Is is me or do some growers in Cali actually not want pot legalised??

[itisme]

You're wrong about people being released from jail.

There aren't 1000000 people in california in jail for posession of under an ounce, or cultivating 2-5 plants. There simply aren't. In fact, there probably are less than a handful who would be technically freed by this.

Selling pounds of weed, cropping rooms or fields, transporting pounds, all those guys will remain in jail.

So what is the difference in the end?

It won't free all of them but it would some.....I am looking at the big picture and I think CALI will be better off once they stop spending 1 BILLION A YEAR fighting it alone....Not to mention all the other positives....

It is the first HUGE LEAP in getting a lot of those people out of prison. They released like 5,000 prisoners just about 6 months ago or so. I guarantee many other states follow a similar path. The state that makes is the most TRULY FREE MARKET STATE will benefit the most too!

How many would no longer be on PROBATION-paper jail too.... Lots of good would come of it. IT NEEDS TO BE A FREE MARKET THING LIKE BEER AND CIGS!!!

By the way, if it was you in jail and you were to be set free, would it be a big deal? I think so!

 

[Koroz]

You're wrong about people being released from jail.

There aren't 1000000 people in california in jail for posession of under an ounce, or cultivating 2-5 plants. There simply aren't. In fact, there probably are less than a handful who would be technically freed by this.

Selling pounds of weed, cropping rooms or fields, transporting pounds, all those guys will remain in jail.

So what is the difference in the end?

You are so fucking wrong it isn't even funny.

http://www.nacdl.org/sl_docs.nsf/issues/druglawreform/$FILE/CJCJMarijuanaArrestsCalifornia2009.pdf

Why don't you actually do some studying before calling other people wrong.

The result is that nearly one fourth of all drug arrests in California are now for simple
marijuana possession. Small-quantity marijuana possession is rapidly becoming
California’s main drug offense, with arrest rates rising at 1.8 times the rates for all other
drug offenses (Table 1). California’s trend toward vastly more marijuana possession
arrest is occurring at a time when death rates from overdoses of heroin, cocaine,
methamphetamine, prescription opiates, and combinations of these harder drugs are
soaring (2,100 in 1990, rising to 4,100 in 2007), indicating that genuine drug abuse and
addiction issues goes unaddressed.

and

Table 1. California drug arrests by category
Drug offense category 1990 2008 Rate change*
Misdemeanor marijuana possession 20,834 61,388 +127%
Possession of all other drugs 86,708 79,858 - 29%
Felony sale/manufacture of marijuana 16,819 17,126 - 21%
Felony sale/manufacture of all other drugs 128,732 111,191 - 33%
Marijuana possession, % of all drug arrests 8.2% 22.8% +178%
*Arrest rate adjusted for increase in California’s population age 10-69, the age defined as at risk for
arrest by the California Department of Justice.
Source: Criminal Justice Statistics Center (2009).

Table 3. California marijuana possession arrests, changes in numbers and
rates* by gender, race, and age group, 1990-2008
Arrest numbers Arrest rates/100,000 pop. Rate change*
Groups 1990 2008 1990 2008
2008 vs.
1990
All age 10-69 20,834 61,388 90.3 205.2 + 127%
Female 2,071 7,156 18.2 48.3 + 166%
Male 18,763 54,232 160.5 359.0 + 124%
Race
Asian 1,513 3,824 64.9 95.9 + 48%
European
American 10,408 23,163 78.5 175.8 + 124%
Hispanic 5,242 23,071 89.3 212.2 + 138%
African
American 3,671 11,330 225.6 604.1 + 168%
Age
<18 3,088 14,313 96.0 310.7 + 224%
18-20 4,245 16,039 294.8 903.6 + 207%
21-24 4,441 11,505 218.7 530.7 + 143%
25-29 4,118 7,699 145.1 301.1 + 107%
30-39 3,927 6,367 74.1 120.6 + 63%
40-49 839 3,744 22.4 65.5 + 192%
50-59 139 1,449 5.8 30.2 + 420%
60+ 37 272 1.7 9.1 + 418%
*Rates are based on the population age 10-69, defined by the California Department of
Justice as the population at risk for arrest. The population used to calculate rates for age <18
is 10-17; for age 60+, the population used is 60-69.
Source: California Criminal Justice Statistics Center (2009).

so take your propaganda and shove it. You are a FOOL if you think there is only a handful of people in the California penal system for simple possession or growing of 1-2 plants.

