Organic Pro-Mix Questions

[O RLY?]

To give you some background, I have grown a bunch of times over the past 3 to 5 years and I plan on growing again probably within the next month or two. I usually only grow for about six months or until I hit my goal and then I quit. I usually grow out a bunch of seeds and then clone all my females to speed things up a bit. In the past I have grown with Miracle Grow soil but I am tired of the crappy results and figured I should try something better. I have a friend that uses Pro-Mix Bx and it comes in 3.8 cu ft bales and he gave me the mixture that he uses. So I figured I would go the organic route and try to find some of the same thing. I drove around my small town and went about everywhere and the only thing I came across was PRO-MIX Ultimate Organic Mix and PRO-MIX For Outdoor Planting. (Both can been seen on this website the Ultimate Organic is third one down and the outdoor is second from the bottom... http://www.pallensmith.com/index.php?id=1649&company=32)

The Ultimate Organic Contains:
Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (65-75% by volume)
Sea-based Compost (from composted shrimp shells & seaweed)
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Perlite
Mycorise® - endomycorrhizae inoculant

and the Outdoor Mix Contains:
Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (45-55% by volume)
Peat Humus
Compost from shrimp by-products, seaweed or softwood bark
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Mycorise® - endomycorrhizae inoculant

Last time around I ended up using about 18 cu ft of soil during the entire grow so I figured that is how much Pro-Mix I will buy this time around and if I have extra I will grow some veggies in the spring. Both of these Pro-Mixes came in 1cu ft packages and the place only had 5 of the Ultimate Organic and they had a ton of the Outdoor Mix. Since this was the best thing I had seen all day I bought all of the Ultimate Organic and then bought 13 more packages of the Outdoor Mix.

Now I am a first time organic user so be gentle... My questions to you all are:
Which is better to use for clones and seedling? It appears that the Ultimate Organic is recommended for seedlings but do I need to add anything additional to the mixture? From my limited knowledge I was planning on using the Ultimate Mix and adding some additional perlite but figured I should find out some more information... Also do I need to add perlite and then water to get the Mycorise up and running for seedlings and clones?

Also the mixture my friend uses is this:
2 cu feet of Pro-Mix Bx
15% perlite
15% worm castings
4 cups bonemeal
2 cups blood meal
2 cups kelp meal
Would this mixture still work with the Outdoor Mix that I have? Does anyone recommend a different route? Also I have read that after I mix these things I have to water the mixture and let stand for a while (friend recommended 2 weeks) to let the Mycorise do its thing. Is this correct?

Like I said before I was planning on using the Ultimate Mix and some perlite to start seedlings and clones (most likely in small cups) and then after a week or two I would then transfer the plants into a 1 gallon pot (with the mixture above). Will this mixture burn any seedlings or clones two weeks in? After veging for a month or until plants are around 10-12 inches (depending on stretch) I will transfer to plant to flower and as soon as I see calyxes I transfer the females to 5 gallon pots (also the above mixture).

My friend also recommended that I use:
Prue Blend Pro Veg for feeding
Pure Blend Pro Flower for feeding in flower and rotate between this and Flora Nova Bloom
And then use some Superthrive as a vitamin to reduce stress during Topping/cloning and transplanting.
Would anyone do anything different? I am missing anything?

I think that is about all the questions I have... Thank you all in advance for helping... any input or additional information is welcome.

 

[ICAN]

I'm looking at these 2 mixes also.

One thing noticed... aren't basically all of these mixes organic? ... peat moss, shrimp shells and seaweed, limestone, perlite, mycofungus

The Outdoor Mix even states that it is certified to be used for Organic crops
http://www.premierhort.com/eProMix/Gardening/fGardening.htm






The Ultimate Organic Contains:
Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (65-75% by volume)
Sea-based Compost (from composted shrimp shells & seaweed)
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Perlite
Mycorise® - endomycorrhizae inoculant

and the Outdoor Mix Contains:
Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (45-55% by volume)
Peat Humus
Compost from shrimp by-products, seaweed or softwood bark
Limestone (for pH adjustment)
Mycorise® - endomycorrhizae inoculant

 

[staff11]

I use the organic pro-mix in place of normal pro-mix in the LC recipe for beginners. It seems to work pretty good. Of course I do grow indoors so I don't know about outside. I added Espoma Biotone in my flower mix this time around and the plants seem to really love the stuff. I think it costs about 5 dollars for a cubic foot bag of the organic pro-mix.

 

[intotheunknown]

i just got done with a bout with pro-mix. IMHEO dont go with the pro-mix. the new stuff has "mycorise" (pro-mix HP) BX i think has it too. but it has added major and micro nutrients in it already.
and i believe that is what my last problem was. not to mention pro-mix is ridiculous in price... i will never again use anything PRO-MIX.

make this... its LC's 1 mix under organics for beginners...
use a 3qt container as your parts

5 parts canadian sphagnum peat moss
2 parts earthworm castings
2 parts perlite
this makes about 1 cubic ft of soiless mix.
to that add 1 cup POWDERED dolomite lime.
or 2 tablespoons dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix.
mix it really well. also its best to let it sit for a good 2 weeks.
give it a good toss over daily.

this mix is really versatile and you can do many different things with it. especially in your case.

