organic" were developed through firsthand experience: by talking to farmers, seeing farm conditions, and farming activities. Small farms grew vegetables (and raised livestock) using organic farming practices, with or without certification, and the individual consumer monitored. As demand for organic foods continued to increase, high volume sales through mass outlets such as supermarkets rapidly replaced the direct farmer connection. Today there is no limit to organic farm sizes and many large corporate farms currently have an organic division. However, for supermarket consumers, food production is not easily observable, and product labeling, like "certified organic", is relied on. Government regulations and third-party inspectors are looked to for assurance. A "certified organic" label is usually the only way for consumers to know that a processed product is "organic".

The USDA does not inspect organic farmers. [5] Of the 30 third party inspectors 15 of them have been placed under probation after an audit. On April 20th, 2010, the Department of Agriculture said that it would begin enforcing rules requiring the spot testing of organically grown foods for traces of pesticides, after an auditor exposed major gaps in federal oversight of the organic food industry.[6]




[edit] Legal definition

The National Organic Program (run by the USDA) is in charge of the legal definition of organic in the United States and does organic certification.Main article: Organic certification
See also: List of countries with organic agriculture regulation
To be certified organic, products must be grown and manufactured in a manner that adheres to standards set by the country they are sold in:

Australia: Australian Organic Standard and NASAA Organic Standard
Canada: Canada Gazette, Government of Canada
European Union: EU-Eco-regulation
Sweden: KRAV
United Kingdom: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA)
Norway: Debio Organic certification
India: NPOP, (National Program for Organic Production)
Japan: JAS Standards.
United States: National Organic Program (NOP) Standards
[edit] Environmental impact
Several surveys and studies have attempted to examine and compare conventional and organic systems of farming. The general consensus across these surveys[7][8] is that organic farming is less damaging for the following reasons:

Organic farms do not consume or release synthetic pesticides into the environment—some of which have the potential to harm soil, water and local terrestrial and aquatic wildlife.
Organic farms are better than conventional farms at sustaining diverse ecosystems, i.e., populations of plants and insects, as well as animals.
When calculated either per unit area or per unit of yield, organic farms use less energy and produce less waste, e.g., waste such as packaging materials for chemicals.
However, some critics of organic farming methods believe that organic farms require more land to produce the same amount of food as conventional farms (see 'Yield' section, below). They argue that if this is true, organic farms could potentially destroy the rainforests and wipe out many ecosystems.[9][10]

A 2003 investigation by the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs in the UK found, similar to other reports, that organic farming "can produce positive environmental benefits", but that some of the benefits were decreased or lost when comparisons are made on "the basis of unit production rather than area".[11]

[edit] Yield
One study found a 20% smaller yield from organic farms using 50% less fertilizer and 97% less pesticide.[12] Studies comparing yields have had mixed results.[13] Supporters claim that organically managed soil has a higher quality[14] and higher water retention. This may help increase yields for organic farms in drought years.

One study from the Danish Environmental Protection Agency found that, area-for-area, organic farms of potatoes, sugar beet and seed grass produce as little as half the output of conventional farming.[15] Findings like these, and the dependence of organic food on manure from low-yield cattle, has prompted criticism from scientists that organic farming is environmentally unsound and incapable of feeding the world population.[9] Among these critics are Norman Borlaug, father of the "green revolution," and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, who asserts that organic farming practices can at most feed 4 billion people, after expanding cropland dramatically and destroying ecosystems in the process.[10] Michael Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma, responds to this by pointing out that the average yield of world agriculture is substantially lower than modern sustainable farming yields. Bringing average world yields up to modern organic levels could increase the worlds food supply by 50 % [16].

A 2007 study [17] compiling research from 293 different comparisons into a single study to assess the overall efficiency of the two agricultural systems has concluded that

...organic methods could produce enough food on a global per capita basis to sustain the current human population, and potentially an even larger population, without increasing the agricultural land base. (from the abstract)

The researchers also found that while in developed countries, organic systems on average produce 92% of the yield produced by conventional agriculture, organic systems produce 80% more than conventional farms in developing countries, because the materials needed for organic farming are more accessible than synthetic farming materials to farmers in some poor countries. On the other hand, communities that lack sufficient manure to replenish soils would struggle with organic farming, and the soil would degrade rapidly[18] .