 

[dagnabit]

somebody saw my link..ohhhh happy day

 

[Lazyman]

You are so fucking wrong it isn't even funny.

http://www.nacdl.org/sl_docs.nsf/issues/druglawreform/$FILE/CJCJMarijuanaArrestsCalifornia2009.pdf

Why don't you actually do some studying before calling other people wrong.



and





so take your propaganda and shove it. You are a FOOL if you think there is only a handful of people in the California penal system for simple possession or growing of 1-2 plants.

You neg repped me for this? Watch yourself get owned:

California's Marijuana Laws
Possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor under California Health and Safety Code Section 11357. Possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less is punishable by a maximum $100 fine.

Since posession of over one ounce of weed is still going to be illegal, and nobody is in jail for posession of less than one ounce, those people will remain in jail. Going to jail for posession typically means POUNDS, which will remain illegal even if TC2010 passes.

Cultivation of any amount of marijuana is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11358. People who grow for personal use are eligible for diversion under Penal Code 1000 so long as there is no evidence of intent to sell. There are no fixed plant number limits to personal use cultivation.

Again, if it were for personal use they probably wouldn't be in jail. TC2010 does NOT change this.

And you call me an uneducated fool? You're the one living in a fantasy world. TC2010 will result in a handful of folks being released, at most. Most of them are probably only inside because they violated parole or something.

 

[Lazyman]

It won't free all of them but it would some.....I am looking at the big picture and I think CALI will be better off once they stop spending 1 BILLION A YEAR fighting it alone....Not to mention all the other positives....

It is the first HUGE LEAP in getting a lot of those people out of prison. They released like 5,000 prisoners just about 6 months ago or so. I guarantee many other states follow a similar path. The state that makes is the most TRULY FREE MARKET STATE will benefit the most too!

How many would no longer be on PROBATION-paper jail too.... Lots of good would come of it. IT NEEDS TO BE A FREE MARKET THING LIKE BEER AND CIGS!!!

By the way, if it was you in jail and you were to be set free, would it be a big deal? I think so!

Do you honestly believe that if TC2010 passes, cops will simply ignore all marijuana related calls? You know they won't. They will still have to enforce cultivation limits, forest service grows, dealing, driving under the influence and everything else. If anything, I think cops will have to spend even more time trying to figure out whats a legal grow and what isn't. This will not save them money! CAMP will still operate at full capacity, I'm quite certain.

Again, who is in jail that you think will be released? The guy who got caught holding a dime bag never went to jail in the first place. The guy who got caught running pounds will REMAIN IN JAIL. Don't you see that?

 

[Koroz]

You neg repped me for this? Watch yourself get owned:

California's Marijuana Laws
Possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor under California Health and Safety Code Section 11357. Possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less is punishable by a maximum $100 fine.

Since posession of over one ounce of weed is still going to be illegal, and nobody is in jail for posession of less than one ounce, those people will remain in jail. Going to jail for posession typically means POUNDS, which will remain illegal even if TC2010 passes.

Cultivation of any amount of marijuana is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11358. People who grow for personal use are eligible for diversion under Penal Code 1000 so long as there is no evidence of intent to sell. There are no fixed plant number limits to personal use cultivation.

Again, if it were for personal use they probably wouldn't be in jail. TC2010 does NOT change this.

And you call me an uneducated fool? You're the one living in a fantasy world. TC2010 will result in a handful of folks being released, at most. Most of them are probably only inside because they violated parole or something.

You stated that there is less then a handful of prisoners in jail for simple possession, I proved with you LINKS to real inmate data that says you are full of shit.

I neg-repped you because the propaganda that you are spewing is the same propaganda the prohibitionist RELY on to keep it illegal. why? Because they don't want facts they want fallacies created by people who don't do research like yourself.