 

[guest2012y]

i just got done with a bout with pro-mix. IMHEO dont go with the pro-mix. the new stuff has "mycorise" (pro-mix HP) BX i think has it too. but it has added major and micro nutrients in it already.
and i believe that is what my last problem was. not to mention pro-mix is ridiculous in price... i will never again use anything PRO-MIX.

make this... its LC's 1 mix under organics for beginners...
use a 3qt container as your parts

5 parts canadian sphagnum peat moss
2 parts earthworm castings
2 parts perlite
this makes about 1 cubic ft of soiless mix.
to that add 1 cup POWDERED dolomite lime.
or 2 tablespoons dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix.
mix it really well. also its best to let it sit for a good 2 weeks.
give it a good toss over daily.

this mix is really versatile and you can do many different things with it. especially in your case.

If you are going with the dry food ingredients ....make sure to mix them in with this initial mix.

 

[staff11]

i just got done with a bout with pro-mix. IMHEO dont go with the pro-mix. the new stuff has "mycorise" (pro-mix HP) BX i think has it too. but it has added major and micro nutrients in it already.
and i believe that is what my last problem was. not to mention pro-mix is ridiculous in price... i will never again use anything PRO-MIX.

make this... its LC's 1 mix under organics for beginners...
use a 3qt container as your parts

5 parts canadian sphagnum peat moss
2 parts earthworm castings
2 parts perlite
this makes about 1 cubic ft of soiless mix.
to that add 1 cup POWDERED dolomite lime.
or 2 tablespoons dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix.
mix it really well. also its best to let it sit for a good 2 weeks.
give it a good toss over daily.

this mix is really versatile and you can do many different things with it. especially in your case.

Are you sure? Most pro-mix has almost zero nutrients added in, they are in such small amounts that they aren't even listed on the bag. The bag even stats that you should use a complete fertilizer program along with the mix. This is the organic pro-mix btw. I haven't had really any problems besides over watering a few times with it. And 5 dollars for a cubic foot of soil doesn't really break the bank? The peat moss route is cheaper though.

 

[intotheunknown]

Are you sure? Most pro-mix has almost zero nutrients added in, they are in such small amounts that they aren't even listed on the bag. The bag even stats that you should use a complete fertilizer program along with the mix. This is the organic pro-mix btw. I haven't had really any problems besides over watering a few times with it. And 5 dollars for a cubic foot of soil doesn't really break the bank? The peat moss route is cheaper though.

i thought so too, but i did some reading about it and found it here on the internet, and under the list of ingredients it says major and micro nutrients are in the pro-mix HP. as well as BX i believe.

Capt.Cheeze1 has helped me out a GREAT deal with this and in the midst of trying to figure everything out, i read up on it. and im almost 100% positive that was my problem.

besides, the pro-mix was not cheap to me... 40$ for a 3.8cubic ft bale? never again.

however. you never know, you might have good luck with it. i just wouldnt recommend it.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

If you can try and source Sunshine mixes - specifically the Sunshine Organic Growers Mix which comes in 2.8 c.f. loose bags. Part of that depends on what part of the US you live in.

That specific product is strictly organic - even down to the wetting agent that they use, i.e. food-grade organic yucca extract. The potting soil mix contains peat moss, coir, pumice, perlite, vermiculite and gypsum. The mixes are PH adjusted at the packing plant and then are treated with the yucca extract.

The bags are around $19.00 for singles and huge discounts for 10+ bags or more.

Add 1 c.f. of compost/EWC to each 2.8 c.f. bag and some pumice if you'd like, add your minerals and soil amendments and you're good to go.

BTW - Sunshine mixes are manufactured by Sun Gro Horticulture out of British Columbia and is about 4x the size of Pro-Mix.

CC

 

[EatMoGrass]

I've been looking all over for that Sunshine Organic Growers mix but havent had any luck.
I asked at my local Brew and Grow and they looked on their computer and told me it looks like they are the only Brew and Grow around that does not carry the stuff.
The other local "Indoor grow shop"(much much larger than Brew and Grow) carries just about everything in the NGW catalog except the Sunshine brand soils.

I'm trying to get away from the Ocean Forest I have been using almost five years now as their soil has recently changed.

The last two bags of Ocean Forest I bought were noticeably warm to the touch, unlike any of the last 50 bags I have purchased over the last five years.

I read that FoxFarm had run out of compost and was using pre-compost that had not finished cooking. That makes since to me as those last bags were very warm in cold weather during early spring.

 

[Zendo]

OP - Take CC's advice.. When looking to get away from Pro Mix for various reasons, he advised me to go with the sunshine growers natural and organic, and I've never looked back.

I am having really good results from this, and like how it looks/smells/feels/ and waters..

You won't be sorry.