[edit] Energy efficiency
A study of the sustainability of apple production systems showed that in comparing a conventional farming system to an organic method of farming, the organic system is more energy efficient.[19] However, this is debatable due to organic farming's large use of tillage for weed control. Also increased fuel use from incorporating less nutrient dense fertilizers results in higher fuel consumption rates. The general analysis is that organic production methods are usually more energy efficient because they do not use chemically synthesized nitrogen. But they generally consume more petroleum because of the lack of other options for weed control and more intensive soil management practices.[citation needed]
"We can grow DOPE BIO FUEL AND SMOKE ALL DAY!"
Energy efficiency is hard to determine; in the case listed above the author cites a book written in 1976. The true value of efficiency and energy consumption in relation to organic farms has yet to be determined.

[edit] Pesticides and farmers
There are studies detailing the effects and side effects of pesticides upon the health of farm workers.[20] Even when pesticides are used correctly, they still end up in the air and bodies of farm workers. Through these studies, organophosphate pesticides have become associated with acute health problems such as abdominal pain, dizziness, headaches, nausea, vomiting, as well as skin and eye problems.[21] In addition, there have been many other studies that have found pesticide exposure is associated with more severe health problems such as respiratory problems, memory disorders, dermatologic conditions,[22][23] cancer,[24] depression, neurologic deficits,[25][26] miscarriages, and birth defects.[27] Summaries of peer-reviewed research have examined the link between pesticide exposure and neurological outcomes and cancer in organophosphate-exposed workers.[28][29]

Imported fruits and vegetables from South America are more likely to contain high level of pesticides,[30] even pesticides banned for use in the United States.[31] Migratory birds, such as Swainson's hawks, have wintering grounds in Argentina where thousands of them were found dead from monocrotophos insecticide poisoning.[citation needed]

[edit] Pesticide residue
A study published in 2002 showed that "Organically grown foods consistently had about one-third as many residues as conventionally grown foods."[32][33]

Monitoring of pesticide residues in the United States is carried out by the Pesticide Data Program (part of USDA, which was created in 1990. It has since tested over 60 different types of food for over 400 different types of pesticides – with samples collected close to the point of consumption. Their most recent results found in 2005 that:

“ These data indicate that 29.5 percent of all samples tested contained no detectable pesticides [parent compound and metabolite(s) combined], 30 percent contained 1 pesticide, and slightly over 40 percent contained more than 1 pesticide. ”
—USDA, Pesticide Data Program[34]


Several studies corroborate this finding by having found that 25 percent of organic food carries synthetic pesticide residues, in comparison to 77 percent of conventional food.[35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44]

A study published by the National Research Council in 1993 determined that for infants and children, the major source of exposure to pesticides is through diet.[45] A recent study in 2006 measured the levels of organophosphorus pesticide exposure in 23 schoolchildren before and after replacing their diet with organic food. In this study it was found that levels of organophosphorus pesticide exposure dropped dramatically and immediately when the children switched to an organic diet.[46] Food residue limits established by law are set specifically with children in mind and consider a child's lifetime ingestion of each pesticide.[47]

There are controversial data on the health implications of certain pesticides. For example, the herbicide Atrazine has been shown in some experiments to be a teratogen, causing demasculinization in male frogs exposed to small concentrations. Under the effects of Atrazine, male frogs were found to have greatly increased occurrences of either malformed gonads, or testicular gonads which contain non-degenerate eggs.[48] Effects were however significantly reduced in high concentrations, as is consistent with other teratogens affecting the endocrine system, such as estradiol.

