Is is me or do some growers in Cali actually not want pot legalised??

[nomaad]

KOROZ: Just because a grower sells his "excess medical marijuana" to a qualified patient "in good faith" establishing legal "intent" to only distribute to such patients in the spirit of prop 215 doesn't mean the ganja stays in the state. If you know 6 growers I know 60, and its clear that you have about as much of a clue as I have official statistics from the State of California's Board of Interstate Cannabis Trafficking. (edit: this is a fictional body. i am being a smart-ass.)

 

[Koroz]

Ok, I can be an asshole too. I read your pdf. Top to bottom, and the reason you can't answer my question is because your report DOES NOT ADDRESS QUANTITIES. Apparently you've never learned the difference between arrests and imprisonment.

Sure, lots of folks get arrested. Then they pay their $100 fine and go home. So I guess the state will lose that income and cops will stop draggin people to the police station to pay their fines and get into the system.

So where is the prison population that will be released when TC2010 passes eh? What segment do you think will be freed?

Does it hurt this bad to be so wrong?

The unprecedented shift in California law enforcement
priorities towards targeting the demand side of the drug war is clearly demonstrated by
the extraordinary increase in the rate of arrests for misdemeanor possession (small
quantity, less than one ounce*) of marijuana (Table 1).

and

* Misdemeanor possession of marijuana involves one ounce or less (Health and Safety Code Section 11357)
and carries a maximum punishment of a $100 fine. Under Proposition 36, a voter-approved initiative
effective July 1, 2001, first- and second- time possession-only offenders may opt for a treatment program
instead of jail. Possession convictions are expunged from the offender’s record after two years or upon
successful completion of the program (Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5, 11361.7.).

Try reading and not skimming. Now granted, a lot of those busted for "possession" are given a ticket and on their way, but if they are doing anything like they are doing in NY where possession is defined by having it in your pocket, then asking for you to hand it to them and busting you for having illegal narcotics in public which then turns into a jail sentence that would explain why the numbers seem high for a state that offers a 100 dollar fine.

NY also has a 100 dollar fine, its how they arrest you that turns your 100 dollar fine into jail time.

 

[Koroz]

KOROZ: Just because a grower sells his "excess medical marijuana" to a qualified patient "in good faith" establishing legal "intent" to only distribute to such patients in the spirit of prop 215 doesn't mean the ganja stays in the state. If you know 6 growers I know 60, and its clear that you have about as much of a clue as I have official statistics from the State of California's Board of Interstate Cannabis Trafficking.

so post it? You can't prove that 90% of Cannabis leaves the state. It's impossible. Why? Because they only can track the cannabis from people they bust. 90% is a made up number. I am asking for you to post these links. Do you work for the CBICT and that is why you can't post it?

 

[Lazyman]

Does it hurt this bad to be so wrong?

LOL, are you under some sort of impression that you've schooled me? You have only proven my point that most of the people in jail for possession are not going to be released by legalization. Are you slow or something?

Try reading and not skimming. Now granted, a lot of those busted for "possession" are given a ticket and on their way, but if they are doing anything like they are doing in NY where possession is defined by having it in your pocket, then asking for you to hand it to them and busting you for having illegal narcotics in public which then turns into a jail sentence that would explain why the numbers seem high for a state that offers a 100 dollar fine.

NY also has a 100 dollar fine, its how they arrest you that turns your 100 dollar fine into jail time.

You're grasping at straws now dude, or can you pull a study about how NY cops are related to California police tactics?

How's it feel to be unequivocally wrong?

 

[apartmentblower]

I don't understand all this "strains will be gone" Kill gene" "no more potency"
Monsanto going to come and take my seeds and breeding stock away?
Yeah right

ask a farmer 20 years ago if he would get sued by monsanto and LOSE b/c a patented soybean pollinated his field. yah right he woulda said. some of u are so buried up to your foreheads, cant see shit

This is propoganda. Baseless fear mongering. No better than Reefer Madness. Fuck all of you for valuing your profit over people's freedoms.

how bout you click google and type in "Iraq war casulties" its not that fuckin hard. bet you think vietnam was a success dont ya

You might have your legal weed long enough to see your daughter get to college. Then your "freedom," your "house," your "job," and "your kids" will be a thing of the past as you know it...

exactly. nevermind the legalizaton movement, ill support whoever wants to take to the streets to actually fight for REAL ENCOMPASSING FREEDOMS. the med patients are generally in a good place and can more often than not get their meds, thats good they are safe. but directing all your energy to fight for the "freedom" (yah right) to grow a few plants in a designated 5x5 space with designated yeilds is so loopy. start at the top , fight for the right to live your life as you see fit as long as you dont harm anyone else. god im crazy

as far as im concerned 95% of the ones dedicating their life to legalization will sit quiet once they are allowed to grow weed and stand by as all of our remaining freedoms get eroded. its a problem of the world its not localized to california. but what am i asking this is a weed forum. need to head over to anarcho-libertarian-revolution-front.com or something