You can cite "law" all you want, can you provide NUMBERS OF INMATES that refute the states claims posted above? If you can't then your statement was not only wrong, it was uneducated guess based on a law and nothing else. The law does NOT = incarceration rates.

 

[Koroz]

Do you honestly believe that if TC2010 passes, cops will simply ignore all marijuana related calls? You know they won't. They will still have to enforce cultivation limits, forest service grows, dealing, driving under the influence and everything else. If anything, I think cops will have to spend even more time trying to figure out whats a legal grow and what isn't. This will not save them money! CAMP will still operate at full capacity, I'm quite certain.

Again, who is in jail that you think will be released? The guy who got caught holding a dime bag never went to jail in the first place. The guy who got caught running pounds will REMAIN IN JAIL. Don't you see that?

This is the truth. no argument here.

TC2010 does nothing to help those people who WERE arrested. What it will do is kill the market for illegal sales, allow you personal grows with no limit on your in home amount (1oz on person outside of home) and will keep people out of jail for carrying below an ounce.

I have been a very long time opponent to TC2010. With that said, the more I think about it, the more I sit in a state like NY when I know what the climate was like in California (lived there for 31 years) I know that something is needed to be done.

As much as every state should do their own thing, the truth of the matter is no state short of places like Colorado, Oregon, Washington and California will legalize until one of those places do and prove that Cannabis will not destroy their way of life. Because of that, because of the fact that NY has DOUBLED its arrest rates for possession, and because of states where I have family members who are doing the same I have come to the conclusion that TC2010 is the closest thing we have to winning the fight against our freedoms.

 

[grow nerd]

Who won?

 

[medmaker420]

Do you honestly believe that if TC2010 passes, cops will simply ignore all marijuana related calls? You know they won't. They will still have to enforce cultivation limits, forest service grows, dealing, driving under the influence and everything else. If anything, I think cops will have to spend even more time trying to figure out whats a legal grow and what isn't. This will not save them money! CAMP will still operate at full capacity, I'm quite certain.

Again, who is in jail that you think will be released? The guy who got caught holding a dime bag never went to jail in the first place. The guy who got caught running pounds will REMAIN IN JAIL. Don't you see that?

Actually I see the cops being even more lax. Back a few years ago I was smoking and had some herb (pre med card) and cops came, well it was actually a party and some dumb fuck let them in. They simply blew all my bud on the floor like pricks BUT left the fuckin place. If it was legalized I doubt they would be so fast to waste time on something unless they knew it was worth the time.

I see the bullshit "I saw my neighbor smoking weed" calls to not end in anything as well as those who see a plant in a yard and the cops not caring. I do however see them trying damn hard to get people for sales or LARGE LARGE LARGE distribution.

God forbit fuckin cops have to take time to find out legal from illegal, oh wait isn't that their job versus simply locking up anyone with a pipe, a joint and whatever else?

I hope they spend more time on it because in the end they will realize after going to so many legal setups it is really a waste of their time and should focus on fuckin crackheads breaking into cars for dope and gangsters shootin up streets trying to play "look at my colors and watch me puff my chest"

 

[Lazyman]

You stated that there is less then a handful of prisoners in jail for simple possession, I proved with you LINKS to real inmate data that says you are full of shit.

I neg-repped you because the propaganda that you are spewing is the same propaganda the prohibitionist RELY on to keep it illegal. why? Because they don't want facts they want fallacies created by people who don't do research like yourself.

You can cite "law" all you want, can you provide NUMBERS OF INMATES that refute the states claims posted above? If you can't then your statement was not only wrong, it was uneducated guess based on a law and nothing else. The law does NOT = incarceration rates.

Prove to me that one of those people is inside for posession of less than an ounce. I do shitloads of research, but none of it shows people going to jail for "would-be-legal: amounts.

Posession of large quantities of weed will continue to be illegal, and those folks will not be released if TC2010 passes.

I am not trying to spew propaganda, I'm simply asking people to vote with their heads and not their hearts. Nothing I've said is false, or I wouldn't have wasted the energy to fucking type it. If you can prove me wrong I'd be happy to retract any false information.