Organic farming standards do not allow the use of synthetic pesticides, but they do allow the use of specific pesticides derived from plants. The most common organic pesticides, accepted for restricted use by most organic standards, include Bt, pyrethrum, and rotenone. Rotenone has high toxicity to fish and aquatic creatures, causes Parkinson's disease if injected into rats, and shows other toxicity to mammals.[49]

The United States Environmental Protection Agency and state agencies periodically review the licensing of suspect pesticides, but the process of de-listing is slow. One example of this slow process is exemplified by the pesticide Dichlorvos, or DDVP, which as recently as the year 2006 the EPA proposed its continued sale. The EPA has almost banned this pesticide on several occasions since the 1970s, but it never did so despite considerable evidence that suggests DDVP is not only carcinogenic but dangerous to the human nervous system—especially in children.[50] The EPA "has determined that risks do not exceed levels of concern"[51], a study of longterm exposure to DDVP in rats showed no toxic effects.[52]

[edit] Nutritional value and taste
In April 2009, results from Quality Low Input Food (QLIF), a 5-year integrated study funded by the European Commission,[53] confirmed that "the quality of crops and livestock products from organic and conventional farming systems differs considerably."[54] Specifically, results from a QLIF project studying the effects of organic and low-input farming on crop and livestock nutritional quality "showed that organic food production methods resulted in: (a) higher levels of nutritionally desirable compounds (e.g., vitamins/antioxidants and poly-unsaturated fatty acids such as omega-3 and CLA); (b) lower levels of nutritionally undesirable compounds such as heavy metals, mycotoxins, pesticide residues and glyco-alkaloids in a range of crops and/or milk; (c) a lower risk of faecal Salmonella shedding in pigs."[55] The QLIF study also concludes that "further and more detailed studies are required to provide proof for positive health impacts of organic diets on human and animal health."[56] Alternatively, according to the UK's Food Standards Agency, "Consumers may choose to buy organic fruit, vegetables and meat because they believe them to be more nutritious than other food. However, the balance of current scientific evidence does not support this view."[57] A 12-month systematic review commissioned by the FSA in 2009 and conducted at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine based on 50 year's worth of collected evidence concluded that "there is no good evidence that consumption of organic food is beneficial to health in relation to nutrient content."[58] Other studies have found no proof that organic food offers greater nutritional values, more consumer safety or any distinguishable difference in taste.[59][60][61][62]

Regarding taste, a 2001 study concluded that organic apples were sweeter by blind taste test. Firmness of the apples was also rated higher than those grown conventionally.[63] Limited use of food preservatives may cause faster spoilage of organic foods. Such foods in the stores, on the other hand, are guaranteed of not having been stored for extended amounts of time, still being high in decaying nutrients that food preservatives fail to preserve. Organic food may also potentially have higher amounts of natural biotoxins, like solanine in potatoes[64], as to compensate for the lack of externally applied fungicides and herbicides etc. However, in current studies, there have been no indications of difference in amounts of natural biotoxins between organic and conventional foods.[64]

[edit] Cost
Organic products typically cost 10 to 40% more than similar conventionally produced products.[65] According to the USDA, Americans, on average, spent $1,347 on groceries in 2004[66]; thus switching entirely to organics would raise their cost of groceries $538.80 per year ($44.90/month) and switching to half organics would raise costs by $269.40 ($22.45/month). Processed organic foods vary in price when compared to their conventional counterparts. An Australian study by Choice magazine in 2004 found processed organic foods in supermarkets to be 65% more expensive, but noted this was not consistent. Prices may be higher because organic produce is produced on a smaller scale, and may need to be milled or processed separately. Furthermore, there is an increase in shipping costs from more centralized production in otherwise regional markets. In the case of dairy and eggs, the animal's requirements such as the number of animals that can be raised per acre, or the breed of animal and its feed conversion ratio affects the costs.

[edit] Related movements
Biodynamic agriculture, a method of organic farming, is closely related to the organic food movement.

[edit] Facts and statistics
Organic Seals

International

United States

France

Australia
While organic food accounts for 1–2% of total food sales worldwide, the organic food market is growing rapidly, far ahead of the rest of the food industry, in both developed and developing nations.

