just a note for those using humic acid in soiless mixtures...

[CT Guy]

SEAWEED AND HUMATE INSTRUCTIONS for Keep It Simple, Inc.


1.Don’t add soluble seaweed and humate powders “until you’ve diluted the tea down as far as you’ll be diluting it”… (this is so we know how many total gallons of liquid diluted product we’re adding to…)

2.Once diluted down as far as it will be, then you may add the following amounts of soluble seaweed and humate powders on a “per-gallon-of-diluted-material basis”
a.Add 1/8th teaspoon (not tablespoon) of TeraVita SP-90 (or SP-85) soluble humate powder in each gallon of diluted material AACT and WATER…
b.Add 1/2 teaspoon (not tablespoon) of Nature’s Essence SEP soluble seaweed powder in each gallon of diluted material AACT and WATER…

3.More of each ingredient can be added under certain circumstances, but I know how people are, so I have to decline to recommend any higher amounts. The above rates will provide nice results, over a couple months time, especially if these rates (whether diluted in tea, or in water alone) are applied to both foliage and soil, every two weeks, consistently.

4.The above recommended rates assume “level” measures of teaspoons…

5.The above rates are what I would refer to as minimums, unless a higher frequency of application were being made (then that would need to be addressed on a case by case basis)…

 

[OC80]

It doesnt look like gonzo is too popular atm, but im leaning towards his side... I doubt the HA caused a ca lock out within a single day... either you burnt something, or the def. was already poking its head. I dont have any experience using excessive amounts of HA, and dont see the need.

 

[OC80]

<----noob
Double post

 

[big ballin 88]

I diluted at a rate of 2oz of the powder to a quart of water(which is probably the main problem) to make the main extract. From there i diluted down to a rate of a Tbsp per 20oz of water. The 2oz of powder was recommended as a light dilution rate, but per gallon. A typical rate is 4oz to a gal.

I still think i was using way too much. Supposedly humic acid bonds to calcium, so if to much was added it would tie up calcium. My plants were healthy and green before i had started using the humic acid dilute. This is where the problem progressed. I think its the humic acid because i switched to straight water after the problem and things are growing back to normal. The problem probably happened since i'm used to working in gallons and i ended up using a water bottle instead. I have had the powder work great for me on my vegetable garden, but thats because its super diluted.

I'll definitely agree i'm a noob when it comes to some of these things. I've been gardening for almost 6-7 years now and i continue to find new thing in organics. Using soluble powders is one of those things.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

My understanding is the fulvic acid is present in the humic acid, just not listed as a component due to labeling restrictions, etc....associated with the industry. Certain States allow for different claims regarding %'s of humic acid is how it was explained to me by the owner of Tera Vita. He said the fulvic was there, just not as a % because of the above mentioned reasons.

The information from Tera Vita is 'spot on' and explains the labeling restriction in California and Oregon. Washington will probably be next from what I understand.

One company in particular that sells humic/fulvic acids (BioAg.com) has a separate page for California and Oregon customers and another page for the residents in other states where it's called 'fulvic acid'

Weird.

CC

 

[CT Guy]

The information from Tera Vita is 'spot on' and explains the labeling restriction in California and Oregon. Washington will probably be next from what I understand.

One company in particular that sells humic/fulvic acids (BioAg.com) has a separate page for California and Oregon customers and another page for the residents in other states where it's called 'fulvic acid'

Weird.

CC

I've heard good things about BioAg but haven't tried it myself

 

[gonzo`]

Doesn't make sense how it can lock out calcium... Also how are you attributing it to a calcium lockout?

Incorrect pH is the more likely answer.

 

[abuldur]

As i understand it fulvic/humic acids are boosters they enhance the absortion of ferts.

Could it be that your ca problem is only caused by this booster effect?
Fulvic/humic acids might be more effective for some part of yor ferts thus creating an inbalance in your mix which then shows up as ca def?

peace

 

[gonzo`]

lol, ca def being caused by over absorption because the humic/fulvic works too well hehe... could be tho...

I still don't know how HE knows its a ca def...

I don't want to be a dick but I just can't help myself in this instance. This whole thread is a waste of space. Still no info on application rate, medium, water source... nothing...

 

[big ballin 88]

Gonzo- I'm sorry that you feel i haven't answered any of the questions you'd like but i have answered most of them. The only one i didn't answer is that i use blumat jr's, which i cleaned out after this problem. My medium is Secondtry's soilless mix and application rate is above. Once again you may consider this a waste of space, but this is only for the people who say nothing can happen from too much humic acid. Maybe its just my expereince maybe its not, but in any case somebody should be able to learn off my mistake.

I know its a calcium deficiency because of the copper/rust spots on the newest growth. Not to mention a burn that is unlike a typical toxicity, by turning a dark blue and the tips and getting crusty. Not to mention the plant started looking better now that i hit it with a dolomite foliar feed. I've had pH problems before and this isn't how they looked.

abuldur- Like i said i do think it is from too much humic acid. If humic acid immediately bonds to calcium in a soilless medium, too much could easily lock-up the available calcium. Maybe what your saying plays into it the same way, or is a co-factor.

 

[gonzo`]

Dosage you said was 2oz per quart... how did you apply this then? what was the final application rate?

 

[big ballin 88]

Gonzo that was not the final application rate. That was the first dilution rate to turn the powder to a liquid extract. From there like i said earlier, i added a tbsp per 20fl oz. which was used as the blumat's res. The next day you could start to see the onset of the problem starting with the copper spots.

Now mind you the 2oz of powder to liquid is where its much stronger than others, most likely. I should've broken down the weight by a 1/4 of the recommened dosages. This is how i feel after seeing the results i have gone through.

 

[gonzo`]

1 tbls = 15mL
20 fl oz = 0.60L = 600mL

Yes mate, you were overdosing BIG TIME.

I've just ordered some powdered mix. I plan on using the exact same dilution rate 2oz to a L. But i'm going to apply that concentrated mix at 1mL per L. You were applying at a rate 30 times more than I am going to.

 

[big ballin 88]

1 tbls = 15mL
20 fl oz = 0.60L = 600mL

Yes mate, you were overdosing BIG TIME.

I've just ordered some powdered mix. I plan on using the exact same dilution rate 2oz to a L. But i'm going to apply that concentrated mix at 1mL per L. You were applying at a rate 30 times more than I am going to.

Well its good to see it in numbers. Thanks for doing the math. Well to anybody who said there are no ill-effect try out 30x and see if you get any problems haha. I think the second biggest problem was the blumat's giving them a continous supply as they needed more water for the day. At least now i know.

 

[Bron]

I too am using a soiless mix (Sunshine 4). I use Mycorrazae which is 16% humic acid and 18% kelp with additional trace micro-organisms. 17 days into flower with fantastic results using recommended dosage on the pack. I always test the water ph after adding my nutes and adjust up or down accordingly. Hope this helps in some way.

 

[kkparikh]

Kind of a late reply but was reading so figured should add my 2 cents...

As I understand it, humic acid is insoluble in water, however what is soluble are the potassium, calcium and other salts of humic acid. So any liquid forms of humic acids are actually these soluble salts. So when you have a high concentration of Ca present, the Ca being more reactive than the potassium, will replace the potassium and thus become trapped. Your logic of having a higher than required amount of humic acids present sounds logical atleast based on my understanding.