 

[apartmentblower]

I said this a few times before, I'm in a semi ass backwards state, no MMJ even, nothing will change for us anytime soon if this passes, my hopes are that it will help us get to where cali is now, MMJ, I would love the way things are there to be here, legalization here? Not for a long time from where I'm sitting, I just want things to lighten up a bit for us, tired of laying ultra low.
Far as a tax goes? I would comply with it to all apperances, but still do a big low down side business tax free, f**k it's all low down now, I would just like the chance to breath a little easier where I am.

bud i feel for you. but you have to realize that at some point its going to be either your life/freedom vs. you moving to a friendlier location.

“If the world is truly as ugly, cruel, trivial, unjust and stinking with fraud as it usually appears, and if it is really impossible to make it pleasant and decent, then there remains only one alternative for the honest man: stay home, cultivate your own garden, look to the mountains."
-Edward Abbey (1927-1989)

 

[apartmentblower]

now that is just stupid. If I was rich I sure would not try to get richer buy starting up a grow.

"In January 2009, Sutton was sentenced to eighteen months in a federal prison for illegally brewing spirits"

You are not interested in freedom. you are interested in living a comfortable life and growing a little bit of weed. real freedom is REAL FREEDOM not the bullshit laws we all live under that sentence a man to the federal pen for brewing some liquor that massive corporations already do. growers will continue to go to jail numbnuts. just watch. and if its not growers its somebody else committing a "crime" that doesn't harm any other living beings. you guys are missing the big picture or just dont care. icmag used to be full of real people, real outlaws, real guerrillas, real freedom lovers and dare say it real patriots. you guys are just the same people in every other walk of life who have one thing in common, you smoke marijuana. i cant relate to you otherwise

 

[apartmentblower]

there are plenty of shiners doing just fine...

california is not shine country..but i can get shine for you in tennessee..

i knew a guy in TN who sold shine at the flea market! he called it "pickled cherries" big 'ol mason jars full of shine and fresh cherries...

you just refuted all your own arguments. shiners still go to jail!!! as evidenced by the above. the bill is not about freedom man!!!! its about legislating another part of your life. prisons wont magically stop being filled. trust me. you cant fight it from within like this.

 

[apartmentblower]

guys what im trying to say is this, just so you have a reference point for my seemingly inane comments:

i love smoking weed.i love growing weed. i hate people telling me what to do. nobody should ever stop me from doing something unless it harms them or affects negatively their ability to live a fruitful and joyous life. nobody ever has to go to jail. we wont even have jails. we won't have judges prosecutors cops DA's or any figure of authority. i'll grow potatoes you can grow apples and he can take care of the cows. we'll all get baked together and eat psychedelic mushrooms or we won't if we don't feel like it, it doesn't matter. one day we will all hold hands and dance naked under the bonfire fueled by the bodies of all tyrants oppressors and assholes who would order us to shape our lives to their personal beliefs or plain evil world-view. it probably won't be in my lifetime but ill be there in spirit cause we are all one. dont forget the bigger picture.

 

[Kalicokitty]

ask a farmer 20 years ago if he would get sued by monsanto and LOSE b/c a patented soybean pollinated his field. yah right he woulda said. some of u are so buried up to your foreheads, cant see shit

You are dreaming and borderline delusional if you think monsanto is going to go into every house and take everyones seeds away.
Somebodys head is buried way up somewhere your right, its just not mine.
Bunch of alarmist crap

 

[Kalicokitty]

bud i feel for you. but you have to realize that at some point its going to be either your life/freedom vs. you moving to a friendlier location.

not necessarily, that's why I'm for voting yes, I hope that it will pave the way for MMJ here where I am now, we had it once, passed the house and senate, than the POS governor veto'ed it.
This is the area I know well, the people, the places, I would have a huge advantage here over any other location, but with that being said, I will not wait forever, next spring if it looks like nothing is changing here soon, then were off to MI.
By waiting till spring I figure it will give us a chance to see the nations reaction to this bill if it passes and if it will have any effect on the current laws in other states(as far as ushering in change)

 

[Kalicokitty]

". icmag used to be full of real people, real outlaws, real guerrillas, real freedom lovers and dare say it real patriots.

Like me?
Then why a couple posts ago did you tell me to move to a legal state and become a law abiding dufus cog in the machine then?
Make up your mind.