World organic food sales jumped from US $23 billion in 2002[67] to $52 billion in 2008.[68]
The world organic market has been growing by 20% a year since the early 1990s, with future growth estimates ranging from 10%–50% annually depending on the country.
[edit] North America
United States:
Organic food is the fastest growing sector of the American food marketplace[69] .
Organic food sales have grown by 17 to 20 percent a year for the past few years[70] while sales of conventional food have grown at only about 2 to 3 percent a year.[71]
In 2003 organic products were available in nearly 20,000 natural food stores and 73% of conventional grocery stores.[72]
Organic products account for 2.6% of total food sales in the year 2005.[73]
Two thirds of organic milk and cream and half of organic cheese and yogurt are sold through conventional supermarkets.[74]
Canada:
Organic food sales surpassed $1 billion in 2006, accounting for 0.9% of food sales in Canada.[75]
Organic food sales by grocery stores were 28% higher in 2006 than in 2005.[75]
British Columbians account for 13% of the Canadian population, but purchased 26% of the organic food sold in Canada in 2006.[76]
[edit] Europe
In the European Union (EU25) 3.9% of the total utilized agricultural area is used for organic production. The countries with the highest proportion of organic land are Austria (11%) and Italy (8.4), followed by Czech Republic and Greece (both 7.2%). The lowest figures are shown for Malta (0.1%), Poland (0.6%) and Ireland (0.8%)[77]

Austria:
11.6% of all farmers produced organically in 2007.[78] The government has created incentives to increase the figure to 20% by 2010.[79]
4.9% of all food products sold in Austrian supermarkets (including discount stores) in 2006 were organic.[80] 8000 different organic products were available in the same year.[81]
Italy:
Since 2005 all school lunches must be organic by law.[82]
Poland:
In 2005 168,000 ha of land were under organic management. 7 percent of Polish consumers buy food that was produced according to the EU-Eco-regulation. The value of the organic market is estimated at 50 million Euros (2006).[83]
UK:
Organic food sales increased from just over £100 million in 1993/94 to £1.21 billion in 2004 (an 11% increase on 2003).[84]
[edit] Caribbean
Cuba:
After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1990, agricultural inputs that had previously been purchased from Eastern bloc countries were no longer available in Cuba, and many Cuban farms converted to organic methods out of necessity.[85] Consequently, organic agriculture is a mainstream practice in Cuba, while it remains an alternative practice in most other countries. Although some products called organic in Cuba would not satisfy certification requirements in other countries (crops may be genetically modified, for example[86][87]), Cuba exports organic citrus and citrus juices to EU markets that meet EU organic standards. Cuba's forced conversion to organic methods may position the country to be a global supplier of organic products.[88]
[edit] Organics Olympiad
Organics Olympiad 2007 awarded gold, silver and bronze medals to countries based on twelve measures of organic leadership.[89]. The gold medal winners were:
Australia with 11.8 million organic hectares.
Mexico with 83,174 organic farms.
Romania with 15.9 million certified wild organic hectares.
China with 135 thousand tonnes of organic wild harvest produce.
Denmark with 1805 organic research publications recorded.
Germany with 69 members of IFOAM.
China with an increase of 1,998,705 organic hectares.
Liechtenstein with 27.9% of its agricultural land certified organic.
Mali with an 8488% annual increase in its organic hectares.
Latvia with an annual 3.01% increase in its organic share of agricultural land.
Liechtenstein with a 10.9% 4-yearly increment of the organic share of its total agriculture.
Switzerland with a per capita annual spend on organic produce of 103 Euros.
[edit] See also
Australian Organic Farming and Gardening Society
China Green Food Development Center
Community-supported agriculture
Ecolabel
Genetically modified food
Kosher foods
Natural foods
Organic clothing
Organic farming
Organic Farming Digest
Risk Management Agency
Seasonal food
Sustainable agriculture
Sustainable food system
Sustainable living
The Future of Food (a documentary film about genetically modified food with a segment on organic food)
Whole foods

WTF !!! do you just cut and paste bullshit you find on wiki? since you don't know the organic farming industry you wouldn't know that half of what you cut and paste is either outdated or bullshit.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Someone Say HOLY WAR !!!!