So far I've seen more falsehoods out of you, as you're assuming everyone in jail for posession is there for some meager amount. I cited the law that says megaer amounts get fined, or diversion. Balls in your court.

 

[medmaker420]

Prove to me that one of those people is inside for posession of less than an ounce. I do shitloads of research, but none of it shows people going to jail for "would-be-legal: amounts.

Posession of large quantities of weed will continue to be illegal, and those folks will not be released if TC2010 passes.

I am not trying to spew propaganda, I'm simply asking people to vote with their heads and not their hearts. Nothing I've said is false, or I wouldn't have wasted the energy to fucking type it. If you can prove me wrong I'd be happy to retract any false information.

So far I've seen more falsehoods out of you, as you're assuming everyone in jail for posession is there for some meager amount. I cited the law that says megaer amounts get fined, or diversion. Balls in your court.

Here I will toss my thoughts on this

Just because they are not in jail doesn't mean they didn't get arrested, locked up, deal with court and all the fees. SIMPLE POSSESSION is a big fuckin issue and just because people are not sitting in jail for 5+ for it doesn't make it any better.

The costs especially when you talk about the damn cops costs are a big waste with the time spent with simple posession arrests.

As far as those locked up long term, as things get better and sales for instance are allowed what will happen to those in jail for sales?

step 1 - meds
step 2 - legalization
step 3 - just wait

There are plenty who get locked up whether that be in the back of a car, jail house, house arrest and whatever else might come of it. Those are wasted efforts for something that makes zero sense currently.

if you want to keep trying to debate how long a person is in jail or if it was simple possession or not then that is your business but look at the damn big picture.

Should cops waste their time on pot offenses from anyone that rats out a neighbor or what have you? Do you think they are going to jump to raid people or will they JUST MAYBE do their job and make sure nothing illegal is actually going in?

Whether you simply have to deal with court or locked up for a bit really doesn't minimize the problem at all. You want to talk about cost savings? stop fuckin wasting time on petty pot "crimes" and focus on shit that actually is PRODUCTIVE within the city.

Also what was your point? saying that criminals are in jail or is it that since selling a plant is currently illegal they should rot in jail like the criminals they are?

So anything over an ounce is big numbers? Since you research do you have stats on the amounts these people were locked up for? Also how did they go about finding it, couldn't have been an "odor" coming from the house, maybe a guy smells like herb and then since it is illegal have the right to search him and or his car, house? Please help me out here

 

[Koroz]

Prove to me that one of those people is inside for posession of less than an ounce. I do shitloads of research, but none of it shows people going to jail for "would-be-legal: amounts.

Posession of large quantities of weed will continue to be illegal, and those folks will not be released if TC2010 passes.

I am not trying to spew propaganda, I'm simply asking people to vote with their heads and not their hearts. Nothing I've said is false, or I wouldn't have wasted the energy to fucking type it. If you can prove me wrong I'd be happy to retract any false information.

So far I've seen more falsehoods out of you, as you're assuming everyone in jail for posession is there for some meager amount. I cited the law that says megaer amounts get fined, or diversion. Balls in your court.

Holy fucking christ, do you really want me to post every single part of the PDF because you are too lazy to read it yourself?

THE INFO IS IN THERE. Its DEFINED in the quote I gave you. Are you really that ignorant that you are going to sit here and ask me to BOLD the part that is already given to you?

Sorry, you are right, that isn't ignorance its just down right lazy.

 

[Lazyman]

Holy fucking christ, do you really want me to post every single part of the PDF because you are too lazy to read it yourself?

THE INFO IS IN THERE. Its DEFINED in the quote I gave you. Are you really that ignorant that you are going to sit here and ask me to BOLD the part that is already given to you?

Sorry, you are right, that isn't ignorance its just down right lazy.

Lose the attitude, your link 404's.

The text you posted only says posession, NOT QUANTITIES. Or did you not read your own data? As I posted earlier, posession of small quantities won't get you sent to jail already.