 

[staff11]

I would love to take CC's advice too however there is no where near me that carries sunshine mix, of any kind.

 

[Zendo]

I've been looking all over for that Sunshine Organic Growers mix but havent had any luck.
I asked at my local Brew and Grow and they looked on their computer and told me it looks like they are the only Brew and Grow around that does not carry the stuff.
The other local "Indoor grow shop"(much much larger than Brew and Grow) carries just about everything in the NGW catalog except the Sunshine brand soils.

I'm trying to get away from the Ocean Forest I have been using almost five years now as their soil has recently changed.

The last two bags of Ocean Forest I bought were noticeably warm to the touch, unlike any of the last 50 bags I have purchased over the last five years.

I read that FoxFarm had run out of compost and was using pre-compost that had not finished cooking. That makes since to me as those last bags were very warm in cold weather during early spring.

Eatmo- I have yet to hear of a 'hydro' store that won't order anything you want at the drop of a hat..I convinced my local shop to get me some, and within 5 days they not only had it, but now they sell and stock both that and the mix #4..

If they can make money off it, they'll get it for you..

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Check at your local Loews or HomeDepot stores and see if they carry a 3 c.f. bale of peat moss with this label:

The actual package MAY look like this:

Let me know if you can source this specific brand and you can be up and running in no time.

CC

 

[guest2012y]

Eatmo- I have yet to hear of a 'hydro' store that won't order anything you want at the drop of a hat..I convinced my local shop to get me some, and within 5 days they not only had it, but now they sell and stock both that and the mix #4..

If they can make money off it, they'll get it for you..

I have this going on with 2 out of the 3 that I reluctantly deal with.

 

[staff11]

And I don't really like to visit the "hydro store" very often. I have a feeling EatMoGrass and I live in the same region. I get the pro-mix ultimate organic for $4.99 a bag from Menards. For a small time grower, I can mix up plenty for each grow with one bag. I guess it really depends on how much you need.

Thanks Clack i will check into that. But so far I really have had zero problems with pro-mix.

Most stores around me carry Premier peat moss bales for pretty cheap, next time I make a batch I may use that. Same company that makes pro-mix.

Is there something wrong with their quality control? Or have people just in general have problems with it?

I also get my dolomite lime from Menards... 5 dollars for a 50 pound bag that will probably last me a life time.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

staff11

The base ingredients in the Pro-Mix Organic product definitely look good and seems to be well balanced.

The only nit I might have is that it appears to be a consumer/retail product. The issue here is that companies like Pro-Mix and Sun Gro (Sunshine) have different grade levels of peat moss that they use in their professional mixes vs. the retail products.

Sun Gro besides packing the Sunshine mixes also packs the Black Gold Potting Soil products. Other than their organic product(s), the peat moss that is used in this product line is not of the same quality as the Sunshine mixes. Also the professional mixes from both companies are PH adjusted at the time of bagging. This is fairly straight-forward as the peat comes into the facilities in huge amounts from the same point of harvest up in Canada - meaning that you can do a long run and pretty much have a handle on the amount of lime agents that are needed to be added to get to the proper PH level.

Consumer soils because they're price-driven don't have this attention to detail. Consider that the average customer for these potting soils is going to buy a nice container, some potting soil and a plant of some kind and if it doesn't die then it was a good choice for most folks.

Pushing a plant in a 3-4 month cycle requires a bit more refinement on how you construct your potting soils.

Just a couple of thoughts...............

CC

 

[staff11]

Thanks, I didn't even realize they had separate divisions for retail and commercial. I do follow the advice of adding more lime to the mix and so far maybe that is the difference for me.

 

[EatMoGrass]

And I don't really like to visit the "hydro store" very often. I have a feeling EatMoGrass and I live in the same region. I get the pro-mix ultimate organic for $4.99 a bag from Menards. For a small time grower, I can mix up plenty for each grow with one bag. I guess it really depends on how much you need.

Thanks Clack i will check into that. But so far I really have had zero problems with pro-mix.

Most stores around me carry Premier peat moss bales for pretty cheap, next time I make a batch I may use that. Same company that makes pro-mix.

Is there something wrong with their quality control? Or have people just in general have problems with it?

I also get my dolomite lime from Menards... 5 dollars for a 50 pound bag that will probably last me a life time.

What? Pro mix Organic at Menards?
I live ten minutes from two different Menards and I sometimes buy my hardwood lump charcoal there.
I bought a 50# bag of dolomitic lime at Jung in Madison for $6 four years ago and still have over ten pounds left.

Jung also has OMRI labeled 2 and 3.8cu ft bales of Peat at a reasonable price, but I cannot remember the brand name.
Is an OMRI labled bale of peat of better quality than others?

 

[staff11]

Yeah, they carry it around the Menards I live by. It was about 5 bucks a bag when I was there last fall. I'm south of you...by a state line. lol

 

[EatMoGrass]

I have already rated to many posts helpful today so I cannot rate anymore posts today.
Great info here today.
Thanks everybody, and especially CC