I warn you all now "I" am the keeper of the HOLY HAND GRENADE!!!

First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

 

[RNDZL]

All that said his head isn't that good I catch him out all the time and he comes back with a political answer and waits for somebody like yourself to defend him regardless H's missing something not to be a schoolgirl but thats the point the other guy
was making!!

idk imho you'd be hard pressed to find a better breeder.

In fact the very fact that he chooses controlled environments with simple regimes is a reflection of the focus he has on the practice of breeding

If we liken plant health to human health the whole organism is so complex that its biological functions, life cycles and varying anatomy are all worthy of their own "specialists"

Its why its so paramount we put aside anything but constructive and beneficial criticism

if we act as a collective all of our relative experiences can be used to really adjust the learning curve

 

[Guest 88950]

... Exactly which component of Gen Hydro's flora series comes from oil?


(I already know the answer)

me too........the bottle

 

[mullray]

Nice thread. I'm going to play devils advocate here a bit but before I start let me state that I am a fan of organics, bio agriculture and synthetics when used ethically in all cases .

First off I'd love someone to tell me how synthetic fertilizers are the related to the petrochemical industry. It sounds impressive (fear mongering) but after years in fertilizer research I'm seriously confused as to how the petrochemical industry has anything to do with fertilizer production. Maybe I've missed something. Would someone please post some credible links (research based with references) that may open my mind up. Oh and by the way turpenoids (which are by products of the petrochemical industry) are OMRI rated. Products such as Stylet oil (anti fungal and pesticide) are OMRI rated (personally I wouldn't use them; as organic or not, based on the molecular structure of turpenoids I believe they are toxins and believe science will one day come to the same conclusion).

A while ago I saw a thread here about how to sweeten cannabis. The answer it seemed was to use bat guano at the end of the grow. BTW - Guano is high in phosphorous (P) - which BTW Advanced Nutrients tells us that P causes us to cough a lung up if left residual in the plant after harvest (who are we to believe - does phosphorous create a sweet tasting bud or a bud that makes us cough a lung up?) . The author of the piece made a point that syntehtics were full of heavy metals. I laughed my arse off! Here's some examples of Bat guano. Loaded full of heavy metals.

Note:

The absorption of cadmium in the lungs is 10-50%, while the absorption in the gastrointestinal tract is only a few percent. Smokers have about 4-5 times higher blood cadmium concentrations (about 1.5 micrograms/l), and twice as high kidney cadmium concentrations as nonsmokers.

BAT GUANO 0-7-0

Arsenic 11.7000
Cadmium 7.6000mg/kg
Cobalt 12.6000
Lead 1.2000
Mercury 0.0500

GUANO NATURAL ORGANIC PHOSPHATE FERTILIZER 0-7-0

Arsenic 13.3000
Cadmium 10.0000mg/kg
Lead 1.2000
Selenium 5.5000
Mercury 0.0500

Best case scenario....

Bat Guano

TYPICAL ANALYSIS

Civa mg/kg 4, 8
Lead mg/kg 39, 6
Chromium mg/kg 29, 1
Zinc mg/kg 255, 1
Nickel mg/kg 26, 2
Cadmium mg/kg 3
Copper mg/kg 979, 8
Total phosphorus g/kg 5
Total nitrogen % 8, 1
Total organic Matter % 64, 7
Salinity % 0, 35
Electrical conductivity mS/cm 13, 8
Humidity % 8, 7
pH - 2, 09

OK - so let's now look at a couple of those nasty petrochemical fertilizers. We'll use P containing fertilizers to compare it to guano which is used as a source of P in organics.