Or do you think posession of a quarter zip gets you years in State prison?

Of course I don't want people in jail for weed, but you guys that think that prison doors are gonna open and a million people are gonna be freed are KIDDING yourselves! It's simply NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Medmaker, yes I agree it would be nice to reduce the hassle from the cops, and if it works out that way I'm gonna be glad. But don't you think you should be prepared in case life doesn't work out the way you planned?

 

[nomaad]

What it will do is kill the market for illegal sales.

If i undertand the context of this statement, i disagree completely. 90% (for the sake of argument) of the marijuana grown in california leaves the state. This is the true black market. The market for illegal sales grows as out of state smokers are emboldened and multiplied because of legalization in california. I do not believe the sky is falling as many would have you believe.

 

[johnnyla]

get a commercial growers license, double or triple production. if the market price even drops by 50% you will be covered.

medical growers will still have their amounts and commercial growers will be able to get commercial growers license. it's definately not the end of the world, unless you are peddling shwag.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

get a commercial growers license, double or triple production. if the market price even drops by 50% you will be covered.

medical growers will still have their amounts and commercial growers will be able to get commercial growers license. it's definately not the end of the world, unless you are peddling shwag.

you assume that commercial grow licenses will be widely available. i bet richard lee has a set number in mind when it comes to that, and it aint large..

 

[Koroz]

Lose the attitude, your link 404's.

The text you posted only says posession, NOT QUANTITIES. Or did you not read your own data? As I posted earlier, posession of small quantities won't get you sent to jail already.

Or do you think posession of a quarter zip gets you years in State prison?

Of course I don't want people in jail for weed, but you guys that think that prison doors are gonna open and a million people are gonna be freed are KIDDING yourselves! It's simply NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

Medmaker, yes I agree it would be nice to reduce the hassle from the cops, and if it works out that way I'm gonna be glad. But don't you think you should be prepared in case life doesn't work out the way you planned?

I won't lose the attitude because you are lazy, misinformed and spreading false truths. That link took me 30 seconds to find with google.

The reason the link 404's is because there is a space in the filename, remove it and it will work, done on purpose I should have made that clear when I pasted it I guess.

 

[Koroz]

If i undertand the context of this statement, i disagree completely. 90% (for the sake of argument) of the marijuana grown in california leaves the state. This is the true black market. The market for illegal sales grows as out of state smokers are emboldened and multiplied because of legalization in california. I do not believe the sky is falling as many would have you believe.

Can you please provide links to sources for that information?

I personally know 6-7 large scale growers in California that grow for illegal profit. I am talking multi-house grow ops. Not one of them ships outside of California because it isn't worth the risk.

They get MAYBE a grand or two more per pound. The truth is that the majority of large scale growers are keeping it in California because the market still pushes 50-60 bucks an eight, 40 bucks for "friend prices". The Medical Cannabis market has done ZERO to change the illegal trade in California, I have been smoking pot from the late 80's to when I moved from Cali in 06. The prices have not changed really since then to now. There is no reason for the market to outsource when the risk vs reward isn't garnering you more then a 1-5 dollars more a gram.

If you have actual numbers backed up with facts I will agree I was wrong, but from personal experience I just don't see this as "truth".

 

[nomaad]

you assume that commercial grow licenses will be widely available. i bet richard lee has a set number in mind when it comes to that, and it aint large..

safe bet.

 

[Lazyman]

I won't lose the attitude because you are lazy, misinformed and spreading false truths. That link took me 30 seconds to find with google.

The reason the link 404's is because there is a space in the filename, remove it and it will work, done on purpose I should have made that clear when I pasted it I guess.

Ok, I can be an asshole too. I read your pdf. Top to bottom, and the reason you can't answer my question is because your report DOES NOT ADDRESS QUANTITIES. Apparently you've never learned the difference between arrests and imprisonment.

Sure, lots of folks get arrested. Then they pay their $100 fine and go home. So I guess the state will lose that income and cops will stop draggin people to the police station to pay their fines and get into the system.

So where is the prison population that will be released when TC2010 passes eh? What segment do you think will be freed?