 

[dagnabit]

you just refuted all your own arguments. shiners still go to jail!!! as evidenced by the above. the bill is not about freedom man!!!! its about legislating another part of your life. prisons wont magically stop being filled. trust me. you cant fight it from within like this.

another person operating under the delusion that it is unregulated now

 

[HippyJohnny]

I think I understand what apartmentblower is saying.
Let me summarize my thoughts and I am done with this.

The revolution happened.. nobody noticed. The police state is kicking in the door of every aspect of our US society, and I have to be afraid if I have a "legal" contact with a cop.
Two people guilty of nothing more than driving on a suspended license and runnning away were killed "legally" by police in the past week. Both unarmed and not felons... my wifesbest freinds son was tasered to death in his own front yard... he was tweaked but was basically executed right there. again unarmed.

Food is polluted, corporations run the govt, we have more inmates than any other nation, the medical fiasco speaks for itself and although we can land on Mars we cant teach reading and math to our kids effectively.


There are now poor , poor(in debt) and rich... I am not the third, so the way I keep from going homicidal or suicidal depending on the day is to grow and smoke cannabis.

I will stay in my hole until the bonfire starts that AB speaks of.

I am just wanting the plant released. All of the other chains are no doubt still on and will stay that way.

Its gloomy here today and I guess my mood is too.

Peace

 

[itisme]

We are all allowed our own "opinions" but not our own facts "facts"

It is only your opinion that the values will fall and you have NO DATA to back it up!

Here are the FACTS:
1. CA spends over $1,000,000,000 per year fighting MJ growers, sellers, etc.
2. The US has well over 1,000,000 PEOPLE in jail and a lot of them are in CA for MJ charges, no I don't have exact numbers.
3. MJ will still be illegal in 49 other US STATES.
4. The worst thing about weed is the laws against it!
5. If the CA market sags in the US there is still 49 other states that need weed!
6. If you want weed kept illegal just so you can make and easy profit off of it and you put that above a state or nation of peoples well being you are act just like all the scumbag CEO's that robbed every bodies pension funds and our sorry ass politicians that put themselves above the people they are supposed to serve.

SICKBOYZAP claims that I am for big tobacco because I want weed legal. This is somebody that has NO IDEA!!! This in not a fact but a made up bunch of propaganda. His only concern is that he may not be able to make as much money as easily as he does now! My only concern is doing what is RIGHT!!!

 

[Pow3rBall]

No legalization, strictly med, bad 4 biz

 

[itisme]

No legalization, strictly med, bad 4 biz

That is really looking at the big picture! SIKE

To all those that want it kept illegal for your own monetary gain you are being very short sighted and you are now contributors to the problem.

IT IS VERY SAD!

 

[Pow3rBall]

That is really looking at the big picture! SIKE

To all those that want it kept illegal for your own monetary gain you are being very short sighted and you are now contributors to the problem.

IT IS VERY SAD!

Well this is wut this forum is about, open discussion and opinions, honestly, i could care less which way it went. it all boils down to this, is it more profitable for the Gov't to legalize it or criminalize it. Not ever about wut we want!

 

[Pow3rBall]

and it isnt about my profits at all, its about the price of it and the tax on it if it goes legal. thats wut i meant by bad for biz. sorry 4 the confusion.

 

[Koroz]

You're grasping at straws now dude, or can you pull a study about how NY cops are related to California police tactics?

How's it feel to be unequivocally wrong?

Did I say they were? Can you quote me one place where I said it "was" and not "possible"? Are you saying then that the numbers I provided are a lie?

The problem is I am giving you REAL numbers, from Actual studies and incarceration studies based on crimes they were convicted of. You are telling me that "you just know less then a handful of people are in jail for simple possession"

I am not "telling" you anything. I posted links to actual data on arrest rates which then leads into incarceration. So I am sorry you want to debate with "ifs" while I am debating with numbers. When you can provide me with an actual list that debates the conversation then there is nothing to talk to you about.

Again, post ANY numbers that back up your claims. Posting the law doesn't mean jack, and as I tried to state which I think you missed the boat on, in NY they are finding ways around the 100 dollar fine to put people in jail, even though it has been a 100 dollar fine here for a few years also.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=167229

There is a link to the study that NORML posted. The point I was trying to make is that its LESS OF A CRIME in NY to possess under an ounce then it is in Cali. In Cali its still a misdemeanor, while in NY its an infraction. Yet because the police have figured out a loop hole and constantly "tricks" its citizens into breaking that loop hole incarceration rates have doubled.

I think you are very, very naive about how police work. How the justice system works and how law does not equate to incarceration rates. Either that, or you are purposely trying to distort the truth for your own personal reasons. Let me guess, you are one of those growers who doesn't want to lose out on the 1-5 dollars extra he is making a gram so fighting vehemently with your own form of "Yellow Journalism" to continue to destroy peoples lives and keep it illega?