Monopotassium Phosphate (MKP 0- 52- 34)

Main content, min 99.0 %
P2O5 ≥51.3 %
K2O ≥34.0%
Water insoluble, max 0.1 %
Moisture, max 0.2%
PH 4.4-4.8
As ≤0.0025%
Heavy metal (Pb) ≤0.0003%
Hg None
Cd ≤0.0002% (2mg/kg or 2ppm/kg)
Cr ≤0.0002%
F ≤0.002%
CL ≤0.01%

Monoammonium Phosphate (MAP 12- 61- 0)

Main content, min 99.0 %
P2O5 ≥61.0 %
N, ≥12.0%
Water insoluble, ≤0.1 %
Moisture, ≤0.2%
PH 4.4-4.8
As ≤0.0025%
Heavy metal (Pb) ≤0.0003%
Hg None
Cd ≤0.0002% (2mg/kg or 2ppm/kg)
Cr ≤0.0002%
F ≤0.002%
CL ≤0.01%

let me now throw in some organic rating standards. Let's begin with New Zealand which is perhaps the least polluted country in the world.

New Zealand Organic Regulations

Heavy metals in manures and composts must not exceed,

Metal mg/kg
Zinc 1000
Copper 400
Nickel 100
Cadmium 10
Lead 250
Mercury 2

European and US organic rating standards for composts...

Heavy Metal Limits for Organic Composts (European standards)

Cd 0.7
Cr 70
Hg 0.4
Ni 25
Pb 45

(Ref 3.)

US Standard (Organic Composts)

Cd 4
Cr 100
Hg 0.5
Ni 50
Pb 150

Anyone here interested in science/chemistry???

 

[EatMoGrass]

Have I been poisoning myself growing in living organic soil all these years?

You guy are right. I should immediately stop trying to source local organic, non factory farmed soil amendments. I'll throw out my worm compost while I'm at it.

I know this is the hydro forum but others here seem to be knocking soil as well as organics.

Hydro may be great for many, but gardening in living organic soil is what I enjoy. Digging in the soil is therapy for me.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

All that said his head isn't that good I catch him out all the time and he comes back with a political answer and waits for somebody like yourself to defend him regardless H's missing something not to be a schoolgirl but thats the point the other guy
was making!!

you've never once 'caught me' anywhere... nor have I been political.
you seem to have very much to learn.

 

[osirica420]

I am just wondering how during it's evolution the plant came to be dependent on minerals only available from sea water...

I'll give it a shot one round... I've given a lot of different things a trial run, I'll do your claims the same courtesy... Not yet run across anything that 'wowed' me, but who's to say I won't ever.

And when you say I have used "nothing of the sort" you mis speak. I have used ancient seabed deposits of pyrophyllitic clay that are blended with fulvate ore... That has to be "something of the sort"

i will leave this up to you to see for yourself...

with or without naci more importantly with naci
sea minerals combined with your chem mineral grows are going to show undeniable improvements in potency and taste 100%..

sea water has a natural saturation level of certain minerals so not one mineral can be too much and this same ratio of minerlas found in chlorophyll.. other minerals attach themselves to naci and is used as a carrying system
So if i were to get a bunch of soluble minerals and dilute in water the water will drop certain elements out while keeping certain ratios of others.. the water is intelligent
this is the key to the minerals within sea water...
so in theory you can create a water so dense in all the minerals in a certain ratio that is found in nature, that just so happens to be the same mineral ratios as in chlorophyll and blood mmmm..
i found that quite strange and definitely not a coincidence....

some people make salt "sole"... which is a term for mixing ionic element in water to that of similar ratios of the ocean

sea minerals are in a ionic form so the plant can absorb it as is
easiler then anything chelated that is for sure..


It will yield nearly the same maybe a bit more if done correctly..

But besides that i would rather have more quality then quantity...


I suggest Sea Crop, SeaAgri, or the best sea mineral product on the market Thalassa Mix!

Thalassa-Mix was born from the life work of Dr. Maynard Murray, medical doctor, researcher and author of the book Sea Energy Agriculture. The gift of the seas, (Thalassa – the Greek name for the sea), both primal and present day, are combined with the ground-breaking and forward-looking work of Rudolph Steiner and Viktor Schauberger. Steiner’s gift of the biodynamic Earth healing remedies, and Schauberger’s insightful understanding of the energetic flow patterns of water, have been combined to enhance a blend of pure, deep sea water and the Original Himalayan Crystal Salt™. The result is a synergistic, biodynamically charged and enhanced sea mineral concentrate that supplies all naturally occurring elements (up to 92 of them) in a buffered ionic solution ready for plant uptake. Use Thalassa-mix to enhance soil biology, to balance mineral nutrients and to stimulate the soil’s energetic processes.

 

[EatMoGrass]

Minerals are washed from the earth to the sea during heavy rains and flooding.
Kelp and oyster shells are two things I will always have to pay for here in the Midwest.

 

[og dmc]

Ding Ding Ding: LETS GET READT TO RUMBLLLLE.

 

[mrwags]

Ding Ding Ding: LETS GET READT TO RUMBLLLLE.

No fight here og sorry . This thread has taken flight hence the sticky. It imo has been very intuitive so far and I for one will see to it that it stays that way.

Nite Tiger deserves full props for starting it but I would like the members (like always in this forum)to mod it. I went through today and deleted some of the post I saw that had 3 or more negative votes and 0 positive. Sorry cannaboy but like I said were stoners and were not gonna read all of that stuff about veggie tests sorry. Yes I'm sure there are some good information in it so post that stuff instead of everything else.

Oh and I veg in soil and then grow out in hydro buckets. I like to think the soil might give a bit of her soul back b4 I blow her up in a bucket of love


Have A Great Day
Mr.Wags

 

[EatMoGrass]

How is soil supposed to give your young plants their soul back when its full of heavy metals and other impurities?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

soul?

 

[Lazyman]

i will leave this up to you to see for yourself...

with or without naci more importantly with naci
sea minerals combined with your chem mineral grows are going to show undeniable improvements in potency and taste 100%..

sea water has a natural saturation level of certain minerals so not one mineral can be too much and this same ratio of minerlas found in chlorophyll.. other minerals attach themselves to naci and is used as a carrying system
So if i were to get a bunch of soluble minerals and dilute in water the water will drop certain elements out while keeping certain ratios of others.. the water is intelligent
this is the key to the minerals within sea water...
so in theory you can create a water so dense in all the minerals in a certain ratio that is found in nature, that just so happens to be the same mineral ratios as in chlorophyll and blood mmmm..
i found that quite strange and definitely not a coincidence....

some people make salt "sole"... which is a term for mixing ionic element in water to that of similar ratios of the ocean

sea minerals are in a ionic form so the plant can absorb it as is
easiler then anything chelated that is for sure..


It will yield nearly the same maybe a bit more if done correctly..

But besides that i would rather have more quality then quantity...


I suggest Sea Crop, SeaAgri, or the best sea mineral product on the market Thalassa Mix!

Thalassa-Mix was born from the life work of Dr. Maynard Murray, medical doctor, researcher and author of the book Sea Energy Agriculture. The gift of the seas, (Thalassa – the Greek name for the sea), both primal and present day, are combined with the ground-breaking and forward-looking work of Rudolph Steiner and Viktor Schauberger. Steiner’s gift of the biodynamic Earth healing remedies, and Schauberger’s insightful understanding of the energetic flow patterns of water, have been combined to enhance a blend of pure, deep sea water and the Original Himalayan Crystal Salt™. The result is a synergistic, biodynamically charged and enhanced sea mineral concentrate that supplies all naturally occurring elements (up to 92 of them) in a buffered ionic solution ready for plant uptake. Use Thalassa-mix to enhance soil biology, to balance mineral nutrients and to stimulate the soil’s energetic processes.

\
I doubt there's much in his experiments that couldn't be added to ANY grow with a tablespoon of Superthrive, but if his biodynamically charged and enhanced solution is so good, let's see some side by side results and yield comparisons.

In my experience, anyone that mentions the word energy, life-force, magnetic, or healing in their literature is full of hooey and trying to sell you something. Usually tap water passed off as something magical. Such as RealWater. Ha!